Hiei vs Lugia

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lugia finds out that Hiei's Dragon of the Darkness Flame destroyed Brass Tower. Who wins?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

bump

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

lugia i think..

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Lugia can use rain dance to lower the power of Hiei's flames, and then heals his wounds with recover while attacking Hiei, making Hiei the only taking any real damage.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Hiei is faster and more haxxed he wins

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

how fast is Hiei?

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Lugia can use rain dance to lower the power of Hiei's flames, and then heals his wounds with recover while attacking Hiei, making Hiei the only taking any real damage.

Water can not simply put out flames above the temperature of 2000 degrees.

 

[Cropfist]

Lugia for Kami's reasons.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Doesn't darkness destroy psychic types? If so mismatch.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Lugia can use rain dance to lower the power of Hiei's flames, and then heals his wounds with recover while attacking Hiei, making Hiei the only taking any real damage.

Water can not simply put out flames above the temperature of 2000 degrees.

I never said it would put hem out, only weaken them.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Lugia can use rain dance to lower the power of Hiei's flames, and then heals his wounds with recover while attacking Hiei, making Hiei the only taking any real damage.

Water can not simply put out flames above the temperature of 2000 degrees.

I never said it would put hem out, only weaken them.

Water evaporates near 100 degrees... Just the heat will vaporize any droplets near his radius just saying.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

People forget Lugia has Psychic powers and can just redirect the flames back at Hiei.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

People forget Lugia has Psychic powers and can just redirect the flames back at Hiei.

The black dragon cannot be easily manipulated. As stated, he mastered the black dragon. Hiei is impervious to the Dragon much less normal flames. On top of that Hiei's Jaganshi form has Psychokinesis so which is similar to Lugia's psychokinesis. What's even worse is Hiei can absorb his own flames to add to his power. On top of that Hiei's Jagan eye gives him Clairvoyance which will more easily allow him to avoid Lugia's attacks.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well here are the reasons I think Lugia wins.

1) Slightly higher Ap due to the "At least" in front of his 6-B.

2) Can increase his AP and Durability with Calm Mind

3) Being a Legendary Psychic-type Lugia's Mind powers are easily above Hiei's.

4) Lugia has a flight advantage,

5) Lugia can heal himself.

6) Lugia will do more damage with Punishment if Hiei gets a stat buff.

7) He can trap Hiei in a Country level whirlpool.

8) Safeguard protects him from burning

9) Water moves can hurt Magcargo who is 18,000 ┬░F (10,000 ┬░C) so I doubt Lugia's water will be ineffective on the Dragon Flame.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Well here are the reasons I think Lugia wins.
1) Slightly higher Ap due to the "At least" in front of his 6-B.

2) Can increase his AP and Durability with Calm Mind

3) Being a Legendary Psychic-type Lugia's Mind powers are easily above Hiei's.

4) Lugia has a flight advantage,

5) Lugia can heal himself.

6) Lugia will do more damage with Punishment if Hiei gets a stat buff.

7) He can trap Hiei in a Country level whirlpool.

8) Safeguard protects him from burning

9) Water moves can hurt Magcargo who is 18,000 ┬░F (10,000 ┬░C) so I doubt Lugia's water will be ineffective on the Dragon Flame.

"1) Slightly higher Ap due to the "At least" in front of his 6-B."

I have a calc that makes Hiei Likely Small Continental but it wasn't regarded as canon, although it should have been... "At least" Is arbitrary, give me a calc that gives an extent of how much more powerful he is in comparison to Hiei.

"2) Can increase his AP and Durability with Calm Mind"

Hiei can change his attack to physical via the Sword of the Darkness Flame.

"3) Being a Legendary Psychic-type Lugia's Mind powers are easily above Hiei's."

Hiei's Jagan eye which translates to Evil eye will literally control Lugia since it's literally the typing Lugia is weak against. And his hypnosis prevents your no.5.

"4) Lugia has a flight advantage"

Hiei has fought Bui who had flight and that made no difference, to be honest. The flame can attack flight users.

"6) Lugia will do more damage with Punishment if Hiei gets a stat buff."

Hiei will not need a stat boost... The Black Dragon is a super effective hit. To be fair, Lugia wouldn't be aware of his stat boost anyway. To further the point, it would be redundant in comparison to its STAB special attacks from its base stats. And the absorption of the Darkness Flame itself substantially improves AP and Dura, also.

"7) He can trap Hiei in a Country level whirlpool."

A scan/calc for this statement would be much appreciated if in the manga. Never saw such a feat from a whirlpool by Lugia. Lugia's best psychokinesis feat was Class K so I doubt he could use something like this.

"8) Safeguard protects him from burning"

Safeguard will not protect Lugia from the black dragon at all. Nor will prevent the flames from dealing damage.

"9) Water moves can hurt Magcargo who is 18,000 ┬░F (10,000 ┬░C)" so I doubt Lugia's water will be ineffective on the Dragon Flame." You're completely mistaken with the two principles here. Magcargo's temperature From the Alpha Sapphire Pokedex: Magcargo's body temperature is approximately 18,000 degrees F. Water is vaporized on contact. If this Pokémon is caught in the rain, the raindrops instantly turn into steam, cloaking the area in a thick fog. (Sapphire) Hiei can generate at least 4.184x1021 Joules which is far superior Magcargo's stats. Furthermore, Hiei's casual low-end temperature was 3000 at town level... Hiei's capability to vaporize water would be far greater than Magcargo's.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Lugia via reasons above on top of a massive experience gap.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

1) Look on the files to get your calc. There is a reason we have files y'know. It has been discussed in may vs threads that the "At least" is slightly higher than the normal tier. Also your feat is not accepted and thus is irrelevant to this fight.

2) Remember We don't use game stats. When I say stats I mean AP and Durability.

6) How is Black Dragon supereffective? It isn't a dark type move it is fire in which is neutral. Also Rain Dance has the property of weakening fire attacks. Again we do not use Game stats here. Stop using them.

7) This is AP not Lifting Strength Whirpool is an attack that translates into AP so all of Lugia's attacks are "At least Country level"

8) Never said that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Going with Lugia for reasons above but it wont be easy

 

[Typhlosion130]

Lugia for reasons stated above.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

1) Look on the files to get your calc. There is a reason we have files y'know. It has been discussed in may vs threads that the "At least" is slightly higher than the normal tier. Also your feat is not accepted and thus is irrelevant to this fight.
2) Remember We don't use game stats. When I say stats I mean AP and Durability.

6) How is Black Dragon supereffective? It isn't a dark type move it is fire in which is neutral. Also Rain Dance has the property of weakening fire attacks. Again we do not use Game stats here. Stop using them.

7) This is AP not Lifting Strength Whirpool is an attack that translates into AP so all of Lugia's attacks are "At least Country level"

8) Never said that.

1) Until the verse gets its upgrades we can't be sure. "Slightly higher" is still unquantifiable; thus, it's difficult to say if it would make a significant difference or not.

6) The technique is typically called the Dragon of the Darkness Flame.

7) How has Lugia generated a whirlpool of this?

8) It's irrelevant to the fight in that case because there is only one outcome of the "Immolation" flames.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

1) It is an advantage whether you agree or not. Upgrades? What upgrades? "At least" is a slight advantage end of story. But slight I mean Lugia does like a little more damage. Meaning Lugia's AP will overpower Hiei's.

6) Not a pokemon move so we can't even quantify it into a type.

7) Look up whirlpool. He can create storms with a flap of his wings. Whirlpool can be a giant literal whirlpool summoned by Lugia. If in water Lugia can create a twister of water. He can do this casually.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Heck Lugia also has the speed advantage.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

1) It is an advantage whether you agree or not. Upgrades? What upgrades? "At least" is a slight advantage end of story. But slight I mean Lugia does like a little more damage. Meaning Lugia's AP will overpower Hiei's.
6) Not a pokemon move so we can't even quantify it into a type.

7) Look up whirlpool. He can create storms with a flap of his wings. Whirlpool can be a giant literal whirlpool summoned by Lugia. If in water Lugia can create a twister of water. He can do this casually.

1) From early Yu Yu some of the characters are being upgraded to at least mach 700 and most people agree with calc but not enough input is being put into the blog. My last thread was disregarded but I do feel I'll resume to it again in due time

7) I'm aware of this. I'm p sure that comes from the from the Island level feat.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

I presume..

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

1) Well his speed isn't that high as of now so use what is on the files. Also what blog?

7) Do you understand how AP works? Lugia's whirlpools can reach this level of power due to Lugia's AP. Nothing more nothing less. Whirlpool is not stuck at island level.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

1) Well his speed isn't that high as of now so use what is on the files.
7) Do you understand how AP works? Lugia's whirlpools can reach this level of power due to Lugia's AP. Nothing more nothing less. Whirlpool is not stuck at island level.

That's Lugia not generating the whirlpools by himself this case. It would require an island in that case to cause this whirlpool.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Whirlpool is a Pokemon Move that hurles a whirlpool at the target as shown with Dawn's Piplup. Pokemon Moves translate with the Pokemon AP. Country level Lugia uses a Country level whirlpool attack. Stop ignoring the facts because it is ticking me off.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, the calc that puts Lugia at country level is actually on the lower end of 6-B, though I can't find a calc for Hiei so I'm not sure how they compare in power. Also not really sure how the speed compares either. But in terms of skill and powers, I'm actually leaning more towards Hiei.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well, the calc that puts Lugia at country level is actually on the lower end of 6-B, though I can't find a calc for Hiei so I'm not sure how they compare in power. Also not really sure how the speed compares either. But in terms of skill and powers, I'm actually leaning more towards Hiei.

Lugia is Mach 278.

Hiei is Mach 102

Also how does hiei have more skills and powers? Lugia has more versatility and more powerful Psychic powers.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Yikes, that is a pretty huge speed disparity. I'll have to change to Lugia.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Well, the calc that puts Lugia at country level is actually on the lower end of 6-B, though I can't find a calc for Hiei so I'm not sure how they compare in power. Also not really sure how the speed compares either. But in terms of skill and powers, I'm actually leaning more towards Hiei.

Lugia is Mach 278.
Hiei is Mach 102

Also how does hiei have more skills and powers? Lugia has more versatility and more powerful Psychic powers.

Lugia is actually stated at least 278

A true value was never given for Hiei.

Hiei's Jagan eye can turn humans into demons under his control.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Lugia is neither human nor a demon.

Also Hiei's speed scales from Yusuke who is only 102

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Technically speaking, a demon can be a pokemon. Im 50/50 when it comes to that argument

A demon can be of only one part of the pokemon species, which can be in many forms such as animals, fossilized dinosaurs, aliens and even straight up deities. A demon being classified a pokemon is hardly surprising

That said, I dont think Hiei's Jagan eye can control Lugia as, due to its profound nature, might be something under Dark Type and in the worst case Scenerio Lugia can just negate Hiei's hax using Safeguard.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Demons would likely be Pokemon based off of Oni, Dark types or ghost types. Lugia is just a Water Dragon/God... Who is not a Water type. DESPITE BEING THE DIVING POKEMON!!!!!

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Demons would likely be Pokemon based off of Oni, Dark types or ghost types. Lugia is just a Water Dragon/God...

Oh u meant just Lugia specifically? Kk nvm i agree with u

Also nah he's clearly a SEA MONSTER! xD

• Spongebob voice*

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

I was going to say the Japanese name for Dark type was Evil type which is literally the Translation for Jagan but I'll postpone the argument for now.

 

[Typhlosion130]

I was going to say the Japanese name for Dark type was Evil type which is literally the Translation for Jagan but I'll postpone the argument for now.

Yea, but if you look at most of the dark type moves. they gennerall have to do with, well darkness. shadows. manipulation of such or just dark energy.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

1) Look on the files to get your calc. There is a reason we have files y'know. It has been discussed in may vs threads that the "At least" is slightly higher than the normal tier. Also your feat is not accepted and thus is irrelevant to this fight.
2) Remember We don't use game stats. When I say stats I mean AP and Durability.

6) How is Black Dragon supereffective? It isn't a dark type move it is fire in which is neutral. Also Rain Dance has the property of weakening fire attacks. Again we do not use Game stats here. Stop using them.

7) This is AP not Lifting Strength Whirpool is an attack that translates into AP so all of Lugia's attacks are "At least Country level"

8) Never said that.

6) You're completely wrong here. In Pokemon it has been proven on multiple occasions in the anime and even in the games that just the elements can affect the Pokemon. E.g. How Charmander nearly died in the rain. And natural rain without rain dance can effect fire type moves and whatnot. The examples go on...

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

I was going to say the Japanese name for Dark type was Evil type which is literally the Translation for Jagan but I'll postpone the argument for now.

Yea, but if you look at most of the dark type moves. they gennerall have to do with, well darkness. shadows. manipulation of such or just dark energy.

It has been proven just the presence of the weakness can cause Pokemon physical incapacitation or even fear..