Help needed with The Dark Tower revisions

[Overlord775]

he only says turtle in the singular not turtles in the plural when he talks about the actual reality tho

 

[Overlord775]

Also nothing about the infinite turtle implies infinite trascendence, just infinite finite increese in size

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

But the higher turtles are to Maturin what he is to the multiverse

 

[Overlord775]

Nothing implies that, the turtles below just support the relativelly smaller turtle above

also we don't rate Maturin because of him having the tower on his back, but because he exists in a timeless and spaceless void, otherwise he would probably be rated High 1.B

also isn't that turtle stack thing contradicted by every showing of the cosmic structure ?

 

[Twellas]

Nothing implies that, the turtles below just support the relativelly smaller turtle above
also we don't rate Maturin because of him having the tower on his back, but because he exist in a timeless and voidless space, otherwise he would probably be rated High 1.B

also isn't that turtle stack thing contradicted by every showing of the cosmic structure ?

exactly, if we really want to go with this "multiple turtles" thing, at least we have to say that Maturin is on top, because it's explicitely stated multiple times that it carries the Beam on its back

 

[Antvasima]

So should we adjust Gan to At least 1-A for the time being, if we simply know that he greatly transcends Maturi and Pennywise (Canon)?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Hmmmm I'm not sure. The turtles thing I still think is 1-A+ and Aeyu said there's better stuff in Talisman.

 

[Antvasima]

Is it proven that your interpretation of a turtle hierarchy is correct?

 

[Ercosore]

Speaking of the turtles, I have a question. Currently Maturin and Pennywise are rated as 1-A because they exist in the void outside the dark tower, the thing is, I am pretty sure under the new system just existing there isn´t enough anymore to have that tier, they have to affect that void in some way. Is there more context on the way those two interact with the void?

 

[Twellas]

just existing was never enough, not even under the previous system, I honestly have no idea how these ratings have been accepted, especially Gan's tier 0.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask Ultima Reality and Sera EX to comment here please?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Speaking of the turtles, I have a question. Currently Maturin and Pennywise are rated as 1-A because they exist in the void outside the dark tower, the thing is, I am pretty sure under the new system just existing there isn´t enough anymore to have that tier, they have to affect that void in some way. Is there more context on the way those two interact with the void?

Existing within something is meaningless, but Transcending something does qualify for a tier, and

" Now the mind of the writer's wife was with It, in It, beyond the end of the macroverse; in the darkness beyond the Turtle; in the outlands beyond all lands. She was in Its eye; she was in Its mind. She was in the deadlights."

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I'll admit tier 0 Gan is questionable but 1-A Maturin and pennywise is pretty solid

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

If Gan genuinely completely transcends such a hierarchy of 1-A beings, he would likely be High 1-A though. However, if he only transcends one such turtle, he would at best be "At least 1-A", and that would be very generous.

Gan transcends Maturin and Pennywise. They are less than a mote of dust in his mind.

 

[Twellas]

yeah, and 1 level of transcendence over a barely above baseline was never even close to being 0, even on the previous system. Add on that the fact that Maturin and It don't have 1-A feats because existing in an outerversal realm is not enough to be classified as 1-A

 

[Twellas]

Speaking of the turtles, I have a question. Currently Maturin and Pennywise are rated as 1-A because they exist in the void outside the dark tower, the thing is, I am pretty sure under the new system just existing there isn´t enough anymore to have that tier, they have to affect that void in some way. Is there more context on the way those two interact with the void?

Existing within something is meaningless, but Transcending something does qualify for a tier, and
" Now the mind of the writer's wife was with It, in It, beyond the end of the macroverse; in the darkness beyond the Turtle; in the outlands beyond all lands. She was in Its eye; she was in Its mind. She was in the deadlights."

Yeah, IT lives in a "outland beyond all lands" that is "beyond the end of the marcoverse". It's still nothing more than an "existing within" feat

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

yeah, and 1 level of transcendence over a barely above baseline was never even close to being 0, even on the previous system. Add on that the fact that Maturin and It don't have 1-A feats because existing in an outerversal realm is not enough to be classified as 1-A

Trascending a strucuture like the dark tower makes you 1-A at least. And Maturin and Pennywise both do that.

ZacharyGrossman has already proven that as well.

 

[Twellas]

yeah, and 1 level of transcendence over a barely above baseline was never even close to being 0, even on the previous system. Add on that the fact that Maturin and It don't have 1-A feats because existing in an outerversal realm is not enough to be classified as 1-A

Trascending a strucuture like the dark tower makes you 1-A at least. And Maturin and Pennywise both do that.
ZacharyGrossman has already proven that as well.

this sure as hell isn't on their profiles, which only state that they "Exist outside of the Dark Tower in a void which lacks physicality/direction"

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

yeah, and 1 level of transcendence over a barely above baseline was never even close to being 0, even on the previous system. Add on that the fact that Maturin and It don't have 1-A feats because existing in an outerversal realm is not enough to be classified as 1-A

Trascending a strucuture like the dark tower makes you 1-A at least. And Maturin and Pennywise both do that.
ZacharyGrossman has already proven that as well.

this sure as hell isn't on their profiles, which only state that they "Exist outside of the Dark Tower in a void which lacks physicality/direction"

Maturin carries the entire Tower on his back, he's way larger than the tower itself.

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

"Gan bore the world and moved on," Roland replied. "Is that what you mean to say?" "Aye, and the world would have fallen into the abyss if not for the great turtle. Instead of falling, it landed on his back."

From Song of Susannah

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

And I don't know if it makes any difference but a single universe in the Dark Tower contains another endless amount of universes.

Like an atom from a single universe contains another universe and so on. It's a chain of infinity.

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

"Or one might take the tip of the pencil and magnify it. One reaches the point where a stunning realization strikes home: The pencil tip is not solid; it is composed of atoms which whirl and revolve like a trillion demon planets. What seems solid to us is actually only a loose net held together by gravity. Viewed at their actual size, the distances between these atoms might become league, gulfs, aeons. The atoms themselves are composed of nuclei and revolving protons and electrons. One may step down further to subatomic particles. And then to what? Tachyons? Nothing? Of course not. Everything in the universe denies nothing; to suggest an ending is the one absurdity.

"If you fell outward to the limit of the universe, would you find a board fence and signs reading DEAD END? No. You might find something hard and rounded, as the chick must see the egg from the inside. And if you should peck through the shell (or find a door), what great and torrential light might shine through your opening at the end of space? Might you look through and discover our entire universe is but part of one atom on a blade of grass? Might you be forced to think that by burning a twig you incinerate an eternity of eternities? That existence rises not to one infinite but to an infinity of them?

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

And Maturin created one universe by accident.

"Imagine the sand of the Mohaine Desert, which you crossed to find me, and imagine a trillion universes - not worlds by universes - encapsulated in each grain of that desert; and within each universe an infinity of others. We tower over these universes from our pitiful grass vantage point; with one swing of your boot you may knock a billion billion worlds flying off into darkness, a chain never to be completed.

A desert already contains an endless amount of universes.

 

[Twellas]

yeah, and 1 level of transcendence over a barely above baseline was never even close to being 0, even on the previous system. Add on that the fact that Maturin and It don't have 1-A feats because existing in an outerversal realm is not enough to be classified as 1-A

Trascending a strucuture like the dark tower makes you 1-A at least. And Maturin and Pennywise both do that.
ZacharyGrossman has already proven that as well.

this sure as hell isn't on their profiles, which only state that they "Exist outside of the Dark Tower in a void which lacks physicality/direction"

Maturin carries the entire Tower on his back, he's way larger than the tower itself.

a-and? That's not proof of being 1-A

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

yeah, and 1 level of transcendence over a barely above baseline was never even close to being 0, even on the previous system. Add on that the fact that Maturin and It don't have 1-A feats because existing in an outerversal realm is not enough to be classified as 1-A

Trascending a strucuture like the dark tower makes you 1-A at least. And Maturin and Pennywise both do that.
ZacharyGrossman has already proven that as well.

this sure as hell isn't on their profiles, which only state that they "Exist outside of the Dark Tower in a void which lacks physicality/direction"

Maturin carries the entire Tower on his back, he's way larger than the tower itself.

a-and? That's not proof of being 1-A

He transcends Tower, that's at least Low 1-A.


btw have you read Dark Tower?

 

[Twellas]

yeah, currently reading the 4th book, no cosmic stuff as of yet besides the mumbo jumbo at the end of the first book, which is why I'm not arguing about the validity of these claims, but how they apply to the tiering system, which doesn't require knowledge about the books to do.

Being physically larger than a construct doesn't mean you transcend it and is barely a High 1-B feat (the tower is high 1-B on the wiki) in this case

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

yeah, currently reading the 4th book, no cosmic stuff as of yet besides the mumbo jumbo at the end of the first book, which is why I'm not arguing about the validity of these claims, but how they apply to the tiering system, which doesn't require knowledge about the books to do.
Being physically larger than a construct doesn't mean you transcend it and is barely a High 1-B feat (the tower is high 1-B on the wiki) in this case

The Tower should be above High 1-B as well in my opinion.

We can make Maturin 2-C for all I care then.

 

[Planck69]

Don't have too much of an opinion about Maturin and Pennywise's tier (1-A+ is w*nk of de highest oda) but Low 1-A seems fine if we can't find explicit stuff of them being superior to and above every possible expansion of the Dark Tower's hierarchy. And honestly this is giving them the benefit of the doubt since if Maturin is physically carrying the Dark Tower multiverse on his back then that's just a higher degree of High 1-B.

Gan sure as hell ain't Tier 0 tho. At best he's At least 1-A now.

 

[Twellas]

the fact is that Gan should have NEVER been tier 0, he only has 1 level of transcendence over It and Maturin, it's honestly a mystery to me how that change passed

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

There's also Insomnia that states that there are levels that transcend the physical multiverse of the darkt tower.

That being said I'm too tired to continue arguing on this website.

 

[Planck69]

There's also Insomnia that states that there are levels that transcend the physical multiverse of the darkt tower.
That being said I'm too tired to continue arguing on this website.

Do you have the link or scan for that quote on you by any chance?

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

There's also Insomnia that states that there are levels that transcend the physical multiverse of the darkt tower.
That being said I'm too tired to continue arguing on this website.

Do you have the link or scan for that quote on you by any chance?

Clotho: [Be content with this: beyond the Short-Time levels of existence and the Long-Time levels on which Lachesis, Atropos, and I exist, there are yet other levels. These are inhabited by creatures we could call All-Timers, beings which are either eternal or so close to it as to make no difference.

Short-Timers and Long-Timers live in overlapping spheres of existence-on connected floors of the same building, if you like-ruled by the Random and the Purpose. Above these floors, inaccessible to us but very much a part of the same tower Of existence, live other beings.

Some of them are marvelous and wonderful,-others are hideous beyond our ability to comprehend, let alone yours. These beings might be called the Higher Purpose and the Higher Random... or perhaps there is no Random beyond a certain level,we suspect that may be the case, but we have no real way of telling.

We do know that it is something from one of these higher levels that has interested itself in Ed, and that something else from up there made a countermove. That countermove is you, Ralph and Lois.] - Insomnia

 

[Planck69]

Clotho: [Be content with this: beyond the Short-Time levels of existence and the Long-Time levels on which Lachesis, Atropos, and I exist, there are yet other levels. These are inhabited by creatures we could call All-Timers, beings which are either eternal or so close to it as to make no difference.

Short-Timers and Long-Timers live in overlapping spheres of existence-on connected floors of the same building, if you like-ruled by the Random and the Purpose. Above these floors, inaccessible to us but very much a part of the same tower Of existence, live other beings.

Some of them are marvelous and wonderful,-others are hideous beyond our ability to comprehend, let alone yours. These beings might be called the Higher Purpose and the Higher Random... or perhaps there is no Random beyond a certain level,we suspect that may be the case, but we have no real way of telling.

We do know that it is something from one of these higher levels that has interested itself in Ed, and that something else from up there made a countermove. That countermove is you, Ralph and Lois.] - Insomnia

Bruh

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

Clotho: [Be content with this: beyond the Short-Time levels of existence and the Long-Time levels on which Lachesis, Atropos, and I exist, there are yet other levels. These are inhabited by creatures we could call All-Timers, beings which are either eternal or so close to it as to make no difference.

Short-Timers and Long-Timers live in overlapping spheres of existence-on connected floors of the same building, if you like-ruled by the Random and the Purpose. Above these floors, inaccessible to us but very much a part of the same tower Of existence, live other beings.

Some of them are marvelous and wonderful,-others are hideous beyond our ability to comprehend, let alone yours. These beings might be called the Higher Purpose and the Higher Random... or perhaps there is no Random beyond a certain level,we suspect that may be the case, but we have no real way of telling.

We do know that it is something from one of these higher levels that has interested itself in Ed, and that something else from up there made a countermove. That countermove is you, Ralph and Lois.] - Insomnia

Bruh

what

That's not for Pennywise, that's just for showing how big the Tower is

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

how can I get banned from this site

 

[Twellas]

uh? No idea mate

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

uh? No idea mate

ok.

thanks for being friendly though

 

[Planck69]

what

That's not for Pennywise, that's just for showing how big the Tower is

Oh I see, my mistake. Though the quote itself would just solidify High 1-B.

 

[OfficialGilgamesh]

what

That's not for Pennywise, that's just for showing how big the Tower is

Oh I see, my mistake. Though the quote itself would just solidify High 1-B.

ok

I still think Tower is low 1-A. But we don't agree so I won't bother to argue about it anymore.

 

[Twellas]

yeah i also think so, there waas a CRT about that a while ago but it was rejected if I remember correctly