Hell arrives for the detachable hero 2

[Peppersalt43]

Bondage Demon Lady : 7
Lizard Girl : 0
Incon : 0

Starting distance is 30 meters with no line of sight
Speed equalized

 

[Jackythejack]

Soooooooo Helltaker was only able to dodge the chains because he had instinctive reaction.

It would take several hits to kill Setsuna while just one to kill Judgement but also Setsuna is way faster because Judgement's movement speed isn't even a mach it's only her attack speed.

 

[Peppersalt43]

It would take several hits to kill Setsuna while just one to kill Judgement but also Setsuna is way faster because Judgement's movement speed isn't even a mach it's only her attack speed.

Yeah but her chains just pop into existence. I'm not sure a 2x speed advantage is gonna let her blitz that kind of attack

 

[Jackythejack]

Her profile actually implies she's throwing them, not that they're being popped into existence.

Her whole profile comes odd the idea that she's throwing them with telekinesis, not that they just spawn on top of where Helltaker is.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Her whole profile comes odd the idea that she's throwing them with telekinesis, not that they just spawn on top of where Helltaker is.

Wait what? Hang on, let's wait for @LaserPrecision then, they're the one who told me about the creation thing

 

[Jackythejack]

oh nvm that is creation looking at these gifs. If that was the case though I feel that'd make the 8-B calc less valid.

Uh even then it takes one hit to kill Setsuna and multiple to kill Judgement doesn't it. That sounds problematic.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh even then it takes one hit to kill Setsuna and multiple to kill Judgement doesn't it

You mean the other way around?

 

[Jackythejack]

yeah I meant the other way around. It seems funky when she can just walk up to her while tanking these attacks.

I'd assume that the AP gap isn't so high that one chain hit would mess her up.

also fun fact Judgement was one potential candidate for me spamming

 

[LaserPrecision]

To confirm how the chains work, she can SUMMON them, yes, but she can "telekinetically" move said chains she summons to attack. She does this throughout her fight with The Helltaker. She summons chains and then launches them across the screen (You can also see this in the cutscenes where chains spawn in the air and come flying down into the foreground). Thus why she scales to their KE still. Though she can also just spawn them on people.

Problem is, she wouldn't be able to do that here due to the speed gap. Keep in mind, only her CHAINS scale to Mach 3. Or as put earlier, her attack speed.

Herself though? Her combat/reaction speed is only 121.5 m/s. Assuming the opponent is baseline Mach 7 as stated above, that'd make her 19.761x faster. Thus, the opponent would blitz her before she can even summon a chain. So her chains being slower are the least of her concerns. You'd need to equalize their speed for her to even see her opponent. Otherwise, Lizard Girl just kinda stomps no-diff.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Herself though? Her combat/reaction speed is only 121.5 m/s. Assuming the opponent is baseline Mach 7 as stated above, that'd make her 19.761x faster. Thus, the opponent would blitz her before she can even summon a chain. So her chains being slower are the least of her concerns. You'd need to equalize their speed for her to even see her opponent. Otherwise, Lizard Girl just kinda stomps no-diff.

OK, I'll equalize speed then

 

[LaserPrecision]

I should note that attack speed while decreased by the same multiplier would remain as many times faster as Judgement's combat speed after being lowered (But in this case, her combat speed isn't lowered, its Lizard Girl).

This means Judgement's chains can move 10.054x faster than Lizard Girl and her own combat speed in equalized matches. This is why she's a tough character to match

I imagine with speed equalized, she could easily overwhelm Lizard Girl with numerous chains. Though given her regeneration, I don't think hitting her with the chains will be enough (Well, eventually it'd do enough damage to kill, but it would take a while given what Lizard Girl can regen from). Though she's kind of got that covered since she can instead restrain her and melt the flesh from her body.

 

[Peppersalt43]

This is why she's a tough character to match

Huh... Remember the blurb I made in Yor vs Helltaker where I explained that I want to make Loid vs Judgement but couldn't because Judgement's Supersonic+ was faster? I think I'm actually considering it now

I imagine with speed equalized, she could easily overwhelm Lizard Girl with numerous chains. Though given her regeneration, I don't think hitting her with the chains will be enough (Well, eventually it'd do enough damage to kill, but it would take a while given what Lizard Girl can regen from). Though she's kind of got that covered since she can instead restrain her and melt the flesh from her body.

Keep in mind that if her split parts are destroyed in any way, it will regenerate and be ready to be sent back. Ironically it's actually better to just restrain (Like with Spider-Man) since that keeps the parts from coming back for a longer period of time... Not that Judgement would know, I didn't give prior knowledge.

Anyway, here's the dodge feats just so you know what you're going against
https://vsbattles.com/threads/spider-man-vs-the-lizard-but-not-really-2.145364/#post-5261414

 

[LaserPrecision]

Huh... Remember the blurb I made in Yor vs Helltaker where I explained that I want to make Loid vs Judgement but couldn't because Judgement's Supersonic+ was faster? I think I'm actually considering it now

Keep in mind that if her split parts are destroyed in any way, it will regenerate and be ready to be sent back. Ironically it's actually better to just restrain (Like with Spider-Man) since that keeps the parts from coming back for a longer period of time... Not that Judgement would know, I didn't give prior knowledge.

Anyway, here's the dodge feats just so you know what you're going against
https://vsbattles.com/threads/spider-man-vs-the-lizard-but-not-really-2.145364/#post-5261414

I mean, what happens if her parts that aren't split are destroyed?

 

[Peppersalt43]

I mean, what happens if her parts that aren't split are destroyed?

That usually doesn't happen, she just splits her whole body when given the time and with no line of sight, everything is usually scattered

 

[LaserPrecision]

That usually doesn't happen, she just splits her whole body when given the time and with no line of sight, everything is usually scattered

I suppose, but once she gains a line of sight, she can destroy all the scattered pieces and then simply target her main body that is regenerating the split apart pieces. Should be easy to find her opponent given her acrobatics and flight.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I suppose, but once she gains a line of sight, she can destroy all the scattered pieces and then simply target her main body that is regenerating the split apart pieces. Should be easy to find her opponent given her acrobatics and flight.

I'm pretty sure Lizardy doesn't have a main body. Most of the time her parts just reappear somewhere else whenever destroyed due to how scattered she always is. She's even been able to split her head so it's not easy to find

If Judgement somehow destroys all the scattered pieces, she wins. Lizardy's regen is tied to her stamina and if a large portion of her split parts are destroyed, she just passes out. But honestly, I'm not sure how well she can do that, she doesn't have perception assisting abilities like Enhanced Senses or Analytical Prediction (Like the Taker) and have you seen the dodge feats I've linked above?

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm pretty sure Lizardy doesn't have a main body. Most of the time her parts just reappear somewhere else whenever destroyed due to how scattered she always is. She's even been able to split her head so it's not easy to find

If Judgement somehow destroys all the scattered pieces, she wins. Lizardy's regen is tied to her stamina and if a large portion of her split parts are destroyed, she just passes out. But honestly, I'm not sure how well she can do that, she doesn't have perception assisting abilities like Enhanced Senses or Analytical Prediction (Like the Taker) and have you seen the dodge feats I've linked above?

What is considered her "main body" that part is a bit confusing to me.

As for the dodging feats, no I didn't get to it didn't feel like reading a thread

Has she dodged anything comparable to danmaku chains from multitudes of directions at over 10x her own speed on top of chains just magically spawning around herself?

 

[Peppersalt43]

As for the dodging feats, no I didn't get to it didn't feel like reading a thread

It's literally a single comment

Has she dodged danmaku chains from multitudes of directions at over 10x her own speed on top of chains just magically spawning around herself?

It's mostly giant explosions so singular projectiles shouldn't be too problematic. And when you put it that way, you're making me consider unequalizing speed again

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's literally a single comment

Ah, mb. Just looked. Honestly, dodging AoE seems easier than dodged what I described. Heck, I wouldn't even say AoE attacks are inherently harder to dodge. All you need to do is run away from the direction it expands. Far more simple imo than trying to dodge projectiles coming from multiple angles at 10x your own speed.

And when you put it that way, you're making me consider unequalizing speed again

You could, but that just results in Judgement being blitzed like instantaneously the second the match starts since only her chains scale to supersonic+. Judgement would still only have subsonic combat speed.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ah, mb. Just looked. Honestly, dodging AoE seems easier than dodged what I described. Heck, I wouldn't even say AoE attacks are inherently harder to dodge. All you need to do is run away from the direction it expands. Far more simple imo than trying to dodge projectiles coming from multiple angles at 10x your own speed.

It is basically like fighting someone with a gun

I just realized something, does Judgement have feats of shooting blind? Because Lizardy can very well attack from all angles and one part is enough to one-shot her so if she misses even one of those really small parts, she's kinda screwed

 

[LaserPrecision]

It is basically like fighting someone with a gun

I just realized something, does Judgement have feats of shooting blind? Because Lizardy can very well attack from all angles and one part is enough to one-shot her so if she misses even one of those really small parts, she's kinda screwed

Nah, she's never fought blind, but she's not really blind in this fight. I think she'd notice if flying limbs were closing in on her from 30 meters away tho.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Nah, she's never fought blind, but she's not really blind in this fight. I think she'd notice if flying limbs were closing in on her from 30 meters away tho.

Um, they're not limbs, at least not entire ones

Plus I'm more so talking about the problem of being attacked from all directions, not a sneak attack. There's about 50 tiny projectiles to watch out for

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mean if she saw she was being surrounded, she could simply fly up or further away and destroy the limbs while keeping herself safe. Assuming the limbs only regen from the "main body" or smth she'd be able to find out where to target (Though again I'm a bit confused on how this regen works still).

 

[Peppersalt43]

I mean if she saw she was being surrounded, she could simply fly up or further away and destroy the limbs while keeping herself safe. Assuming the limbs only regen from the "main body" or smth she'd be able to find out where to target (Though again I'm a bit confused on how this regen works still).

I suppose that works

I honestly have nothing left at this point, I'll count your vote

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ye, voting for Judgement. I honestly can't think of many good matches for Judgement. I was thinking maybe Hank in a speed equal match or smth.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ye, voting for Judgement. I honestly can't think of many good matches for Judgement. I was thinking maybe Hank in a speed equal match or smth.

Uh, Madness Combat just got nerfed to 9-A

 

[LaserPrecision]

Uh, Madness Combat just got nerfed to 9-A

rip

 

[Jackythejack]

I'm gonna vote for Setsuna. Given the amount of projectiles, regen and the fact that she only needs to one tap Judgement, I think she takes this more likely than not.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm gonna vote for Setsuna. Given the amount of projectiles, regen and the fact that she only needs to one tap Judgement, I think she takes this more likely than not.

I can definitely see the advantages Setsuna has (I even considered incon), but don't you feel her 50 projectiles could easily be countered by simply flying away and shooting and thus destroying them? It is in-character for her to abuse rang and stay out of reach which she does the entire Helltaker fight.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

sigh Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Jackythejack]

tbf that was with a character who couldn't easily get to her and such. I don't know how likely she is to dodge 50 projectiles when we don't see her dodge like...anything really. Esepcially since Setsuna could attack from multiple angles.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[LaserPrecision]

tbf that was with a character who couldn't easily get to her and such. I don't know how likely she is to dodge 50 projectiles when we don't see her dodge like...anything really. Esepcially since Setsuna could attack from multiple angles.

That's fair, that is why I'm considering maybe inconclusive, but I think if Judgement picked up on the limbs flying at her, she'd simply fly up or in any direction that is away from them whilst firing her chains at the limbs, destroying them very quickly (As she can choose where to summon the chain within a over 40 meters range and said chains are 10x faster than the fighters, so it can't really be dodged). So I feel she could retreat from the limbs and keep destroying them until she figures out her actual location and target that.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump