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Heavy JoJo Revisions
- Thread starter Arigarmy
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I think he meant MFTL.
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- #283
Well if he meant MFTL+, and if he really wanted it, the best I'd believe is At least MFTL, but I'm more sticking to MFTL in general. Wall level also seems to be a good spot for what small feats it has. Anyhow, my next post will be relating to Part 8. I just need to gather all of my feats and whatnot, I have an interesting speed feat to present.
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I meant MFTL, not sure where the + is added but i threw it in tgere due to habit, but Geb should be as fast, if not faster than Magicians Red, Heirophant green and Kak, and on the same speed as base star Platinum, it's arguably faster than Pol and Silver chariot also. Basically theres a lot of evidence for triple digit c Geb ( which is what I meant intially). And I'd put Geb a bit over wall, it did damage Jotaro which I think we have at large building, probably wouldn't scale Geb to large building as it was a slicing attack and it wasn't a lot of damage but wall+ would be the absolute minimum.
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>tfw you're the only person in this thread caught up to Part 8
Kira in Part 8 is our gateway to scale city. First, Vitamin C blitzes KQ, and Damo reacts to Soft & Wet before it punches him. Secondly, there's this entire scene that hasn't been calc'd at all. What this can do is apply to Kira's durability, Damo & Yotsuyu's durability, and then Soft & Wet's AP for OHK-ing Damo.
I believe that it is possible for Soft & Wet (and therefore Gappy in reactions) to scale in Vitamin C's speed, because despite having its attacked blocked, it still reacted to and threw punches when Vitamin C attacked (the S&W attack already linked on Damo's reaction statement.) If he wasn't close in speed, Vitamin C would've just slapped its greasy hands on it like it did Killer Queen before it had a chance to strike second (in comparison, KQ tried to strike first), Damo being the person who intercepted the attack.
Kyo's Born This Way's AP isn't known, but its Durability is At least [That Scene] level for its toughness against Soft & Wet's attacks. As for its speed, I suppose the average speed of a speeding motorcycle could suffice (SuperHuman?).
I Am A Rock... I have no idea. Soft & Wet completely overpowered and blitzed it. Suggestions would be helpful. Yotsuyu himself would have an At least [That Scene] level durability (likely higher when turned to Rock; the other Rock Humans should scale on the Rock statement.), and he would probably have At least FTL+ reactions. He also has this weird gimmick of activating his Stand from contact, and then disappearing the instant they look back to see him. He does this several times, one time after tripping and falling. I don't know what to make of this in terms of speed.
Aisho doesn't have much going for him physicallydeath by bus is shameful. Doobie-Wah would probably have a Variable tier (Its sizing depends on how much you exhale) and have Normal Human level speed (It can chase and catch up to Yasuho and Tsurugi when running. It couldn't catch up to a speeding bus, either.). Its durability would likely be Unknow for the fact that it was never defeated, and even when attacked physically, it would simply reappear from somewhere else.
Damo's physicals are the same except for the [That Scene] level durability and At least FTL+ reactions.. Vitamin C has no known AP, same for Dura, so it goes as Unknow. Speed would be At least FTL+.
Joshu is an interesting case. We've never really seen Nut King Call do anything in AP, Dura, or Speed. However, he does possess a speed feat that I will talk about a little later. Hato, like Joshu, has little-to-no feats, but she does possess At least FTL+ combat speed for giving Damo a hell of a time.
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And now we get into the meat of this post, the Joshu feat and Gappy/Josefumi's wacky physicals. In the Shakedown Road arc, Les Feuilles is a Stand that lets you drift at incomprehensible speeds to the point of you not realizing that you've even moved. It does look like teleporting, but it is visualized as movements more than it is as teleporting.
These are movements that are faster than Gappy can react to (but somehow magical phone cameras keep up). What Joshu does is between a transaction is made between a lady and a dealer that swaps two separate bags at these speeds. Before the transaction is made, Joshu pulls some of the leaves next to his legs, and proceeds to take the money and send the bag back to the dealer while having them unaware that the money was stolen all while the bag was moving.
If my information is correct and I didn't mess anything up, that's a "holy **** thats fast" speed rank, and I wouldn't have any idea how fast it is if its beyond Gappy's reactions. I do know that Gappy had sent bubbles to take the money from Joshu, but he had already planted them inside of his clothes before he took the money.
Finally, Josefumi and Gappy have weird physical feats. Despite Soft & Wet barely doing anything to Born this Way in damage, Gappy sends it flying with a kick and detaches the helmet from the force. There's also the A. Phex brothers, who both get attacked from Soft & Wet (and survive), but Gappy does equally the same just from CQC. Josefumi also does this, which makes sense considering they're the same physical person. Outliers, or are they really as strong as their own Stands? I can't really imagine it, but I don't see an old man Joseph destroying my house with one kick but he's labeled as such anyway, so I guess I can hope for the best.
I hope I didn't miss anything on the Part. I just reread it twice to double check for stuff.
EDIT: I messed up on some links on Joshu's feat (I posted the same picture three times in a row and I don't know how.) and fixed them.
Kira in Part 8 is our gateway to scale city. First, Vitamin C blitzes KQ, and Damo reacts to Soft & Wet before it punches him. Secondly, there's this entire scene that hasn't been calc'd at all. What this can do is apply to Kira's durability, Damo & Yotsuyu's durability, and then Soft & Wet's AP for OHK-ing Damo.
I believe that it is possible for Soft & Wet (and therefore Gappy in reactions) to scale in Vitamin C's speed, because despite having its attacked blocked, it still reacted to and threw punches when Vitamin C attacked (the S&W attack already linked on Damo's reaction statement.) If he wasn't close in speed, Vitamin C would've just slapped its greasy hands on it like it did Killer Queen before it had a chance to strike second (in comparison, KQ tried to strike first), Damo being the person who intercepted the attack.
Kyo's Born This Way's AP isn't known, but its Durability is At least [That Scene] level for its toughness against Soft & Wet's attacks. As for its speed, I suppose the average speed of a speeding motorcycle could suffice (SuperHuman?).
I Am A Rock... I have no idea. Soft & Wet completely overpowered and blitzed it. Suggestions would be helpful. Yotsuyu himself would have an At least [That Scene] level durability (likely higher when turned to Rock; the other Rock Humans should scale on the Rock statement.), and he would probably have At least FTL+ reactions. He also has this weird gimmick of activating his Stand from contact, and then disappearing the instant they look back to see him. He does this several times, one time after tripping and falling. I don't know what to make of this in terms of speed.
Aisho doesn't have much going for him physically
Damo's physicals are the same except for the [That Scene] level durability and At least FTL+ reactions.. Vitamin C has no known AP, same for Dura, so it goes as Unknow. Speed would be At least FTL+.
Joshu is an interesting case. We've never really seen Nut King Call do anything in AP, Dura, or Speed. However, he does possess a speed feat that I will talk about a little later. Hato, like Joshu, has little-to-no feats, but she does possess At least FTL+ combat speed for giving Damo a hell of a time.
--
And now we get into the meat of this post, the Joshu feat and Gappy/Josefumi's wacky physicals. In the Shakedown Road arc, Les Feuilles is a Stand that lets you drift at incomprehensible speeds to the point of you not realizing that you've even moved. It does look like teleporting, but it is visualized as movements more than it is as teleporting.
These are movements that are faster than Gappy can react to (but somehow magical phone cameras keep up). What Joshu does is between a transaction is made between a lady and a dealer that swaps two separate bags at these speeds. Before the transaction is made, Joshu pulls some of the leaves next to his legs, and proceeds to take the money and send the bag back to the dealer while having them unaware that the money was stolen all while the bag was moving.
If my information is correct and I didn't mess anything up, that's a "holy **** thats fast" speed rank, and I wouldn't have any idea how fast it is if its beyond Gappy's reactions. I do know that Gappy had sent bubbles to take the money from Joshu, but he had already planted them inside of his clothes before he took the money.
Finally, Josefumi and Gappy have weird physical feats. Despite Soft & Wet barely doing anything to Born this Way in damage, Gappy sends it flying with a kick and detaches the helmet from the force. There's also the A. Phex brothers, who both get attacked from Soft & Wet (and survive), but Gappy does equally the same just from CQC. Josefumi also does this, which makes sense considering they're the same physical person. Outliers, or are they really as strong as their own Stands? I can't really imagine it, but I don't see an old man Joseph destroying my house with one kick but he's labeled as such anyway, so I guess I can hope for the best.
I hope I didn't miss anything on the Part. I just reread it twice to double check for stuff.
EDIT: I messed up on some links on Joshu's feat (I posted the same picture three times in a row and I don't know how.) and fixed them.
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My only refute is that I'm caught up with all of JoJo, want S&W to pulverize those trees in the last chapter since their dura let's them plow through concrete without breaking, itd be a nice boost for s&w potentially. Also just a note, Japan uses a different scale than the Richter scale so itd being a 3 quake isn't actually a tier 3 quake on the Richter scale, if I recall it's decently close though, just mentioning it if someone wants to calc it.
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I remember trying to calc it back when it first happened, there was a bomb that had a similar tremor output that was large building+, of course add tsunami warnings into this and it could get higher. I honestly expect large building or city block if it ever gets accurately calced.
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- #290
We seem to be mostly done with everything here. The only things we need are the Part 8 and Oasis calcs, and some double checks on minor villains.
Death 13, if its AP can only scale from Hierophant Green, would be downgraded to Wall level.
Hol Horse would probably stay at Large Building. As for J. Geil, I don't know what to do with him in terms of AP. Some suggestions could be helpful.
Vanilla Ice is weird. He's labeled as Large Building level for beating Iggy, but Iggy's dura is stated at the same for taking attacks from Vanilla Ice. Maybe just keep him at Small Building level? I don't see a reason for him being Large Building unless something is flying over my head. Cream would probably stay at Large Building level. Pet Shop (and Iggy in general) also suffers the same issues, and it'd be best to get this sorted out before I confuse myself.
Rubber Soul is fine as is. The same goes for Enya the Hag, but just change Justice's durability to Unknow since the stat removes the Large Building statement.
Anubis was already addressed in the OP.
Midler... I don't know. High Priestess could have a Variable tier since its size and power has depended on the minerals surrounding it. It should have Massively FTL stats as well, because it blitzed Joseph and was able to escape before Star Platinum could attack it.
Speaking of High Priestess, I wonder if Hermit Purple can become MFTL from tagging alongside Hierophant Green to catch it from killing Polnareff from the inside.
Devo the Cursed and Alessi are fine as is.
Okuyasu scales to Josuke, so he's fine as a parallel to him. Shigechi seems to be okay as well. Yuya may have to be downgraded to Street level, for it couldn't destroy a printer.
Cioccolata could be Large Building level (It managed to hurt Giorno and punch him and GE away from the helicopter), and that could also give it a Massively FTL statement, but if we can't use that, then it'd still be Hypersonic+ for blitzing Sex Pistols.
And that's it outside of everyone else that was already mentioned. Once we get our concluded stuff and calcs, we can start working on the pages.
Death 13, if its AP can only scale from Hierophant Green, would be downgraded to Wall level.
Hol Horse would probably stay at Large Building. As for J. Geil, I don't know what to do with him in terms of AP. Some suggestions could be helpful.
Vanilla Ice is weird. He's labeled as Large Building level for beating Iggy, but Iggy's dura is stated at the same for taking attacks from Vanilla Ice. Maybe just keep him at Small Building level? I don't see a reason for him being Large Building unless something is flying over my head. Cream would probably stay at Large Building level. Pet Shop (and Iggy in general) also suffers the same issues, and it'd be best to get this sorted out before I confuse myself.
Rubber Soul is fine as is. The same goes for Enya the Hag, but just change Justice's durability to Unknow since the stat removes the Large Building statement.
Anubis was already addressed in the OP.
Midler... I don't know. High Priestess could have a Variable tier since its size and power has depended on the minerals surrounding it. It should have Massively FTL stats as well, because it blitzed Joseph and was able to escape before Star Platinum could attack it.
Speaking of High Priestess, I wonder if Hermit Purple can become MFTL from tagging alongside Hierophant Green to catch it from killing Polnareff from the inside.
Devo the Cursed and Alessi are fine as is.
Okuyasu scales to Josuke, so he's fine as a parallel to him. Shigechi seems to be okay as well. Yuya may have to be downgraded to Street level, for it couldn't destroy a printer.
Cioccolata could be Large Building level (It managed to hurt Giorno and punch him and GE away from the helicopter), and that could also give it a Massively FTL statement, but if we can't use that, then it'd still be Hypersonic+ for blitzing Sex Pistols.
And that's it outside of everyone else that was already mentioned. Once we get our concluded stuff and calcs, we can start working on the pages.
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For Iggy and by proxy pet Shop and Ice calcing Pet Shop's death could get an AP for pet shop, dura for iggy and thus a ap for Ice. Consudering it made a sizeable explosion (depending on whst ya scalecut off) despite being hundreds, if not thousands of feet underwater coukd yeild a decent result for them. High Priestess should get a variable tier considering the fact it has what is potentially the highest raw AP if the calc i did was right (never made a blog but i did post the results in PSI in the last thread) but it also hoess as as low as wall+. On a side note, white album? What do we list its AP and dura as? I think the suit should get something like wall+ (cracked after eating the pavement) or whatever GE has for AP (cracked from GE punching ut) but as for AP, do we jyst go it has AZ and bypasses dura or do we give a number and calc something, since it said he could stop roaring train engines and freze them on the spot maybe that could work?
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On a side note, when Giorno uses the arrow on GE he has a giant hole in his chest, KC also proceeds to hit GE in the head caysing a splatter of blood which is show n on giorno to as his head sprays blood abd his eyes turn white (probably suggesting unconscious) a page later when GER appears the chest and head wound are gone. Us this something thst should be looked at or does GERs infinute speed and life creation/causilty manip cover that.
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Ignoring my typos and such, using a rather old phone, but what dud chariot do? What I meant to say us her instantly healed Giornos punctured chest and caved in skull, SCR didnt heal Pol (truly a sin that can't be forgiven) but I only brought this up just in case, probably just a byproduct of existing powers.
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Nah i figured it was, just wanted a second opinion. Also double checking we have it as CD=KQ (more or less, that can fight for awhile in cqc) right? And we have CD at Ftl because of RHCP and not being a billion times slower than SP on top of KQ reacting to SP (which may or may not work due to Jotaro being pumped full of holes and bleeding out). And Echoes got Kira and KQ with act 3 freeze at the end?
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I suppose that means DIO has MFTL reactions
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DIO should be mFTL, he easily deflects emerald splash and reacted to a pissed off star platinum mid punch by activating time stop (although said punch bypassed his timestop and crushed his skull) Jonathan probably shouldn't scale, didn't we debunk the Part 3 DIO is weaker than part 1 DIO as only his regen is weaker with no mention if his strength or speed? And sorry, haven't been on a pc in like two weeks so I'm using a phone, between typing fast and autocorrect my sentences tend to become jumbled with tons of grammatical issues and spelling errors, I tend to edit my posts afterwards if I notice glaring problems though. Anyway, just wanted to make sure we got the crazy diamond speed correct is essentially what that post boils down to basically.
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- #302
I do agree that Jonathan shouldn't scale from that, it would probably just be reactions anyhow.
Also, this just popped into my head, but Bites the Dust should be MFTL for already entering (specifically Jotaro) the Duwang Gang's eyes when they all tried to gang up on it.
Also, this just popped into my head, but Bites the Dust should be MFTL for already entering (specifically Jotaro) the Duwang Gang's eyes when they all tried to gang up on it.
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I'm not sure about Bites the dust, thing is it's not that they couldn't react to it but rather the fact that they seen it means it's already in their eye and thus can't hit it, like Rohan tried to attack it but couldn't as he was seeing it and because he seen it it was in his eye already.
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Just keep it at lightspeed. But make a note that it's only visible when it's already entered a person's eye and thus untouchable by almost all accounts.
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Someone could theoretically catch BTD if they're ftl, the problem stems from the fact that if ya see it it's too late as it's literally the light entering your eye that allows ya to see it in the first place I guess, correct me if I'm wrong. Basically if ya can sense it or see without relying on light ya coukd technically punch BTD out. As for Iggy yeah that's what I'm talking about, considering it died beneath the river bed and in previous pages ya can see they're actually quite a ways below the surface plus in the folowing panels it actually shows Iggy engulfed in the blue flash before surfacing, basically it could yeild a decent result plus Iggy tanked it point blank and it even bothered showing him engulfed.
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- #312
I don't believe that's a good argument for it, because if it could catch it, it would've prevented it from entering its own eye to begin with.
Also, if you're unable to calc the feat and nobody else is capable of calcing, I guess I can give myself a shoddy try. Nobody's really doing any assistance, but gotta make with what we got. And if comes to show, I'll have to give my own shoddy attempts on Secco and SHA.
But, if even I mess up or can't do it, other vampires are 9-A, which is supported by Speedwagon's research and the Part 1 feat.
Also, if you're unable to calc the feat and nobody else is capable of calcing, I guess I can give myself a shoddy try. Nobody's really doing any assistance, but gotta make with what we got. And if comes to show, I'll have to give my own shoddy attempts on Secco and SHA.
But, if even I mess up or can't do it, other vampires are 9-A, which is supported by Speedwagon's research and the Part 1 feat.
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What? I don't understand what ya mean regarding BTD, not that it matters, FTL and Sol bith have points towards each other.
As for Pet Shop, it's not that I can't calc it, well actually it is I just can't find a formula for underwater explosions. I actually had a lot of it scaled already.
I could attempt SHA.
As for Secco I did attempt that but couldn't figure how to get the result, overall if I recall it was something around 90.5 cubic meters turned liquid as a mid end.
As for Pet Shop, it's not that I can't calc it, well actually it is I just can't find a formula for underwater explosions. I actually had a lot of it scaled already.
I could attempt SHA.
As for Secco I did attempt that but couldn't figure how to get the result, overall if I recall it was something around 90.5 cubic meters turned liquid as a mid end.
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- #314
The reason I presented it as MFTL was for Jotaro and Star Platinum being blitzed by it for it was already in their eyes by the time it tried attacking it. If it was slower, it would've been attacked before it could travel to his eye. Imagine it like how Polnareff attacked Hanged Man. You can't be slower and then expect to get to your destination if they can get to you at speeds hundreds times faster. You'd also be presenting the idea of nerfing CD and The Hand's speed as well if they couldn't tag something that goes at SoL or FTL. Wouldn't it being in your eye regardless of speed make it a NLF?
Also, SHA is really the most important calc we need to determine AP of Soft & Wet. If you wish to attempt it, that'd be on your end. If you're having issues with it, I could try attempting it.
Oh, and most importantly, I spoke to the other JoJo Experts (based on Knowledgeable Members List) that were available on the VS Discord. They think that PHF could cause an inconsistency for if GER existed in PHF canon, it would've been capable of reversing MiH's time acceleration, which is inconsistent with King Crimson. Though that's their arguments (unanimously, BTW.), not mine. The experts I spoke too were AMM, Aku, and Trib, if you were curious.
Also, SHA is really the most important calc we need to determine AP of Soft & Wet. If you wish to attempt it, that'd be on your end. If you're having issues with it, I could try attempting it.
Oh, and most importantly, I spoke to the other JoJo Experts (based on Knowledgeable Members List) that were available on the VS Discord. They think that PHF could cause an inconsistency for if GER existed in PHF canon, it would've been capable of reversing MiH's time acceleration, which is inconsistent with King Crimson. Though that's their arguments (unanimously, BTW.), not mine. The experts I spoke too were AMM, Aku, and Trib, if you were curious.
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Well for BTD theres the fact it was already in their eye by the time they tried attacking it and didn't realize it was in their eye and they were punching the air before quickly realizing their punches were hitting nothing, if I recall, I'll check in a minute if I'm wrong than good, it honestly makes less work.
As for Feedback. Sure GER could have prevented MIH but there 4 counters to that. 1. GER didn't care and didn't deem it a threat to Giorno as GER works outside if Giorno will and Giorno usnt even that aware if the set to zero ability. 2. It did but only prevented itself and Giorno from being effected and left the rest of the universe as is. 3. GER didn't know what the cause was so aka Enrico so it coukdnt snip it at the bud so it only nulled Giorno being effected, essentially point 2. 4. PIS. Theres points towards it being canon and it being noncanon.
As for Feedback. Sure GER could have prevented MIH but there 4 counters to that. 1. GER didn't care and didn't deem it a threat to Giorno as GER works outside if Giorno will and Giorno usnt even that aware if the set to zero ability. 2. It did but only prevented itself and Giorno from being effected and left the rest of the universe as is. 3. GER didn't know what the cause was so aka Enrico so it coukdnt snip it at the bud so it only nulled Giorno being effected, essentially point 2. 4. PIS. Theres points towards it being canon and it being noncanon.
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- #316
>2.It did but only prevented itself and Giorno from being effected and left the rest of the universe as is.
Made in Heaven doesn't affect biological beings, only abiotic things like the landscape (rocks and stuff), clothes, liquids, that stuff. And if it truly did stop the universe from accelerating, it would've reverted it back to before time began to accelerate.
Though PIS can be a good point, but in the end we already have a wall level feat for Purple Haze, which can relay back nicely to Abbachio and MiTM. It may be have to be another day to focus on PHF.
Made in Heaven doesn't affect biological beings, only abiotic things like the landscape (rocks and stuff), clothes, liquids, that stuff. And if it truly did stop the universe from accelerating, it would've reverted it back to before time began to accelerate.
Though PIS can be a good point, but in the end we already have a wall level feat for Purple Haze, which can relay back nicely to Abbachio and MiTM. It may be have to be another day to focus on PHF.
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I'm aware of that, not sure what I was thinking, I guess I was thinking along the lines of asb where Giorno can keep up with Pucci despite MIH clearly effecting the entire universe.
As for another point, is GER even in the novel? As far as i can recall Giorno only ever healed fugo at the end, dont recall his Stand being shown at all but it's rather dubious honestly. Personally im all for PHF being used, if it's not accepted fine but i dont wanna throw it out just yet.
As for another point, is GER even in the novel? As far as i can recall Giorno only ever healed fugo at the end, dont recall his Stand being shown at all but it's rather dubious honestly. Personally im all for PHF being used, if it's not accepted fine but i dont wanna throw it out just yet.
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I was wondering if it is possible to calculate the energy generated by The Sun stand.
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Easily, it did disperse a lot of clouds if I recall and ya could figure out a bare minimum size off said clouds and/or the fact Heirophant green crossed at least 50+ meters into the sky tgen calc the clouf dispersal off the potential size. Doesnt scale to anyone or anything though as far as im aware.
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