Heaven Ascension DIO Changes

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

First of all, I feel this should be obvious, but HA DIO's natural reaction speed should likely be "At least Massively FTL" instead of "At least FTL+". At multiple points throughout the game, he reacts to stands like Star Platinum and Crazy Diamond. The first hit anyone lands on him (Jotaro) is only done through a sucker punch, so it's not like he's shown to be immensely slower than these stands.

Secondly, it should be noted that DIO is not fully subject to paradoxical destruction. He isn't immune to it, but he resists it. When Jotaro uses the main timeline DIO's armlets on HA DIO, it does harm him, but Jotaro notes that his wounds are healing. This doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would happen if DIO wasn't somewhat resistant to paradoxes.

Finally, The World Over Heaven should probably be above Low 2-C via hax. His current Low 2-C is based not only on scaling from GER and Tusk Act 4, but also the assumption that DIO was only creating/altering a single timeline. However, this is heavily suggested to not be the case. During his final fight with Jotaro, DIO explicitly states that "by its very nature, there can only ever be one reality...", which suggests the "reality" he's altering is the entire JoJo multiverse/all timelines as opposed to just one.

This is further supported by HA DIO's victory over Funny Valentine. When DIO erases Valentine, he says, "Funny Valentine... You no longer exist...anywhere." Now anyone who has read Part VII knows that Valentine's Stand allows Valentine to hop between alternate universes and transfer his mind and Stand to the body of another Valentine before returning, essentially allowing him an endless supply of extra lives. DIO's statement of Valentine no longer existing anywhere and his earlier statement about how he never bothered to overwrite him completely because of his potential suggest that when DIO erased Funny Valentine, he did not just overwrite one timeline to have no Funny Valentine, but instead overwrote all timelines with Funny Valentine, completely wiping him out and making D4C useless.

Now the problem here is we don't know how many universes/timelines exist in JoJo, but since Valentine never seemed worried about running out of "lives" and shifted through quite a lot of parallel worlds, I think either "At least 2-C" or "Likely 2-B" would be more accurate for HA DIO's reality overwrite.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Sup.

1) Hmm. Never thought about that. Sounds reasonable enough.

2) Ah really? I was under the impression that he wasn't healing but given that his arms were the only things that were hurt and he was still pretty alright elsewhere...eh. (Shrugs)

3) Oooooooooh......okay, got it. Its been a while and just forgot that he probably would have been higher than Low 2-C.

Just to note on the JJBA multiverse, i think it's 2-B size as Funny Valentine had mentioned of searching through countless worlds just to find another version of Deigo Brando. But that was said to be of a one time thing, though i would like to be corrected of what the actual JJBA-Multiverse size is as it's been quite a while since i last read and finished Part 7.

Everything looks okay to me, overall. Would like further input of this.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, I didn't notice the healing at first either, until I saw that Jotaro mentioned DIO's arm healing and you see a little bit of his flesh start to pop back up from under the blackness.

Ah, I didn't remember that Funny Valentine quote. Good to know.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

I argree with this.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ah that makes sense.....what was point 2 supposed to change for again? I apologize, but i literally forgot ^^; Was it supposed to be giving him a form of resistance or...?

Yeah he said it in this one part when talking to Diego (another world Deigo, of course). It might just be countless parallel worlds if anything.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

2 is just a slight change to his weakness. Just to note that he's not completely immune to paradoxical destruction, but resists it. Being harmed but able to heal is still better than having your arms completely erased.

Good to know.

 

[Der_Purple_Ist_Dank]

All of this sounds alright to me, not much we can really go by in terms of feats for HA DIO so these statements are more than fine imo.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Azzy: Got it.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

Ok what about H.A Dio's range? Multiversal as well or low multiversal?

https://gfycat.com/WanOpulentChinchilla

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Hellspawn

I would assume Multiversal, as he erases Funny Valentine from everywhere, which would require being able to reach all parallel Funny Valentines.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

they seem legit to me in my head

 

[Promestein]

Seems good to me. I think "At least 2-C, possibly higher" would be best? And "At least Multi-Universal, possibly higher" for range?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I also realized it might be important to do some changes to DIO's durability or regen or something.

Another thing I hadn't noticed is that DIO isn't actually killed by Star Platinum. It's hard to tell since its appearance doesn't change, but DIO is actually killed by "Star Platinum Over Heave". This is made clear not only through the fact that SPOH prevents Jotaro from being erased from existence without him activating it, also the fact that SPOH is implied to be the thing that overwrote reality to be better in the ending, as Jotaro, the only one who retains his memories, is already well aware that Kakyoin, Avdol, and Iggy are alive, along with the fact that things also become better for the other JoJos he met (William Zeppeli, Caesar, Shigechi, all good members of Passione, everyone in Part VI, and Gyro all survive in the new reality).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Hmm. I can't seem to find it on one of the manga sites i use to usually read at. I think to be safe, unless someone else can find it, we may have to rate HA DIO's hax as "at least 2-C".

I was just about to ask that about HA DIO's durablity too....

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

At least 2-C seems best, unless someone finds the Funny Valentine page.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It's actually here, but the translation seems to be different as rather than Funny Valentine saying "i've searched countless worlds to find you..." he goes "how many dimensions did i cross?..."

Here. This is the same page he said it in iirc. It might be from that site or another.

About HA DIO's durability, i just never figured if there was anything that actual justified he had much higher durability other than that SP punch Jotaro got him on. At the time i made his page, i was just being cautious and safe. Wasn't downplaying if anyone here thinks, just wasn't sure enough and i probably did overlook stuff and not look at 'em enough.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i kind wondered if it was SPOH then again his arms in the ending were as white as TWOH and that he lived through TWOH's punches but then would we put an extra key for Jotaro or make an EOH page for him?

I prefer at least 2-C possibly 2-B based on Valentine's countless statement but idk

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

At least 2-C, possibly 2-B could work, as even in the alternate translation, Valentine seems exhausted and has lost track of just how many times he has jumped universes.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Mmmm. I just don't quite know what the actual size is anymore. It could be 2-B, i just don't even know anymore as it's been a full year since i was involved on trying to figure out it's multiverse size.

Also, does anyone know if it had infinite worlds by any chance? Just a thought as Saik asked me about that in Skype just now... Edit: Nevrmind~

@Azzy: Yeah that is true there, yeah.

 

[Reppuzan]

1) Seems alright, probably an oversight from the JoJo speed upgrades.

2) Never noticed the healing part, good catch.

3) Also looks alright to me.

Should Jotaro get a Star Platinum Over Heaven tab? Probably not, but I'm just asking.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Rep

Considering the game is non-canon (I assume), he'd likely require a different profile if anything.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Azathoth

That's what I thought. It would be basically the same as mainstream Jotaro, only with the same powers as TWOH. Shouldn't take too long to make.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Rep

Indeed. I sincerely wish SPOH got its own design.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It's really just gonna be the same as the Jotaro page, really.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Jotaro But With Extreme Bullshit"

 

[Reppuzan]

@Azathoth

Just imagine Part IV and VI with a godly Jotaro who's actually a good Dad.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Hwll yeah to that. xD

Is this enough input for ya, Azathoth? Or do you wish to wait for further input? I'm asking this so that we don't forgot about this later on.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

"Jotaro But With Extreme Bullshit"

pretty much reactive evolution i guess because it's twin za warudo got into that state so apparently it followed suit on its own lol (then again it time stopped after prolonged fighting against DIO so eh)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The input seems good, though for clarification, the final Tier we're going for hax-wise is "At least 2-C, possibly 2-B", yes?

Also, what do we do about his durability?

 

[Reppuzan]

@TISSG7

Well, it's explained-away in series that because of the fact that Star Platinum and The World are so similar in range, power, and development potential, Star Platinum was able to learn The World's abilities as they clashed.

It's still a random plot device, but it's not like Jotaro can just copy anyone.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Azathoth

Jotaro's durability would probably remain where it is I think, considering the fact that Heaven's Ascension DIO could still be hurt by base Jotaro and that Newton's Third Law sort of loses its purpose once you reach Tier 2.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

@rep

I was just teasing at the fact that SP and TW will always be neck in neck being two sides of the same coin so their powers will evolve should one of them get hax then the other will also get that hax

The dura is confusing to me cause seems like glass-canon but SPOH and TWOH clashed with the same powers so idk

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It seems more like some kind of thing we need to specify than a straight dura upgrade, as Jotaro needed to gain the Over Heaven ability to overwrite reality to actually kill DIO and release everyone's souls and the corpse parts.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

HA DIO's dura is kind of really complicated, yeah.

 

[Arigarmy]

I just now noticed this topic, but all in all I agree. I had to play some cutscenes just to make sure I actually did miss something.

Jotaro Kujo (Eyes of Heaven) seems kinda useless as a page in itself, but trying to make a set of stats for him just from the sole fact that it came outta nowhere in one of the last scenes of the game is a little hard. I don't think there are really and changes done to SP's stats outside of just now being able to overwrite reality. If it actually does become a page, I won't argue. We have DIEGO with THE WORLD, so there's not much to argue on why we can't have it as a page.

But when do we get that page on Novel Kars from Mars though, I want to put HA DIO to shame with the Passion and three-headed Stand fusions of D4C and Made in Heaven.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Arigarmy

I vaguely remember Novel Kars being a page, but I don't know what happened to it.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

Durability: Unknown with TWOH works?

Also Jotaro needs separate page for Star Platinum TWOH with 2-C or 2-B I guess? Because you know the reason

 

[Arigarmy]

@Rep

It could be possible to make it into a page if it was deleted, I believe, since there's ground and reason to make it. It's just a lot of information to get, starting with the confusing lore and massive hoarde of creepy imagery.


Yeah, creepy.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

Well it could be a second profile and there will be big note saying, not to be confused with real Jotaro or whatever...

Also Novel Kars needs a profile too? lol.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Arigarmy

As long as you justify it properly and give it proper and sensible statistics, there should be no problem.