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Healthy Itachi vs Pain (concluded)

Nelliels said:
Why act as though a jutsu being his strongest and being above him wouldn't account for all stats?


Yea definitely only ap.
Click to expand...
Because that's how it works here, you need evidence to say it amps speed, of which there is none.

No idea how that scan from the databook proves it amps speed.
 
Purgy said:
Then why did you respond to my post about that... We were discussing Pain's ability to react to the Totsuka Blade, so that's what I was referring to.
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Because there's no basis for the Hydra scaling to Weakened Orochimaru? It's an irrelevant point, is what I was trying to say. I don't mind you saying that Pain is faster than Orochimaru, at all. Scaling the Hydra to Weakened Orochimaru is what I took issue with, that's all.
 
Purgy said:
Because that's how it works here, you need evidence to say it amps speed.

No idea how that scan from the databook proves it amps speed.
Click to expand...
The hype for the jutsu should speak for itself as to why it covers all stats, literally says it surpassed orochimaru, and it's his greatest jutsu, why would it only apply to one stat?
 
Nelliels said:
The hype for the jutsu should speak for itself as to why it covers all stats, literally says it surpassed orochimaru, and it's his greatest jutsu, why would it only apply to one stat?
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't.

You need actual evidence, not an opinion.
 
Purgy said:
No, it doesn't.

You need actual evidence, not an opinion.
Click to expand...
My evidence is that it surpassed orochimaru and its his greatest jutsu. This point is really pointless since itachi is faster than pain regardless of this scaling. Idk why this continues given speed advantage itachi has over pain but whatever.
 
Who even started discussing Orochimaru lol? He's like completely irrelevant to this topic. Anyway, we should all stop derailing now.
 
How is Orochimaru "weakened" in the first place? If anything he was superior in his Eight-Headed state since he had his arms back in comparison to Post-Hiruzen fight. How is Jiraiya scaling to Orochimaru and why does it matter if Orochimaru fought an Itachi on the verge of dying.

What about Healthy Itachi>Edo Itachi who kept up with KCM1 Naruto and EMS Sasuke in speed?

SM Naruto is much superior generally after the Pain Arc as we can see in his fight with Kurama.
 
Purgy said:
Far less time than he would have had had the smoke not been there to give Itachi an easy hit.

No, the Paths of Pain don't have individual profiles, only a singular profile so we assume they all share the same speed, what reason is there to believe the paths have different speed anyway?

SM Naruto > SM Jiraiya >>> Base Jiraiya > Weakened Jiraiya = Weakened Orochimaru that was hit by Totsuka Blade

And the paths could somewhat keep up with SM Naruto.
Click to expand...
Doesn't Nagato have sensory abilities? He was able to tell where Kabuto was located after all.

Because the naraka path was blitzed by Konohomaru while the asura path block Kakashi and the deva path slightly kept up with 6 tails Naruto.

That Orochimaru wasn't weakened. Hydra SM Orochimaru is the strongest form of Orochimaru in the series. He's stronger than SM Jiraiya.

Keep up with is a loose term.
LightReinh12345 said:
He will know but after testing some amaterasu which will waste his chakra so my stand still remains
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Itachi's healthy reserves shouldn't be trash enough that one amaterasu use has him strongly affected. He used tsukuyomi twice and amaterasu on the same day in part 1 and was fine.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Shuriken spam and fire style can be countered by shinra tensei preta path asura path and even the summoning path can tank some hits. If itachi directs an assult specifically against one path then he could easily kill one path although that path would just get revived or saved by other paths. Itachi needs the susanoo in this battle he can't without it.
Click to expand...
There is a 5 second gap, during which Itachi can attack. But Deva might be able to dodge. Like I said, it would work against all other than the deva and asura path, so I don't know why you mention that. And the preta path and animal path can't deal with hundreds of shuriken flung rapid fire. Especially the preta path. I don't know why you say the animal path is a tank. She's shown no durability feats other than maybe taking some casual hits from SM Naruto, which is unquantifiable since we don't know how hard those strikes were.
EmperorRorepme said:
How is Orochimaru "weakened" in the first place? If anything he was superior in his Eight-Headed state since he had his arms back in comparison to Post-Hiruzen fight. How is Jiraiya scaling to Orochimaru and why does it matter if Orochimaru fought an Itachi on the verge of dying.

What about Healthy Itachi>Edo Itachi who kept up with KCM1 Naruto and EMS Sasuke in speed?

SM Naruto is much superior generally after the Pain Arc as we can see in his fight with Kurama.
Click to expand...
Do you have a vote? Your second paragraph seems to imply Itachi.
 
Nelliels said:
I'm saying given how smart itachi is I doubt he's gonna be like "oh no what shall I ever do its the king of hell ahhh", no itachi will analyze and deduce which path summoned it and target that path resulting in it's death which stops anymore res. Also Deva path is blocking what? Amaterasu? Totska blade? no he isn't blocking those at all.
Click to expand...
You are saying like itachi can Spam them, stop Deva path & then Kill other pains again then fought Rest of the paths again lol
Yes amaterasu i believe cam be stopped with shinra tensei
With Bashir tensei he cam attract itachi into asura's path machines damaging him
Nah dude i am not seeing that itachi does he even know what king of the hell do?! Even though he is a genius he has to See what the hell it does
This is may be irrelevant but i am a big itachi Fan so guys dont think i am underestimating him
 
GokuSparkle said:
Itachi's healthy reserves shouldn't be trash enough that one amaterasu use has him strongly affected. He used tsukuyomi twice and amaterasu on the same day in part 1 and was fine.
Click to expand...
No he was not fine he was fatigued very much he needed Rest he was sweating & deactivates his sharingan eventually & you are saying like he can Spam tens of amaterasus without any issue
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Finally, I'd like to point out that Itachi's stamina is not nearly as bad as people seem to think. His battle with Sasuke perfectly highlights this:
  • He first had a sparring match with Kisame.
  • Then had a genjutsu battle with Sasuke.
  • Then used Tsukuyomi.
  • Then had a Taijustu battle, before they exchanged several Jutsu.
  • Then he used Amaterasu and covered an absolutely massive area with it. Easily hundreds of meters.
  • He then activated Susano'o to survive Kirin.
  • Then activated it again in order to seal away Hydra Orochimaru.
I genuinely don't understand how you can look at all that and say he has terrible stamina. Keep in mind that, again, he was dying from his illness and likely in great pain the whole time, he was suffering from the after effects of using the Mangekyo and was nearly blind, he was drained from firing off so many Jutsu that require a lot of chakra, and he was fatigued and injured from the battle. Obviously a healthy, fresh, Itachi won't have nearly as many disadvantages, so his stamina will hold up just fine.
Click to expand...
 
LightReinh12345 said:
You are saying like itachi can Spam them, stop Deva path & then Kill other pains again then fought Rest of the paths again lol
Yes amaterasu i believe cam be stopped with shinra tensei
With Bashir tensei he cam attract itachi into asura's path machines damaging him
Nah dude i am not seeing that itachi does he even know what king of the hell do?! Even though he is a genius he has to See what the hell it does
This is may be irrelevant but i am a big itachi Fan so guys dont think i am underestimating him
Click to expand...
If SM Naruto saw the king of hell summoned right after one of the paths revived and figured it out Itachi would have no issues doing the same.

LightReinh12345 said:
No he was not fine he was fatigued very much he needed Rest he was sweating & deactivates his sharingan eventually & you are saying like he can Spam tens of amaterasus without any issue
Click to expand...
You're overexxagerating. He was panting but he wasn't like out of comission or anything. He had enough juice to keep running pretty easily.
 
GokuSparkle said:
If SM Naruto saw the king of hell summoned right after one of the paths revived and figured it out Itachi would have no issues doing the same.


You're overexxagerating. He was panting but he wasn't like out of comission or anything. He had enough juice to keep running pretty easily.
Click to expand...
Except I am not I just said what actually happened his stamina reserve isnt AS high AS pain this is true
Yes but what I am saying one of the path would be revived First
Keep it in mind I am saying both can take this not pain
 
LightReinh12345 said:
You are saying like itachi can Spam them, stop Deva path & then Kill other pains again then fought Rest of the paths again lol
Yes amaterasu i believe cam be stopped with shinra tensei
With Bashir tensei he cam attract itachi into asura's path machines damaging him
Nah dude i am not seeing that itachi does he even know what king of the hell do?! Even though he is a genius he has to See what the hell it does
This is may be irrelevant but i am a big itachi Fan so guys dont think i am underestimating him
Click to expand...
Itachi can spam put out large amounts of ama spreading large areas, that is what I'm saying, also you guys seem to ignore this but only sick itachi did this feat, a healthy one would do far more and be better at it. Yes amaterasu can be stopped by shinra tensei after it gets placed on the path, and we saw how quick it defeated nagato in edo so I think it would do even greater damage to a regular weak path. I said itachi will analyze and deduce which path summoned the king of hell which will prompt him to attack that one after seeing it res another path. I said this before as well.
Nelliels said:
I'm saying given how smart itachi is I doubt he's gonna be like "oh no what shall I ever do its the king of hell ahhh", no itachi will analyze and deduce which path summoned it and target that path resulting in it's death which stops anymore res. Also Deva path is blocking what? Amaterasu? Totska blade? no he isn't blocking those at all.
Click to expand...
 
LightReinh12345 said:
Except I am not I just said what actually happened his stamina reserve isnt AS high AS pain this is true
Yes but what I am saying one of the path would be revived First
Keep it in mind I am saying both can take this not pain
Click to expand...
It's not as high, but it's enough.
EmperorRorepme said:
Yeah Itachi
Click to expand...
alright well you posted your message at 6:42 yesterday so in 5 hours grace will be over and this can be added
 
er...so since Itachi has a loss to Pain when he was considered sick, should that battle be removed, or should his win mention he was healthy and his loss mention he's sick?
 
GokuSparkle said:
er...so since Itachi has a loss to Pain when he was considered sick, should that battle be removed, or should his win mention he was healthy and his loss mention he's sick?
Click to expand...
Not sure tbh. (Though tbh, his loss should probably be removed in general because the arguments in that thread were horrible, and some were just outright incorrect)
 
We see what alive healthy itachi is capable of while in edo. If you think edo is a nerf which is widely accepted then that means we saw a weaker healthy itachi still performing better than sick. Regardless of having endless chakra or what have you itachi still showed just how much of an amp having a healthy heart made him.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
I don't think alive itachi can beat pain, he'd just get a heart attack after using his susanoo and he'd be way weaker than pain.
Click to expand...
 
GokuSparkle said:
uh didn't you vote Itachi already?
Click to expand...
Nelliels said:
We see what alive healthy itachi is capable of while in edo. If you think edo is a nerf which is widely accepted then that means we saw a weaker healthy itachi still performing better than sick. Regardless of having endless chakra or what have you itachi still showed just how much of an amp having a healthy heart made him.
Click to expand...
No you misunderstand I mean sick itachi the one sasuke fought, he gets clapped by pain.
 
No he'd literally get clapped, he is scaled below base jiraiya and if he uses his susanoo which is his only chance then he gets hit by that terminal illness kidney failure pnuemonia heart attack and then he just gets done in by the asura path or something.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No he'd literally get clapped, he is scaled below base jiraiya and if he uses his susanoo which is his only chance then he gets hit by that terminal illness kidney failure pnuemonia heart attack and then he just gets done in by the asura path or something.
Click to expand...
He isn't weaker than Base Jiraiya. That's a part 1 retconned statement because Itachi didn't want to fight Jiraiya. Also using susanoo for a moment doesn't kill him. He had already fought a long battle and still kept susanoo active long enough to fight hydra Orochimaru.
LightReinh12345 said:
Thats enough maybe according tp you but I think it can go either way
I can discuss in Discord why I think that
Click to expand...
Or...here?
 
GokuSparkle said:
He isn't weaker than Base Jiraiya. That's a part 1 retconned statement because Itachi didn't want to fight Jiraiya. Also using susanoo for a moment doesn't kill him. He had already fought a long battle and still kept susanoo active long enough to fight hydra Orochimaru.

Or...here?
Click to expand...
I understand but the wiki literally scales jiraya to above itachi in his profile even though they say he's comparable to orochimaru whos literally weaker than itachi... anyway you know what happened after itachi used the susanoo for an extended period of time? Yup, he rolled over and died. Itachi was going to die to kirin which is 600 megatons, pain is in the gigatons bro. And the only reason he survived is because the susanoo saved him and even then nobody actually challenged his susanoo since he just immediately hax stomped orochimaru and sasuke was so worn out all he could do is throw kunai when a literal blood red mech kaiju monstrosity which his evil brother whose all bloodied up is controlling was slowly approching him for his eyes. So yeah susanoo wasn't challenged so it only scales to above 600 megatons while pain is much higher in the gigatons.
 
Then the naruto verse page and a ton of profiles need to be overhauled because I think all of the high tiers scale of kirin if I recall correctly.
 
Yeah we say this like 9 billion times but the profiles are complete garbo for now.

And it will take 18 billion CRTs to get them good again, because everytime we got it right another thing comes up and it's back to square zero.

Anyways sorry for the derail.
 
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