• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Hax potency question

DaReaperMan

DaReaperMan

Bronze Supporter
42,569
36,862
If one hax/resistance is layered, but one hax/resistance is conceptual and layered, which wins out?
 
If the verse says/indicates that it being conceptual helps, it helps as much as the verse says it does. Otherwise it doesn't.
 
Interesting, how about if it works by applying the very concept of the hax in question onto an individual? Like, if somone applied the concept of gold on someone to turn them into gold, would it be superior to something that just turns someone into gold without the extra context?
 
"Superior" is a weird word.

It may help bypass specific resistances, but would it bypass more layers of resistance than it's shown? Unknown, so we'd probably default to no. Does resisting it let them resist something that worked on characters with more ordinary layers of resistance? Unknown, so we'd probably default to no.

They would need to resist Concept Manip & Transmutation I guess.

No, we tend to let abilities like this get resisted by multiple means.

Plot-based EE can be resisted by existing outside of the plot, or by inexplicably being unable to be erased; you don't need both.
 
Agnaa said:
"Superior" is a weird word.

It may help bypass specific resistances, but would it bypass more layers of resistance than it's shown? Unknown, so we'd probably default to no. Does resisting it let them resist something that worked on characters with more ordinary layers of resistance? Unknown, so we'd probably default to no.

They would need to resist Concept Manip & Transmutation I guess.

No, we tend to let abilities like this get resisted by multiple means.

Plot-based EE can be resisted by existing outside of the plot, or by inexplicably being unable to be erased; you don't need both.
Click to expand...
Honestly this sounds like a topic that requires more input, as it genuinely interests me, so let me recruit more input
 
Those are two different abilities in that case.

One is Conceptual Manipulation which has the effect of Transmutation.
The other is just Transmutation.

Not really a case of superiroirty but of different mechanics. Someone who resist conceputual manipulation but not transmutation wouldn't be able to stop the latter from occuring while someone who resist only transmutation wouldn't stop the former.
 
Some other things that are worth nothing; if an ability like that has multiple effects, resisting the mechanism can make you not affected at all, while resisting the effects would only make you not affected by those effects.

And that sometimes characters can have resistances with specific mechanisms that make them not always resist that ability. If you resist mind manip because you wear a helmet that prevents any electrical signals from traveling to your brain and messing with your mind, you'd still be vulnerable to vague & psionic mind manip.
 
Delta333 said:
Inflicting the concept of gold can only turn someone to gold, it has no other effect at all
Click to expand...
Sure it doesn't, but the mechanic of abilities are what matter more when it comes to determining something like resistances. Cause what you're actually resisting is different depending on what's actually happening.
 
What about abilities that work on concepts? Would causality manipulation that works on someone's concept be better then causality manipulation that works on someone's body?
Agnaa said:
No, we tend to let abilities like this get resisted by multiple means.

Plot-based EE can be resisted by existing outside of the plot, or by inexplicably being unable to be erased; you don't need both.
Click to expand...
So law based power null can be resisted either via resisting law manipulation or power null?
 
Yeah, that is true, huh... makes Warhammer Fantasy more interesting... or not cause magic can effect Daemons anyway...

Huh... honestly can't decide with what I know know if something that is made of concepts, nothingness and the like anyway being effected by something that applies concepts... so, further question on that one...

Basically, if a conceptual power can effect something made of concepts and like 7 other AE1 things that honestly probably don't matter, does it change?
 
Orioreeem said:
What about abilities that work on concepts? Would causality manipulation that works on someone's concept be better then causality manipulation that works on someone's body?
Click to expand...
That sounds like a difference in mechanics as well. The thing would saying its better is that the assumption of one being superior to another is made, when what you're talking about is more a difference in capabilities. Ones ability to manipulate causality which only affects physical things could still be superior to someone else's who can also affect things on a conceptual level.

So I wouldn't immediately assume the other is better just because of what you proposed above.
 
What about abilities that work on concepts? Would causality manipulation that works on someone's concept be better then causality manipulation that works on someone's body?

It would be better in that it can affect people's concepts, while ordinary abilities can't.

So law based power null can be resisted either via resisting law manipulation or power null?

Ye.

Basically, if a conceptual power can effect something made of concepts and like 7 other AE1 things that honestly probably don't matter, does it change?

It changes in that it can affect things with those qualities. If those qualities give additional resistances, then it grants additional layers of bypassing resistances. If it's just elaborate intangibility, it gives them elaborate NPI with that ability.

The assumption comes from concepts being inherently superior to the body.

I wouldn't make that assumption.
 
Orioreeem said:
Why not? Doesn't our regeneration page calls concept even more fundamental then body mind and soul?
Click to expand...
Because it's about levels of existence. Which things depend on which and all that. I think that lens of analysis is less useful when looking at hax potency.
 
If someone's concept is put under say, an illusion, would the actual body be placed under the illusion?
 
Not necessarily. Depends on how it works.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Powernull and hax layer question
Replies
13
Views
940
Digital_Franz
Digital_Franz
Brogeefrong
Fundamental Layer questions
Replies
19
Views
2K
Everything12
Everything12
Fezzih_007
Resistance negation vs layers
Replies
5
Views
702
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
Voidnether
Bypass Immunity vs Layering
Replies
8
Views
562
Voidnether
Voidnether
Can Reactive Evolution make one's Resistance layered?
Replies
9
Views
1K
Oliver_de_jesus
Oliver_de_jesus
Back
Top