Halo Page Problems

[FanofRPGs]

Forerunners should be like this for AP and Speed

AP: Room level to City Block level for standard Weapons | City Block level to Continent level for Small Cannons, Mechs, Onyx Sentinels | Country level to Multi-Continental level for Ship Weapons, Star level+ via detonating stars | possibly Galaxy level with some tech | Multiversal level+ for Fuel Collection

Speed: Subsonic+ Combat Speed, with Hypersonic Reactions (Their average suits are far more advanced that Mjolnir armor) | Massively Hypersonic+ to Sub-Relativistic sublight speeds for ships (Ships routinely can cross hundreds of millions of kilometers in hours. Even when slowed down, a mere mining ship reached Earth to Mars in just 2 days), MFTL+ via Slipspace travel (Forerunner ships commonly go across the galaxy in a matter of hours or sometimes minutes. A Forerunner Escort Ship can travel 20,000 light years in 3 hours, though it was delayed to 3 days. Forerunner Slisppace Portals could let ships go across and even outside the galaxy in less than a day)


Honestly I don't see why we use Speed for Sublight Ratings, Acceleration would be much more important to measure for them

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think Reppuzan?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Fan

What are the justifications for the AP ratings?

Acceleration =/= velocity and is thus =/= speed. You can mention it as part of the description for debating purposes, but it isn't speed and thus isn't used for speed justifications compared to average or top speed.

We still don't have proper ratings for other stats like Lifting Strength and Durability?

 

[FanofRPGs]

@Fan
What are the justifications for the AP ratings?

Acceleration =/= velocity and is thus =/= speed. You can mention it as part of the description for debating purposes, but it isn't speed and thus isn't used for speed justifications compared to average or top speed.

We still don't have proper ratings for other stats like Lifting Strength and Durability?

Their rifles could pierce through Ancient Human shielding like butter and melt through a massive hole. A single light rifle shot could one-shot an elite Zealot. Their shotguns, incineration cannons, and binary rifles can vaporize spartans and even hunters.

Onyx Sentinels have been calced. A single tiny Point Defense Cannon could vaporize 3 Pelicans in one blast. War Sphinxes are stated to be able to level cities (the size of continents) and continents. Seekers (The superior successor to the War Sphinx) could initate battles seen from outer space where continents were sliced up and thrown upside down.

Forerunner Ships could easily cut through Halo rings so deep in, they create giant crater-like gashes which cause the rings to collapse. These Halo Rings cannot be melted by an explosion stated to be 100,000,000 degrees. There was another feet where they made a 2 kilometer crater in a Halo from a blast. As said, their equivalent to Battle Tanks can slice up continents and flip them around. Obviously ships are stronger.

They have technologies able to change the shift of Galaxies

Fictional Ships usually don't work like fictional characters, they usually don't reach their top speed instantly and usually accelerate. It would be a very important variable to place what their acceleration levels are, as it does not matter if one can reach a speed, it matters if they can do it in the heat of battle very quickly.

Lifting Strength is pretty irrelevant. IDK what to put.

Durability would be the same as AP for the most part most likely. The Mantle's Approach could take several minutes worth of SMAC fire from a large swath of the ODP grid. Each shot from each ODP measures in the dozens of gigatons and they fire every 7 seconds or so.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Lifting Strength should be fine since MC can easily flip the vehicles like the tank and warthog back to it's place.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Lifting Strength is fine IMO. But I think some of the Class-100 characters might need a downgrade to Class-10 F.E. Fal Chavamee. Unless he legit lifted a Scorpion Tank or something, but I don't think he did; and I know John and Thel never did that contrary to popular belief. Forerunners should be surperior to Spartans and Elites also.

The reactions speeds of Spartans are Supersonic+ due to reacting to bullets actually, not sure where Hypersonic came from, but I know alot of their ships move at such speeds though.

Durability, if you're talking about the Forerunners, as I mentioned earlier, would be City Level scaling from Ur-Didact; who tanked a 30 Megaton Havok Tactical Nuke.

 

[KarmodF]

Durability: At least Wall level without MJOLNIR armor system (A 14-year old John was relatively confident he could survive a 30-meter fall without breaking anything); at least Small Building level+ with MJOLNIR Mark V Spartan Shields to Building level+ with MJOLNIR Mark VI Spartan Shields (His standart shields should be comparable to other Spartan Shields, like other Mark V shields, the Mark VI shields doubles the strenght of said Mark V ) Large Building level (Could take several direct hits from 50mm anti-vehicle rounds that would have "penetrated his old shieldless suit instantly" while only dropping to roughly quarter shield strength, later incarnations of the MJOLNIR are more powerful survived the heat and impact of a re-entry fall of over 2 kilometers relatively unharmed by riding on a piece of ship hull and locking down his armor's servos) City Block level+ (Used the detonation of a large antimatter bomb to accelerate himself to high speeds, and withstood the impact of hitting a spaceship traveling at what appears to be at least hypersonic+ speed, the latter equal to at least 5.38 tonnes of TNT) City Block level+ (Tanked a full shot from 343 Guilty Spark Beam , a beam similar to Onyx Sentinel Beam, who packed City Block levels of energy ) Multy-City Block level with Armor Lockup and Overshields (Render him invulnerable to previous mentioned damage) City Level+ with Cortana (Cortana was able to protect him against the explosion of the HAVOK Tactical Nuclear Weapo , a Nuclear divice that yields 30 Megatons)

I tried to repair the Master Chief Durability part, but we probably need more Revisions.

EDIT: Messed up a little bit, the second City Block level should be Large Building

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, his durability should be downgraded. While Wall Level without Mjoilneir is fine. His Armor without shields should be more like Room Level. His durability is already slightly exagerated due to calc stackings. And with Shields, it's more like Building Level. The Anti-Vehicle rounds are only a Room Level weapon, and the heat and impact of falling 2 kilometers is more like building level as opposed to Large Building Level. I mean, the kinetic energy alone is only Wall Level actually, but I'm still working on the calc for the impact on my blog. If I can find a calculator to find the TNT equivelent of landing impact, I could do it.

As for the bomb propelling himself, I don't know about that, but the kinetic energy of him getting launch is actually more Large Building Level; 5.38 tonnes is High 8-C as opposed to 8-B. And as for the 343 Guilty Spark Laser, I know he is comparable to the Onyx Sentiniels, but I still believe the 8-B rating was limited to them charching up their lasers; which no one actually tanked iirc. They seem more like building level without charging.

As for the Cortana and Havok Nuke, Chief's bubble shield didn't actually take the full impact. That was didact, and what the bubble shield actually repeled was more like Small City Level or a few Megatons. Additionally, all of those plus signs are unnecesarry. It's not like taking a hit from a 22 ton attack automatically means they are capable of taking a 55.5 ton attack.

 

[KarmodF]

The Mark VI doubles the strenght of the Mark V who has shown 9-A Durability, I dont know why you keep saying he needs a downgrade, his armor is stronger than just 9-A/8-C, in the cutscene against Guilty Spark he took another shot from him while his shields were down and damged, I would really apreciate if somebody from the calc. group does a check for the 2 Km instead of you, and no, thee weapons have scaled to the characters mostly, hell, even the writters know this the SPNKr Rocket Launcher is build to destroy Scorpion Tanks, vehicles more durable than actual Spartans.

I said so, is 5.38= High 8-C, the Monitors desintegrate 9-C to 9-B characters, Cinder from KI incinerates normal humans and he is 8-C, It would scale to even the Jackals and Grunt dura. the same way Cinder calc. worked.

And there wasnt a Bubble Shield at the end of Halo 4, Cortana suppsosedly help him out, The Didact fall to the Compositor, he didnt even stay on the Bridge were the Bomb explode, he probably scale to 7-B for being stronger than Ancient Prometheans

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm well aware that Mark VI is double the durability of Mark V, but the Mark V alone only has 9-A durability feats, even from just taking the splash for the Onyx Sentinels. Additionally, dropping shields 50% doesn't mean that one doubles the durability of the attack. That's basically what calc stacking is; for example, Cyberdemon does not have 85.5 kilotons for his durability due to taking 3 hits from the BFG 9000; he only scales to the first hit and every other hit is stamina.

I did mention that the crash landing is unfinished, but I do remember I calc I can no longer find that the final resault was 903 kilograms; which = Building Level. Which is why I'm at least helping; I'm obviously going to need help from a calc group member of course. Anyway, there isn't really a strict rule for attempting calcs as long as they're reasonable; and of course there are rules for it being accepted. But keep in mind that none of the Calc groups were always calc groups.

Anyway, destroying tanks is still generally a 9-A feat and I'm well aware that Scorpion tanks are more durable than Spartans. Fuel Rod Cannons are also calced at 8-C. Spartans do scale to those in Mark VI. Anyway, I still stand on my thoughts about 343 Guilty Spark and Onyx Sentinels charging their lasers to preform 8-B attack. Additionally, I prefer not to have a repeat of the entire FE6 cast being Multi-Continent Level scaling from Cecilia's outlier surviving an attack from Zephiel, but that's off topic.

And Cortana actually did create something similar to a bubble shield or hardlight shield. Anyway, it was still aimed at Didact, and it wasn't quite point blank when that incident happened. And it isn't just me, Fan also mentioned on the other thread that he thinks Spartans should have a durability downgrade; and he's considered the Halo expert.

Anyway, I apologize and meant no disrespect. But I still do feel that the current durability ratings for Spartans are of calc stacking.

 

[KarmodF]

Most of the Calcs are towards 9-A for Shields, Is canon that the Mark VI shields double the strength of the Mark V, not that they only droped a 50% of the Shield, the Shield tanked a certain percent and resisted, a Mark VI has double shields so we can scale to that not that because X character resisted only 50% of the attack means that they are beyond that shit, hell no, I am triying to say that the Mark V Shield tanked the shot and that the Mark Vi is far stronger, not that the Shield only tank a certain percent and that the Mark V shields are stronger, anyways, I previously that Mark VI are at Room/Small Building level, no to mention that the High 8-C to 8-B feats follow a historical path, from Halo 2 when Chief got the Armor to the fight in the Proto-Halo, the last known mission were Chief used the Mark VI [GEN1] and whats the matter with Fan being the "Halo Expert" that doesnt discredit my own opinion, the Large Building to City Block came from the Bungie Games and as Bungie mention the games are (sadly) prime canon.

343 and Onyx charge their Beams? Well you can see that 343 doesnt charge his Beams but still is able to use it to do massive damage, I can use the excuse that he could have charged his Beam while John runed to help Johnson anyways, no to mention that the Onyx Sentinel shot their Beam lower than the Average Monitor/Sentinel because they need to have exsaustive pressision, Hundreds and Hundreds of Onyx Sentinels tear apart a Covenant Carrier with amazing precision.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

No one was discrediting your opinion; I do have full respect for it actually. Anyway, I was referencing that 3 page blog, the one you linked on that other thread that included the 8-B calc for Onyx Sentinels. The original calc had Kelly tanking the splash of the laser at 12.63 kilograms, but the same user used the shields dropping by 50% to double that and rank durability as 25.26 kilograms for Mark V's shields. And then he used that to say Mark VI's shields have 50.52 kg. That's what I was refering to when I said 50% shield drop. It wasn't the Mark IV doubling part, it was him using both to quadriple it that was calc stacking. Anyway, that's also just Room Level as opposed to Room Level+ As for the other calcs, Fan also refered to them as outliers, though I think calc stacking is more accurate. He said most plasma rifles and stuff are more like Wall Level.

Anyway, the Large Bulding Level feat might be okay, but 343 Guilty Spark still hasn't demonstrated much collateral damage against Johnson or John. Additionally, grenades and other 8-B weapons have been known to obliterare muitliple Spartans or Elites. Additionally, I think taking down ships was only capable when there are multiple Sentinels; and they target like the weak points of the ship is what caused it. Additionally, Sentinels are generally potrayed as being significantly more power than any other troops uncluding Brutes, Hunters, Spartans, Elites, and even the Lancer Knights.

 

[KarmodF]

Yeah it is more accurate since the Plasma Rifles are 9-B and depending on the Damage aplied by time, and, well I guess it should be Room Level/Small Building with MJOLNIR Mark V Spartan Shield to Building Level with MJOLNIR Mark VI Spartan Shields.

In that way we dont need to heavily adjust them.

And we need people to discuss the 8-B Guilty Spark, The 2 Km Fall and the High 8-C Antimatter Bomb impulse.

Once that we make a revision for the Mid Tier Character and we can create new pages.

 

[FanofRPGs]

I am certainly not a "Halo Expert", usually I rely on Lord Rama (Space Battles) or Ziku (Take Five Forums) for more in depth stuff. I am terrible at research and at resources.

In The Halo 2 Anniversaye Terminals, it is shown Guilty Spark can vaporize Kig-Yar when angry IIRC. He used this same blast on Master Chief which knocked him out for a few seconds, could we use that? It would measure in the several hundreds of megajoules, I would say maybe aroun 800 given the size of Kig-Yar and their armor.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Fan

Aside from obviously the games, do you have any ideas as to where I can start readings Halo lore? It's recently interested me and I want to help with the pages.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@The Everlasting, from what I hear, nearly all of the books by Eric Nylund are pretty much considered canon.

@Fan, ah, I see. Vaporizing a Jackal, I don't think that's quite a 8-B feat; they don't really have durability much greater than 9-B. Though you mentioned 800 megajoules; that would be about Room Level+ I know the Fuel Rod Cannons are around 2.99 Gigajoules; which is 8-C. So yeah, that would still range into the 9-A to 8-C that I mentioned above.

 

[KarmodF]

I am certainly not a "Halo Expert", usually I rely on Lord Rama (Space Battles) or Ziku (Take Five Forums) for more in depth stuff. I am terrible at research and at resources.

In The Halo 2 Anniversaye Terminals, it is shown Guilty Spark can vaporize Kig-Yar when angry IIRC. He used this same blast on Master Chief which knocked him out for a few seconds, could we use that? It would measure in the several hundreds of megajoules, I would say maybe aroun 800 given the size of Kig-Yar and their armor.

If vaporize 10-C characters scales to 8-C a 9-B would massively scale around Tier 8 maybe At the border of 8-C.

 

[FanofRPGs]

@Fan
Aside from obviously the games, do you have any ideas as to where I can start readings Halo lore? It's recently interested me and I want to help with the pages.

Well in Chronological order, here is this site, it would help

http://www.halodiehards.net/halo-novels-chronological-order/

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Fan

Thank you.

 

[KarmodF]

Anything about Forerunners 2-A in terms of combat?

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Thanks Fan. I only played the games so I'm gonna need to read the books as well.

 

[Antvasima]

@FanofRPGs Can you summarise what, if any, changes that need to be performed?

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

I have plenty of copies of the books, so I can help with this since the nature of this problem seems more immediate than the Doctor Who pages. I'll help as I can.

I guess we should leave the pages alone in the meantime, cutting down on vs debates and such with them.

 

[KarmodF]

I have plenty of copies of the books, so I can help with this since the nature of this problem seems more immediate than the Doctor Who pages. I'll help as I can.

I guess we should leave the pages alone in the meantime, cutting down on vs debates and such with them.

Whats the problem with the Doc. Pages?.

Lucky, those books are pretty valuable when it comes to a Halo collection, the most useful books for this revision are:

-Cryptum -Silentium -The Flood (Possibly) -Ghost of Onyx

Mostly for Forerunner tech.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

@KarmodF

The most popular ones, such as the Time Lords and the Doctor's pages, look rather nice, but the higher dimensional guys need citations and some (like the Gods of Ragnarok) are massively downplayed. But that's off topic; you're welcome to my wall if you have any queries!

I don't have the books about the Forerunners, but I've plenty of the UNSC friends. I recall a comic book in which an air-to-ground missles was practically in slow motion for Chief, too. I'll help out with the verse after fufilling a few promises!

 

[FanofRPGs]

I am in the process of writing a comment on what we do for the Forerunners, as they are the second most popular aspect of Halo I assume, Master Chief be next

 

[FanofRPGs]

@FanofRPGs Can you summarise what, if any, changes that need to be performed?

oh sorry, I did not notice

More information on the Forerunners, and make it more in depth on their speed

Speed: at least subsonic combat speeds, and at least Supersonic+ reactions (Forerunner suits are vastly more advanced than spartan armor and augmentations) | Ships have High Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic speeds in atmosphere (The 14 kilometer long Forerunner Keyship can span its own length within the Atmosphere in a second, the Didact's Cryptum can span a quarter of it's length every second), Massively Hypersonic+ to Sub-Relativistic Ship Speeds in outer space (Routine trips from Mars to Earth take a few hours, Forerunner Escort Ships can cross a few million kilometers in 30 minutes), Slispace Drives are MFTL+ (The Mantle's approach could cross several dozens of thousands of lightyears between Halo Installation 03 and Earth in around 2 minutes, an Escort Ship flew Iso-Didact 20,000 light years in 2 hours though it took 3 days due to problems with slispace, ships can fly across outside the galaxy for tens of thousands of light years in hours) | MFTL+ for Slisppace Portals (A Portal can let ships go hundreds of thousands of light years in hours)

For weaknesses

Weakness: Politically corrupt and their empire is overly centrallized. Forerunner suits "have a mind of their own" can can kill the wearers if they don't like them or even function on their own. The older model Halo rings had larger reach, but could only target from two directions and was not omnidirectional.

Now for range, we must include sensor technology, communications, and weapon range

Range: Handheld weapons range from several meters to several kilometers | Ship cannons and weapons range out hundreds of kilometers | Halo Rings can be dialed from interplanetary range to Interstellar range (A Halo Ring was activated to wipe out Solar System, they have a 25,000 omnidirectional range), Older Models could dialed to galactic range (Had a maximum range of 250,000 light years, but only in two directions) | Forerunner Sensors had interplanetary to Interstellar sensors that could detect things on a multi-universal level (Forerunner suit and ship sensors can detect life down to microbes from other planets, and see the fauna and wildlife of other planets a light year away. They could see interactions and movements and activity in The Glow or in Slipspace or other Extra-Dimensions) | Communications are interstellar to galactic

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

A good start, Fan! Though I think it would be best to have an in-depth blog or something of the sort before changing any pages.

 

[KarmodF]

Any changes about Forerunner's AP with hax?, They seems Multi-Universal.

 

[Antvasima]

@FanofRPGs I suppose that seems reasonable.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Those stats Fan mentioned seem good. I know the Forerunners themselves are City Level Durability scaling from Ur-Didact taking a hit from a 30 Megaton Havok Nuke at point blank.

As for other skills such as lifting stength, I believe that one also scales from Didact. Class 10+ due to being surperior to Spartans?