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Halo: Master Chief and Spartans' revisions and downgrades

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Man, I missed a lot when I went to sleep last night. Also that conversation about Spartan IIIs and Spartan IVs reminded me that Noble Six is an absolute monster of a Spartan since he's one of two people in the UNSC with the Hyper-Lethal Designation with the other being Master Chief himself, so take that as you will.
 
IIRC this was one of their other noteworthy unarmoured feats.

During their initial exercises in Reach's titanium mines, after recovering from the augmentations, the Spartans completely overpowered trainers wearing Mark I exoskeletons, outrunning their automated targeting systems and dismantling the heavy combat suits with their bare hands. A kick by John-117 flung one of the exoskeleton-clad men eight meters.

“ John landed, turned, braced, and kicked one guard. The man landed in a heap... 8 meters away „

~ Halo, The Fall Of Reach Pg 72

BfW11Ku44BfKjdkHEBSpel_EkBA5gnf2xV-ZoH95Tmx1353JuqmkFntX7gcIf_ik9je7anbKrtUN=s1600

FlUlALXlSAWVuLYl_9Eybz5GFFD7yMHSdxbA_MKQ84VlPcpOP-ytlCqiz1DhXstz9oxQIKixI3Sl=s1600
~ Halo: Fall of Reach - Boot Camp Issue 3
I think I actually calculated this at one point, it was about 50 kilojoules iirc, and was consistent with a statement from a freshly augmented John where he felt confident about surviving a 30 meter fall which was 41 kilojoules.
I think that's enough about the Carbine. DDM is correct, 700 m/s is the only figure we have for the Type 51's muzzle velocity. The Beam Rifle is the only known Halo small arms with a muzzle velocity over supersonic+

I want us to focus on where exactly to scale the Mjolnir energy shields for the MkV, and the MkVI onwards since I am 100% sure that 15 megajoule statement was always made up. John has a feat in Halo The Flood/CE where he tanks a Hunter's plasma mortar without his shields breaking, and another while his shields are recharging. Then there's also standing within a certain distance to a Wraith mortar, and taking hits from a Phantom's cannon.
That was something I also discussed multiple times in great length.......
I too was unsure how to quantify that comic, it looked like it could easily be aim dodging, something Spartans are quite good at. The former two links, specifically the second one seem to be legit in my opinion. The second scan particularly writes "Rion raised her M6 and fired at his unprotected head. Incredibly quick, he was already ducking to the right". I believe this shows dodging a 430m/s round at basically point blank.

As for the Armigers, I'm unsure how to quantify that. It needs more context.

Hello, VersusJunkie. Been a good while since I've seen you about, and back on Halo no less.

I don't know the Deep Lore on Halo, so I am merely here to announce that when all is said and done, I offer to look through it all and give my opinions on it, since you'll be needing more than one admin for all this.
Indeed it has been a long time. Though after this thread is done, I expect to be semi-active at best. Powerscaling loses a bit of its luster when you get a bit older imo.
 
I think I actually calculated this at one point, it was about 50 kilojoules iirc, and was consistent with a statement from a freshly augmented John where he felt confident about surviving a 30 meter fall which was 41 kilojoules.

In regards to your calc, you said this,
“ We have a sketch of the exoskeleton the guard was wearing. I don't think I can figure out its mass. However, the Mk lll MJOLNIR exoskeleton was stated to be bulkier and heavier than te newer versions of Mjolnir, witch weight about 450 Kg when occupied „

And decided to use 450 kg as the weight of the Mark 1 suits with occupants used by the trainers against John and Blue Team.

But I have a question regarding something I read,
“ In its final phase, the armor weighs half a short ton (453.6 kilograms) „
~ Halo: The Fall of Reach (2010 edition); page 2 & page 16 (Regarding the Mark IV MJOLNIR)
Does the term final phase mean "the complete armor without a occupant" or "the complete armor with its occupant"?

Because if the 453.6 kg figure refers to just the armor by itself we could add the average weight of an adult human bringing the total weight up to 518.6 kg.
The weight of an adult human, or a large dog: 50 kg - 80 kg (Avg. 65 kg)
~ Lifting Strength Page

Using your calc with the 518.6 kg value results in a slight upgrade

High End: 0.25 seconds, 32 m/s, 518.6 kg
KE = 265,472 J Wall Level
LS = 66,380.8 N = 6.768957799 metric ton-force = Class 10

Mid-End: 0.5 seconds, 16 m/s, 518.6 kg
KE = 66,380.8 J Wall Level
LS = 16,595.2 N = 1.6922394498 metric ton-force = Class 5

Low-End: 1 second, 8 m/s, 518.6 kg
KE = 16,595.2 J = Wall Level
LS = 4,148.8 N = 0.4230598624 metric ton-force = Peak Human
 
In regards to your calc, you said this,


And decided to use 450 kg as the weight of the Mark 1 suits with occupants used by the trainers against John and Blue Team.

But I have a question regarding something I read,

Does the term final phase mean "the complete armor without a occupant" or "the complete armor with its occupant"?

Because if the 453.6 kg figure refers to just the armor by itself we could add the average weight of an adult human bringing the total weight up to 518.6 kg.


Using your calc with the 518.6 kg value results in a slight upgrade

High End: 0.25 seconds, 32 m/s, 518.6 kg
KE = 265,472 J Wall Level
LS = 66,380.8 N = 6.768957799 metric ton-force = Class 10

Mid-End: 0.5 seconds, 16 m/s, 518.6 kg
KE = 66,380.8 J Wall Level
LS = 16,595.2 N = 1.6922394498 metric ton-force = Class 5

Low-End: 1 second, 8 m/s, 518.6 kg
KE = 16,595.2 J = Wall Level
LS = 4,148.8 N = 0.4230598624 metric ton-force = Peak Human
That is a neat find, and would still be consistent, and is more accurate. The suit as shown in the scan clearly shows bulk comparable to the Mjolnir armor as well. Unless the original calculation I made so long ago has some clear flaws and needs to be reworked, I don't see any reason why this couldn't be used.

I would like the opinion of the Calc Group member following this thread Mr Bambu on this feat.
 
I think I actually calculated the first feat which was about 82 m/s, subsonic. All the rest remains consistent with unarmored Spartans being subsonic.
 
I think I actually calculated the first feat which was about 82 m/s, subsonic. All the rest remains consistent with unarmored Spartans being subsonic.

So Master Chief without MJOLNIR has:

Superhuman Movement Speed (Ran half a kilometer in 17 seconds [29.4118 m/s]. Capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 km/h [‭15.27777777777777778 m/s] or 34.2 mph [15.288768 m/s].)

Subsonic Combat Speed (Can appear as a blur [FTE: 34.3 m/s] to ordinary humans. Dodged [82 m/s] stun rounds fired from a 30 mm cannon at point blank range.) and Reaction Speed (Estimated to have a reaction time of twenty milliseconds.)
 
Also that conversation about Spartan IIIs and Spartan IVs reminded me that Noble Six is an absolute monster of a Spartan since he's one of two people in the UNSC with the Hyper-Lethal Designation with the other being Master Chief himself, so take that as you will.
 
So Master Chief without MJOLNIR has:

Superhuman Movement Speed (Ran half a kilometer in 17 seconds [29.4118 m/s]. Capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 km/h [‭15.27777777777777778 m/s] or 34.2 mph [15.288768 m/s].)

Subsonic Combat Speed (Can appear as a blur [FTE: 34.3 m/s] to ordinary humans. Dodged [82 m/s] stun rounds fired from a 30 mm cannon at point blank range.) and Reaction Speed (Estimated to have a reaction time of twenty milliseconds.)
That figure for movement speed is placed incorrectly as it only occured in armor, specifically the MkV. Unarmored, Spartans can run about 30 ish mph. Still superhuman though.
 
Does the term final phase mean "the complete armor without a occupant" or "the complete armor with its occupant"?
That is without its occupant IIRC so no normal ass human won’t been able to worn the Mark 4 (IV) armor without ******* prior augmentations as they will die as that was part of the respect thread for Master Chief on Reddit
 
I think that's enough about the Carbine. DDM is correct, 700 m/s is the only figure we have for the Type 51's muzzle velocity. The Beam Rifle is the only known Halo small arms with a muzzle velocity over supersonic+
Eh I’m fine with dropping It, though I think the Halo 3 guide isn’t a great source
I want us to focus on where exactly to scale the Mjolnir energy shields for the MkV, and the MkVI onwards since I am 100% sure that 15 megajoule statement was always made up. John has a feat in Halo The Flood/CE where he tanks a Hunter's plasma mortar without his shields
I’m pretty Sure there’s a good Fuel Rod feat in the Terminals for H2A but I’ll see if I can find it. Worst case, we could simply Upscale the shields from the armour feats?

I also think the G1DB Blog found a small building feat for Chief
 
As for the Hyper-lethal descriptor, don’t read into that one; all the Spartan IV’s are hyper lethal now
 
That figure for movement speed is placed incorrectly as it only occured in armor, specifically the MkV.
The "Ran half a Kilometer in 17 seconds"? I just copied what was on the Profile currently for Chief's "Without MJOLNIR" Speed Stat.

It also lists the 106 km/h figure, something which I know he did in MJOLNIR, in his "Without MJOLNIR" Key Speed

no normal ass human won’t been able to worn the Mark 4 (IV) armor without ******* prior augmentations as they will die as that was part of the respect thread for Master Chief on Reddit
We are aware though?

We are using the Mark IV total weight (453.6 kg) + Avg. Human weight (65 kg) as a substitute for the weight of a Mark I armor with an occupant since all we know about the Mark I is that it's bigger and bulkier than the later Mark IV to VI armors.
 
Eh I’m fine with dropping It, though I think the Halo 3 guide isn’t a great source

I’m pretty Sure there’s a good Fuel Rod feat in the Terminals for H2A but I’ll see if I can find it. Worst case, we could simply Upscale the shields from the armour feats?

I also think the G1DB Blog found a small building feat for Chief
Let us know what you find, and what is this blog you speak of? If it's legit, and in the lower end of Small Building Level it may not be an outlier. But if it's in the triple megajoules, it's guaranteed to be an outlier.
 
We are aware though?

We are using the Mark IV total weight (453.6 kg) + Avg. Human weight (65 kg) as a substitute for the weight of a Mark I armor with an occupant since all we know about the Mark I is that it's bigger and bulkier than the later Mark IV to VI armors
In that case, shouldn’t we been using the weight of the Spartan 2s and other Spartans that has used that version of the MJOLNIR armor?
 
In that case, shouldn’t we been using the weight of the Spartan 2s and other Spartans that has used that version of the MJOLNIR armor?
Why though? Spartans are heavier than normal humans, John at age 14 was already 130 kg in weight.

Again the weight of the Mark IV is being used as a substitute for the weight of the Mark I suits that were worn by ordinary human instructors, since it's the heaviest version of MJOLNIR that I know of that's been given a weight measurement (453.6 kg).
 
Why though? Spartans are heavier than normal humans, John at age 14 was already 130 kg in weight.

Again the weight of the Mark IV is being used as a substitute for the weight of the Mark I suits that were worn by ordinary human instructors, since it's the heaviest version of MJOLNIR that I know of that's been given a weight measurement (453.6 kg).
Fair enough as I thought we doing things for the feats related to Mark 4 (IV) and stuff
 
You guys remember when Guilty Spark damn near one-shot Chief with his laser at the end of Halo 3? Another monitor in Halo Infinite shoots him with its laser while he's off-guard and it barely hurts him at all.
 
You guys remember when Guilty Spark damn near one-shot Chief with his laser at the end of Halo 3? Another monitor in Halo Infinite shoots him with its laser while he's off-guard and it barely hurts him at all.


He didn’t truly one shot Chef, but he did take out the energy shield as shown afterwards. Not sure what we rated the lasers for the Monitors though
 


He didn’t truly one shot Chef, but he did take out the energy shield as shown afterwards. Not sure what we rated the lasers for the Monitors though

Both Chief and the Arbiter took it, and Master Chief even took a brief burst of energy while his shields were down. I wouldn't say he was one shot though as he could fight immediately afterwards.

I think that Spark partially, or fully vaporized a Kig-Yar in the H2A terminals. I would say partial as it seems to only vaporize its torso. There are other comic feats where other monitors do similar feats, or reduce people to char.
 
I just think it shows a nice progression in Stats that Chief outright tanks the same weapon further down the line.
 
I just think it shows a nice progression in Stats that Chief outright tanks the same weapon further down the line.
This is the calc in question

Well...unless DDM can think of a more accurate figure for tanking the beam as they did with some of the other heat based weapons, I am hard pressed to explain this one. I suppose it might not be an outlier? Since the blasts completely knocked down both John, and Thel's shields, and a second burst brought Chief to his knees? As opposed to Tanaka casually performing a 162 megajoule feat.

This CRT is becoming more complicated than I anticipated.
 
This is the calc in question

Well...unless DDM can think of a more accurate figure for tanking the beam as they did with some of the other heat based weapons, I am hard pressed to explain this one. I suppose it might not be an outlier? Since the blasts completely knocked down both John, and Thel's shields, and a second burst brought Chief to his knees? As opposed to Tanaka casually performing a 162 megajoule feat.

This CRT is becoming more complicated than I anticipated.
It's certainly something, I just like that it wasn't a one-off since Chief shows he can outright tank it later with no real issues.
 
It's certainly something, I just like that it wasn't a one-off since Chief shows he can outright tank it later with no real issues.
I think there may be a way to save this feat without it being a blatant outlier. DDM's original calc for the Kig-Yar vaporization is flawed. In reality, the calc is probably somewhere from 30-60 megajoules if revised.

Monitor beams don't behave like Promethean weapons. If you pay attention to frame 1:49 you will see that the beam only vaporizes the torso, and I recall a scene from another comic where a Monitor partially chars a Sangheli, but their feet are untouched by the beam.
 
I think there may be a way to save this feat without it being a blatant outlier. DDM's original calc for the Kig-Yar vaporization is flawed. In reality, the calc is probably somewhere from 30-60 megajoules if revised.

Monitor beams don't behave like Promethean weapons. If you pay attention to frame 1:49 you will see that the beam only vaporizes the torso, and I recall a scene from another comic where a Monitor partially chars a Sangheli, but their feet are untouched by the beam.
Man, I miss Halo not shying away from gratuitous violence like losing limbs and shit.
 
Man, I miss Halo not shying away from gratuitous violence like losing limbs and shit.
We do still have the extended media beyond the games at least. Maybe it's for the best that 343I didn't reintroduce The Flood. 343I could **** up a basic C++ pong game honestly.

But lets not get too off topic. The main focus of this thread is to talk downgrades, and maybe source some unknown or incorrectly interpreted feats to challenge a total downgrade, but we should also be talking about new abilities, and Spartans have gained quite a few.
 
We do still have the extended media beyond the games at least. Maybe it's for the best that 343I didn't reintroduce The Flood. 343I could **** up a basic C++ pong game honestly.
I see we're ignoring Awaken the Nightmare.
But lets not get too off topic. The main focus of this thread is to talk downgrades, and maybe source some unknown or incorrectly interpreted feats to challenge a total downgrade, but we should also be talking about new abilities, and Spartans have gained quite a few.
Doesn't both Noble Six and Master Chief fall from orbit? That's calc worthy.
 
Here's my question: What are we gonna do with all the Hero Units from Halo Wars 1 and 2? Some of them have insane feats like Decimus literally calling down several Glassing Cannons on himself and just tanking that shit.
 
Here's my question: What are we gonna do with all the Hero Units from Halo Wars 1 and 2? Some of them have insane feats like Decimus literally calling down several Glassing Cannons on himself and just tanking that shit.
Multiplayer Shenanigans and game mechanics don’t mixed well with lore.

Still it is something to take note of
 
I see we're ignoring Awaken the Nightmare.

Doesn't both Noble Six and Master Chief fall from orbit? That's calc worthy.
343I did not have full control of Halo Wars 2's development.

Noble Six used a piece of equipment that shielded him from reentry heat, but he still impacted at terminal velocity most likely, though he seemed to get away with moderate injuries at worst, and could go on and fight. Master Chief and Spartan Fred both have terminal velocity feats in the 1-5 megajoule range.

Jerome actually jumped off a destroyed Banished ship, and didn't seem all to concerned about reentry, and a terminal velocity impact. So maybe Jerome could be scaled to whatever durability is needed to tank reentry.
 
Here's my question: What are we gonna do with all the Hero Units from Halo Wars 1 and 2? Some of them have insane feats like Decimus literally calling down several Glassing Cannons on himself and just tanking that shit.
Game mechanics, or a weird extreme outlier. Glassing beams have been calced, and even with the inverse square law it would potentially be in the 8-B range.
 
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