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I guess I'm making this thread because I have unfinished business with Halo on this site, so I'll get right to the point for the grand total of five users who care about Halo here. Spartans, Elites, Brutes, and those who scale to them should be downgraded to 9-B - 9-B+, or maybe baseline 9-A in select cases. There are likely many uncalculated feats, especially with the newer wave of novels but that's beyond this discussion. It's been a long time since I've participated in a discussion here, so bear with me if this post seems a touch messy.
There's also the matter of new abilities shown by Spartans, particularly in Gen3 but that is secondary to the downgrades.
I will be focusing on Master Chief for this thread, as these changes will be applicable to everyone else who scales to and from Spartans.
Currently, Spartans' physical stats scale to this calc and to some now defunct, and debunked calculations as DarkDragonMedeus has demonstrated. Basically what I am saying is that the Boulder feat is a High-End Outlier. Spartans have now been consistently shown otherwise to have physical AP, and durability feats in the single to double digit megajoules. Weapons calced to be in the 30+ range, and especially the 100 or higher megajoules have been shown and implied to be major threats to Spartans. The boulder feat is 15-20 times higher than any other Spartan feat, so what is that if not an outlier? Especially as this is so far the only 9-A feat for Spartans.This is more damming when we take statements about the MkV having 15 megajoules of shield protection, Wall Level+. It is also remarkably consistent with some of @DarkDragonMedeus calcs that were buried.
Edit: The 15 Megajoule statement comes from a wiki that has no citations, so this cannot be used.
There's a statement in First Strike where a Spartan receives an upgrade that "doubles" the protection, and we can reasonably assume those upgrades carried over to the later armors. So Spartans with energy shields would have 9-A durability at 30 megajoules in later armors, but only barely. It has been awhile, but I will try to track that statement down if asked.
As for speed, I do not see anything in need of total revision, Supersonic-Supersonic+ has remained consistent in Spartans and their comparables. In fact, a forgotten calc here shows a legit Supersonic+ feat. So it may actually be a bit of an upgrade for Gen 2 & Gen 3 Spartans, and consistent with the armors being an upgrade.
As for lifting strength, I think everything is solid as is, but as I'll point out below, lifting strength feats in newer armors do not scale to older ones.
So how should the profiles of Spartans like Master Chief be rated? What should the new ratings be?
There is a clear difference between the performance of Spartans in MkIV, MkV Mjolnir, and the MkVI and so on.
The MkIV doesn't even have energy shields, nor can it support an AI, and that is a suit that Master Chief wore for most of his career. The MkV has shields, but they are shown, and stated to be inferior to the MkVI and on such as recharging slower, and providing less protection. The statements about Gen 2 Mjolnir being similar to Gen 1 clearly refers to the MkVI's capabilities, it wouldn't make sense for Spartan IV's to be compared to armor systems one or two iterations out of date, so any feats from the MkVI Gen 1 Mjolnir onwards do not scale to Master Chief or Spartans in the MkIV and MkV.
Good feats to scale the older suits to would be this 5 megajoule calc, and the Scorpion Missile feat at 1-3 megajoules which occured when Chief was in the MkV. It is consistent with what that iteration of Mjolnir shows.
As for MkVI/Gen 2 Mjolnir, they should scale to the durability of the Promethean Knights. This is because Spartans are capable of damaging them with their strikes, including tearing off their blade arm. This would be at 15 megajoules, Wall Level+. Consistent with upgraded armor, and the Spartans being able to damage and destroy a Wraith or Scorpion with multiple strikes. It's also consistent with assassination animations that show that Spartans can punch out the Warden Eternal's joints, and grapple with him.
So here is my proposal.
Master Chief should be split into two profiles. One profile would show John during the Human-Covenant War with the keys Unarmored | MkIV | MkV | MkVI
And Master Chief during the reclaimer Saga with Unarmored | Gen 2 Mjolnir | Gen 3 Mjolnir
The reasoning for this is that it will make it easier to separate Master Chief's various feats, weapons, abilities, etc exclusive to one or another part of his career. Same for other Spartans.
So the revised profiles' attack potency/durability may roughly look like this. Note that John without Mjolnir should go unchanged unless there are new feats of Spartans out of armor that need to be addressed.
Master Chief, Human-Covenant War
Attack Potency: Wall Level physically (should not be too much weaker than his MkV self), Street Level up to Building Level with Weapons | Wall Level physically (comparable to other Spartans, can fight Elites and Brutes capable of damaging Mjolnir with their strikes), Street Level, up to Building Level with weapons | Wall Level+ (His new suit is stronger than before, and has a higher strength multiplier. His strength is later compared to Spartan IV's who can damage, and tear limbs off of Promethean Knights with their strikes. Can grapple with Hunters and assassinate them. Can do significant damage to Wraith, and Scorpion tanks after multiple punches), Street Level, up to Building Level with Weapons)
Durability: Wall Level (Should be comparable to his MkV armor, can survive strikes from physically similar opponents) | Wall Level (Comparable to Fred and other Spartans who survived a terminal velocity fall), Wall Level+ With energy shields (Stated to have 15 megajoules of protection), up to Small Building Level with Overshield (Can get a temporary powerup that multiplies his shields by 3) | Wall Level+ (Comparable to the Spartan IV's whose performance is compared to Master Chief's) Small Building Level with Energy Shields (The MkVI has shields twice as powerful as its predecessor), higher with Overshields and deployable cover (Can gain a temporary powerup that multiplies his shields by 3),at least Multi-City Block level with Invincibility (Renders him virtuously impervious to all UNSC and Covenant infantry weapons, this includes Spartan Lasers, Wraith Mortars, and Scarab beam), at least Small City level with Bubble Shield (Repels all projectiles and nearly all explosions outside the bubble shield. Withstood a several Megaton Nuclear explosion)
Master Chief: Reclaimer Saga
Attack Potency: Wall Level+ (Can damage, and tear the arms off of Promethean Knights, overpowered and defeated Spartan Locke), Street Level to Building Level+ with Weapons, Multi-City Block level with the Incineration Cannon | At Least Wall Level+ (The Gen 3 Mjolnir is an upgrade from the Gen 2. Briefly traded blows with, and staggered Atriox who stomped Spartan Team Red, defeated an infamous "Spartan Killer"), Street Level to Building Level+ with Weapons, up to Multi-City-Block Level with the Incineration Cannon (Should still be able to get access to Promethean Weapons)
Durability: Wall Level+ (Comparable to the Spartan IV's, took multiple physical strikes from Spartan Locke), Small Building Level with Energy Shields, higher with Overshield, At least Multi-City-Block Level with the Hardlight Shield (Can bounce shots from the Incineration cannon) | At least Wall Level+ (Easily tanked a full power swing from Atriox's gravity hammer to the shoulder, and endured multiple full power hits and kept fighting, his armor took no visible damage aside from dislodging his AI chip), Small Building Level with Energy Shields (Should be stronger than his Gen 2 suit), higher with Overshields and Drop Shields.
Things worth noting.
In Halo 2, Master Chief crashes into In Amber Clad at high speeds. He was moving fast enough to escape the destruction of a Covenant carrier in a matter of seconds. That could be another supporting single to double digit megajoule feat.
A handheld Sentinel Beam-like weapon in Halo Infinite can ionize brutes armor and all, and Mjolnir shields can tank this narrow beam, so that's worth considering.
I already mentioned that there are other feats in Halo that are yet to be uncovered, or calced. For one, Master Chief tanking Fuel Rod cannons and Phantom Cannons should be calculated using the same method that @DarkDragonMedeus used in their blogs so that can be measured accurately, and Spartans can survive them both in gameplay, and lore. The Chief in MkVI in particular seemed to tank fuel rod cannons to his bare armor.
There are some new feats in novels written by Troy Denning. One that comes to mind was done in the MkIV, where John has 30 seconds to run away from a 1 megaton nuke, on an airless world. That's probably only going to be in the single digit megajoules being overly optimistic, but it's worth addressing.
In Shadows of Reach. John has a number of feats in his Gen 3 suit. One he punches a Banshee in a Kamikaze dive so hard, its velocity is canceled, and is sent skittering across Reach. If calced, it's probably in the single digit megajoules. He also holds up a boulder that is compared to a Warthog in size, though he needs assistance to get it over his shoulders, and he only holds it in place. Consistent with suit upgrades though. I hate doing this, but this is a Reddit thread hosting some of those feats.
Supposedly Locke Spartan charged through a statue. I have no idea where this feat can be found, but supposedly that happened. If found and calced, it could be a legit 9-B+ or low 9-A feat but that's speculative.. He also was either stated, or shown to flip over a Wraith with a ground pound. Would make for good supporting feats to establish consistency though.
So I don't think I've missed anything critical, but for the few who do care to participate, please share what needs to be included.
There's also the matter of new abilities shown by Spartans, particularly in Gen3 but that is secondary to the downgrades.
I will be focusing on Master Chief for this thread, as these changes will be applicable to everyone else who scales to and from Spartans.
Currently, Spartans' physical stats scale to this calc and to some now defunct, and debunked calculations as DarkDragonMedeus has demonstrated. Basically what I am saying is that the Boulder feat is a High-End Outlier. Spartans have now been consistently shown otherwise to have physical AP, and durability feats in the single to double digit megajoules. Weapons calced to be in the 30+ range, and especially the 100 or higher megajoules have been shown and implied to be major threats to Spartans. The boulder feat is 15-20 times higher than any other Spartan feat, so what is that if not an outlier? Especially as this is so far the only 9-A feat for Spartans.
Edit: The 15 Megajoule statement comes from a wiki that has no citations, so this cannot be used.
There's a statement in First Strike where a Spartan receives an upgrade that "doubles" the protection, and we can reasonably assume those upgrades carried over to the later armors. So Spartans with energy shields would have 9-A durability at 30 megajoules in later armors, but only barely. It has been awhile, but I will try to track that statement down if asked.
As for speed, I do not see anything in need of total revision, Supersonic-Supersonic+ has remained consistent in Spartans and their comparables. In fact, a forgotten calc here shows a legit Supersonic+ feat. So it may actually be a bit of an upgrade for Gen 2 & Gen 3 Spartans, and consistent with the armors being an upgrade.
As for lifting strength, I think everything is solid as is, but as I'll point out below, lifting strength feats in newer armors do not scale to older ones.
So how should the profiles of Spartans like Master Chief be rated? What should the new ratings be?
There is a clear difference between the performance of Spartans in MkIV, MkV Mjolnir, and the MkVI and so on.
The MkIV doesn't even have energy shields, nor can it support an AI, and that is a suit that Master Chief wore for most of his career. The MkV has shields, but they are shown, and stated to be inferior to the MkVI and on such as recharging slower, and providing less protection. The statements about Gen 2 Mjolnir being similar to Gen 1 clearly refers to the MkVI's capabilities, it wouldn't make sense for Spartan IV's to be compared to armor systems one or two iterations out of date, so any feats from the MkVI Gen 1 Mjolnir onwards do not scale to Master Chief or Spartans in the MkIV and MkV.
Good feats to scale the older suits to would be this 5 megajoule calc, and the Scorpion Missile feat at 1-3 megajoules which occured when Chief was in the MkV. It is consistent with what that iteration of Mjolnir shows.
As for MkVI/Gen 2 Mjolnir, they should scale to the durability of the Promethean Knights. This is because Spartans are capable of damaging them with their strikes, including tearing off their blade arm. This would be at 15 megajoules, Wall Level+. Consistent with upgraded armor, and the Spartans being able to damage and destroy a Wraith or Scorpion with multiple strikes. It's also consistent with assassination animations that show that Spartans can punch out the Warden Eternal's joints, and grapple with him.
So here is my proposal.
Master Chief should be split into two profiles. One profile would show John during the Human-Covenant War with the keys Unarmored | MkIV | MkV | MkVI
And Master Chief during the reclaimer Saga with Unarmored | Gen 2 Mjolnir | Gen 3 Mjolnir
The reasoning for this is that it will make it easier to separate Master Chief's various feats, weapons, abilities, etc exclusive to one or another part of his career. Same for other Spartans.
So the revised profiles' attack potency/durability may roughly look like this. Note that John without Mjolnir should go unchanged unless there are new feats of Spartans out of armor that need to be addressed.
Master Chief, Human-Covenant War
Attack Potency: Wall Level physically (should not be too much weaker than his MkV self), Street Level up to Building Level with Weapons | Wall Level physically (comparable to other Spartans, can fight Elites and Brutes capable of damaging Mjolnir with their strikes), Street Level, up to Building Level with weapons | Wall Level+ (His new suit is stronger than before, and has a higher strength multiplier. His strength is later compared to Spartan IV's who can damage, and tear limbs off of Promethean Knights with their strikes. Can grapple with Hunters and assassinate them. Can do significant damage to Wraith, and Scorpion tanks after multiple punches), Street Level, up to Building Level with Weapons)
Durability: Wall Level (Should be comparable to his MkV armor, can survive strikes from physically similar opponents) | Wall Level (Comparable to Fred and other Spartans who survived a terminal velocity fall), Wall Level+ With energy shields (
Master Chief: Reclaimer Saga
Attack Potency: Wall Level+ (Can damage, and tear the arms off of Promethean Knights, overpowered and defeated Spartan Locke), Street Level to Building Level+ with Weapons, Multi-City Block level with the Incineration Cannon | At Least Wall Level+ (The Gen 3 Mjolnir is an upgrade from the Gen 2. Briefly traded blows with, and staggered Atriox who stomped Spartan Team Red, defeated an infamous "Spartan Killer"), Street Level to Building Level+ with Weapons, up to Multi-City-Block Level with the Incineration Cannon (Should still be able to get access to Promethean Weapons)
Durability: Wall Level+ (Comparable to the Spartan IV's, took multiple physical strikes from Spartan Locke), Small Building Level with Energy Shields, higher with Overshield, At least Multi-City-Block Level with the Hardlight Shield (Can bounce shots from the Incineration cannon) | At least Wall Level+ (Easily tanked a full power swing from Atriox's gravity hammer to the shoulder, and endured multiple full power hits and kept fighting, his armor took no visible damage aside from dislodging his AI chip), Small Building Level with Energy Shields (Should be stronger than his Gen 2 suit), higher with Overshields and Drop Shields.
Things worth noting.
In Halo 2, Master Chief crashes into In Amber Clad at high speeds. He was moving fast enough to escape the destruction of a Covenant carrier in a matter of seconds. That could be another supporting single to double digit megajoule feat.
A handheld Sentinel Beam-like weapon in Halo Infinite can ionize brutes armor and all, and Mjolnir shields can tank this narrow beam, so that's worth considering.
I already mentioned that there are other feats in Halo that are yet to be uncovered, or calced. For one, Master Chief tanking Fuel Rod cannons and Phantom Cannons should be calculated using the same method that @DarkDragonMedeus used in their blogs so that can be measured accurately, and Spartans can survive them both in gameplay, and lore. The Chief in MkVI in particular seemed to tank fuel rod cannons to his bare armor.
There are some new feats in novels written by Troy Denning. One that comes to mind was done in the MkIV, where John has 30 seconds to run away from a 1 megaton nuke, on an airless world. That's probably only going to be in the single digit megajoules being overly optimistic, but it's worth addressing.
In Shadows of Reach. John has a number of feats in his Gen 3 suit. One he punches a Banshee in a Kamikaze dive so hard, its velocity is canceled, and is sent skittering across Reach. If calced, it's probably in the single digit megajoules. He also holds up a boulder that is compared to a Warthog in size, though he needs assistance to get it over his shoulders, and he only holds it in place. Consistent with suit upgrades though. I hate doing this, but this is a Reddit thread hosting some of those feats.
Supposedly Locke Spartan charged through a statue. I have no idea where this feat can be found, but supposedly that happened. If found and calced, it could be a legit 9-B+ or low 9-A feat but that's speculative.. He also was either stated, or shown to flip over a Wraith with a ground pound. Would make for good supporting feats to establish consistency though.
So I don't think I've missed anything critical, but for the few who do care to participate, please share what needs to be included.
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