Haku vs Roronoa Zoro

[KingTempest]

He should, he was just overlooked like a lot of the characters in the fear thread.
Kurama's chakra has fear hax, and he was fine when exposed to it, and he's exposed to Zabuza's killing intent on the regular.

So he can resist it. Fine.

He has no feats of starting fights with lightspeed movement.
Zoro cuts before mirrors form.

 

[theultimate5105]

Haku FRA

 

[Bernkastelll]

it will depend if Haku really starts with lightspeed, I guess I will wait more comments

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He has no feats of starting fights with lightspeed movement.
Zoro cuts before mirrors form.

This discussion is moot for one reason. Speed is equalized here, meaning that even if Haku starts by throwing needles, and then they get casually deflected, what stops him from immediately jumping back and forming the mirrors? Haku isn't stupid, and this is literally what he did once he started getting "pressured" by Sasuke. He immediately went into the mirrors.

Once he finds that Zoro is a stronger opponent than himself, which a single clash will easily reveal, he'll immediately jump to his only possible option.

Really, the discussion should be how likely Zoro is to one shot with his first move, if anything.

 

[KingTempest]

it will depend if Haku really starts with lightspeed, I guess I will wait more comments

The dishonest "needles are LS" and "he starts with LS" already got him 3 extra FRAs so idm.

His page specifically says travel.

Equalizing speed with someone w/ a massive speed amp to where it's blitz level right after Haku gets LS was already a recipe for spite.

This discussion is moot for one reason. Speed is equalized here, meaning that even if Haku starts by throwing needles, and then they get casually deflected, what stops him from immediately jumping back and forming the mirrors? Haku isn't stupid, and this is literally what he did once he started getting "pressured" by Sasuke. He immediately went into the mirrors.

Once he finds that Zoro is a stronger opponent than himself, which a single clash will easily reveal, he'll immediately jump to his only possible option.

Really, the discussion should be how likely Zoro is to one shot with his first move, if anything.

SBA states

The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is

Zoro's range is hundreds of meters. He gets a range advantage and he can throw slices before Haku can start his bs

 

[Rez]

Really, the discussion should be how likely Zoro is to one shot with his first move, if anything.

Very likely since in enies lobby Zoro started with his dura neg move against kaku

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Zoro's range is hundreds of meters. He gets a range advantage and he can throw slices before Haku can start his bs

I mean, that would be the worst possible way for him to start, because at equal speed and with such a distance between them, Haku will simply dodge. Now he'll know that he's dealing with someone stronger and immediately go for the mirrors.

I think cqc gives Zoro the best chance to one shot honestly.
Plus, since we're going with "what's in character", when has Zoro started a fight with ranged attacks anyway? Especially pre-TS, I don't remember that many instances where he started with it.

 

[Rez]

I mean, that would be the worst possible way for him to start, because at equal speed and with such a distance between them, Haku will simply dodge. Now he'll know that he's dealing with someone stronger and immediately go for the mirrors.

Why though his dura neg move actually looks weaker than his normal strikes

 

[M3X_2.0]

Best girl FRA.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Proof he's not just throwing the needles?
Because the anime, which you used in your thread to get this accepted, and which is secondary canon to elaborate on canon, shows clearly that he was just THROWING NEEDLES.

I never used the anime in my CRT at all, you're actually a straight up pathological dishonest liar. Everything I used was from the manga.

Is Zabuza pushing his bloodlust and killing intent outwards when Haku from a very far range throws needles at him? No. That's like me getting resistance to sleep hax because I stand next to someone else who's focused on
Haku doesn't have a single feat of resisting someone's fearhax directed at them except Kurama's chakra, which doesn't have feats comparable to Zoro's fearhax w/ paralysis.

It wasn't directed at Sasuke either, yet he felt it. The only time he felt it was when Zabuza looked at him.

You can't shit on my literation then not read what I said.
I never said he didn't use mirrors. I specifically made sure I didn't send that.
I said verbatim

Which he didn't do to them when he started the match.

I said mirrors, you didn't, because this is serious Haku. This is because Sasuke said he wanted to take him on, and engaged in CQC whilst, unserious and trying to spare him. So unless your argument is that Haku is going to not start with his bread-and-butter against an opponent who can ONE SHOT HIM, your argument is horrible.

It did not say "sent out of the mirrors", it says "sent out by this literal light-speed movement" like you said.
The lightspeed movement, which is him moving, not the needles, is the one that the sentence is referring to

It verbatim says "For Haku, it’s possible to move between the mirrors at the speed of light. It’s impossible to see attacks send out from this literal light speed movement."

Which is consistent with him blitzing Sai with the needles, in his mirror, and Sasuke.

Never says "all his attacks" or "his needles", so no.

Stop accusing me of bullshit. Haku doesn't shoot needles at lightspeed, and he doesn't start a fight moving at lightspeed.
Simple.

It doesn't have to, because it's consistent with him being light-speed, and his attacks being light-speed, as both Naruto, Sasuke, and Sai were unable to see his light-speed movement, and the attacks that came from this.

But I'm done, I'm not going to waste my time arguing back and forward with a consistent dishonest liar who twists arguments, mispresents what's been argued off the profile, manga, and databooks. I still vote Haku, and nothing changes.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alright guys, c'mon, let's chill out please. It's not worth getting worked up over.

 

[KingTempest]

I mean, that would be the worst possible way for him to start, because at equal speed and with such a distance between them, Haku will simply dodge. Now he'll know that he's dealing with someone stronger and immediately go for the mirrors.

I think cqc gives Zoro the best chance to one shot honestly.
Plus, since we're going with "what's in character", when has Zoro started a fight with ranged attacks anyway? Especially pre-TS, I don't remember that many instances where he started with it.

Exhibit A.
Exhibit B.
Exhibit C.
Exhibit D.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'm fine, but when someone continues to misrepresent what's on the profiles and blatantly lies consistently, then I will call it out.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Well, Haku FRA then

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Exhibit A.
Exhibit B.
Exhibit C.
Exhibit D.

I mean, really, four instances out of probably dozens pre-TS is enough for it to be in character?
In any case, almost all of these were against fodder, so with equalized speed, I still think Haku will simply dodge at that distance.
CQC is Zoro's best bet to start with IMO.

 

[KingTempest]

I never used the anime in my CRT at all, you're actually a straight up pathological dishonest liar. Everything I used was from the manga.

You make a mistake and you're a pathological dishonest liar. There's been so many Naruto CRTs open that I mistake which one it was, and I'm a pathological liar.
You should've known I made a mistake when I said "got this accepted", you should've said "I didn't make the LS Haku CRT" instead of insults.

I forgot who made the CRT and whoever did used the anime. Apologies. Now, w/e.

It wasn't directed at Sasuke either, yet he felt it. The only time he felt it was when Zabuza looked at him.

We don't even see Zabuza so this point is moot.

I said mirrors, you didn't, because this is serious Haku. This is because Sasuke said he wanted to take him on, and engaged in CQC whilst, unserious and trying to spare him. So unless your argument is that Haku is going to not start with his bread-and-butter against an opponent who can ONE SHOT HIM, your argument is horrible.

Ok.

I don't give a damn if it's serious Haku or half dead Haku or playing around Haku.
Haku never started a fight moving at lightspeed.

It verbatim says "For Haku, it’s possible to move between the mirrors at the speed of light. It’s impossible to see attacks send out from this literal light speed movement."

Which is consistent with him blitzing Sai with the needles, in his mirror, and Sasuke.

No. The only thing that's consistent is the blitzing, not everything moving at lightspeed.

That's like saying I have a single attack that's lightning speed, then I blitz someone who's slower than me, making all of my attacks lightning speed.
Consistent my ass.

It doesn't have to, because it's consistent with him being light-speed, and his attacks being light-speed, as both Naruto, Sasuke, and Sai were unable to see his light-speed movement, and the attacks that came from this.

No. Having 1 attack that's lightspeed doesn't mean that all of his attacks are lightspeed.
The only thing lightspeed is his shunshin while Mirrors are activated.
They say mirror to mirror and you say BS.

But I'm done, I'm not going to waste my time arguing back and forward with a consistent dishonest liar who twists arguments, mispresents what's been argued off the profile, manga, and databooks. I still vote Haku, and nothing changes.

I vote Zoro.

The profile says "travels at lightspeed" and Milly pulled out "throw needles at lightspeed" out of their ass. So if you want to vote Haku because they threw more insults, go ahead. Unfollowing.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

You make a mistake and you're a pathological dishonest liar. There's been so many Naruto CRTs open that I mistake which one it was, and I'm a pathological liar.
You should've known I made a mistake when I said "got this accepted", you should've said "I didn't make the LS Haku CRT" instead of insults.

I forgot who made the CRT and whoever did used the anime. Apologies. Now, w/e.

I frankly don’t care about other CRTs, I’m talking about this thread and my CRT.

We don't even see Zabuza so this point is moot.

Are you actually kidding? He’s literally describing Zabuza, you actually are dishonest as hell.

Ok.

I don't give a damn if it's serious Haku or half dead Haku or playing around Haku.
Haku never started a fight moving at lightspeed.

Did it with Sai. Did it with Naruto and Sasuke once serious. Your argument is literally Haku will not use his strongest attacks against someone who could kill him.

No. The only thing that's consistent is the blitzing, not everything moving at lightspeed.

That's like saying I have a single attack that's lightning speed, then I blitz someone who's slower than me, making all of my attacks lightning speed.
Consistent my ass.

He throw the needles that Sasuke and Naruto couldn’t react to. He threw needles Sai couldn’t react to. Databook says it’s impossible to see the attacks from his light-speed movements. That’s straight up 3 consistent sources.

No. Having 1 attack that's lightspeed doesn't mean that all of his attacks are lightspeed.

Never even stated that, only in the MIRRORS is his movement and attacks lightspeed.

The only thing lightspeed is his shunshin while Mirrors are activated.

Where is this stated that he uses Shunshin?

They say mirror to mirror and you say BS.

He literally used one mirror to Sai, and one mirror back. That’s the evidence I’ve been using this whole time.

The profile says "travels at lightspeed" and Milly pulled out "throw needles at lightspeed" out of their ass. So if you want to vote Haku because they threw more insults, go ahead. Unfollowing.

I gathered consistent scans to support my arguments, you dishonestly represented them and lied to prove your fallacious fictitious points. I never insulted you, I attacked your credibility, if you want to report me, be my guest.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't report people, that's petty

Milly_Rocking_Bandit, Rez, Loyd, TheUltimate, M3X, and Bernkastelll voted Haku

I vote Haku via unfair speed advantage. 7, match over

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That’s grace, then.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Speed equal means inconclusive Imo. Haku's only shot would be freezing Zoro or getting really accurate acupuncture wounds. Zoro's pain tolerance is ridiculous. Haku needs to get Zoro within the mirrors in order to have a chance at loading up enough shots to actually hit zero in an area that can end this fight. Zoro has dealt with long-range attacks similarly in the past, namely Kaku's Rankakyu Ran and Rankakyu Kiri Shigure. I don't believe Haku's throws are light speed, just that he can zap through the mirrors immediately after making his throws giving him psuedo teleportation. Haku needs to end Zoro quickly though because he will easily survive non mortal hits and then just bust a tatsumaki. Once haku falls within Shi-Shi son son range and Zoro gets serious I don't see him getting out. With speed being the biggest factor here and it being equalized I can just as likely see Haku severing Zoro's carotid as I can Zoro hanging on long enough to make a tornado and bust the mirrors/haku up and land a follow up kill.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Im fairly sure it was accepted that Haku's SOL was only done so via travelling and not Combat speed applicable.

 

[KingTempest]

You're 60 messages late

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

You're 60 messages late

This is the earliest I've ever been late.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Im fairly sure it was accepted that Haku's SOL was only done so via travelling and not Combat speed applicable.

It’s even on the profile, the attacks he makes are impossible to deal with because they’re light speed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Though, I’ll probably make a CRT to clarify this.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Haku's only shot would be freezing Zoro or getting really accurate acupuncture wounds.

Yeah, everyone is aware of that, that’s one of his wincons.

Zoro's pain tolerance is ridiculous.

Yeah, aware, that’s why needle knockout or death are his only options.

Haku needs to get Zoro within the mirrors in order to have a chance at loading up enough shots to actually hit zero in an area that can end this fight.

It only takes one sign to create a mirror or the whole thing.

I don't believe Haku's throws are light speed, just that he can zap through the mirrors immediately after making his throws giving him psuedo teleportation.

He does it to Sasuke, blitzing from all directions while moving and throwing senbon.

Once haku falls within Shi-Shi son son range and Zoro gets serious I don't see him getting out. With speed being the biggest factor here and it being equalized I can just as likely see Haku severing Zoro's carotid as I can Zoro hanging on long enough to make a tornado and bust the mirrors/haku up and land a follow up kill

I doubt he’ll fall into range of it, as there will be like dozens of Haku’s to choose from, which is why Tatsumaki was suggested instead, but Haku’s superior speed and knowledge of pressure points would counteract.

 

[Purgy]

Umm no, Haku was only accepted to be able to move at light speed, that was like, the entire reason it was even accepted, being able to attack or react at those speeds was never accepted, it even states on his profile that it's light speed traveling.

If you want to argue he can attack and react at those speeds, then I'm fine with another CRT being made re-labelling it as an outlier, you don't get to pick and choose.

As far as I'm concerned, any votes based on Haku being able to attack at light speed should be considered invalid.

Also, as for my vote, it goes to Zoro, he literally one shots and Haku isn't going to use his mirrors in time, nor would he be able to.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

If you want to argue he can attack and react at those speeds, then I'm fine with another CRT being made re-labelling it as an outlier, you don't get to pick and choose.

What in the world are you talking about? He does this on multiple occasions, which absolutely no one scales to. How is it an outlier when he does it, the Databook says it, and no one scale?

It’s quite literally on his profile. “It’s impossible to see attacks sent out by this literal light-speed movement.”

We went over Naruto and Sasuke don’t scale as he was suppressed and didn’t want to kill them, then he was weakened against KCM0 Naruto. No one scales to his speed, or attacks, simple as that.

 

[Purgy]

What in the world are you talking about? He does this on multiple occasions, which absolutely no one scales to. How is it an outlier when he does it, the Databook says it, and no one scale?

It’s quite literally on his profile. “It’s impossible to see attacks sent out by this literal light-speed movement.”

We went over Naruto and Sasuke don’t scale as he was suppressed and didn’t want to kill them, then he was weakened against KCM0 Naruto. No one scales to his speed, or attacks, simple as that.

Holding back doesn't make you thousands of times slower, not to mention that there's zero evidence he was holding back his speed, he was holding back by not trying to kill them with his attacks, also how can he even hold back his speed? He's reflecting, he doesn't get to decide how fast he reflects, prove otherwise.

Not being at maximum chakra =/= being thousands of times slower, we have no indication as to how weakened he was, all we know is that he said he needed to end the fight before he runs out of chakra.

Naruto blitzed him, Sasuke reacted to half a dozen of his attacks and even outpaced him at one point, so sorry, but your argument of nobody scaling to him is completely disingenuous and an attempt at concealing an outlier.

Afaik, not a single staff member actually agreed with lightspeed combat speed and reactions, in fact, I know for sure at least 4 or 5 staff members in that thread directly disagreed with the thing entirely.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Holding back doesn't make you thousands of times slower, not to mention that there's zero evidence he was holding back his speed, he was holding back by not trying to kill them with his attacks.

The light-speed CRT had stated on multiple occasions he was holding back, and trying not to kill them. Neither Sasuke or Naruto could react to him at all in the slightest.

ot being at maximum chakra =/= being thousands of times slower, we have no indication as to how weakened he was, all we know is that he said he needed to end the fight before he runs out of chakra.

We don’t, however, again, AT NO POINT did Naruto nor Sasuke react to Haku, he was suppressed, not trying to kill him, and weakened.

Naruto blitzed him, Sasuke reacted to half a dozen of his attacks and even outpaced him at one point.

Absolutely false. Naruto never blitzed him at point. If you actually look at Haku’s profile, he reacts to KCM0 Naruto, and makes him dodge. Sasuke at NO POINT outpaces Haku, because:

A.) He was out of the mirror, engaging in CQC.
B.) Zabuza tells him to get serious, or he’ll die to the people he wants to spare, verbatim.
C.) When he begins to see Haku’s movements, again, he is weakened, suppressed, and NOT trying to kill them.

Him having light-speed attacks is very consistent as no one scales to him, and no one ever reacted to him at his full strength.

You are recycling the same arguments that got you debunked on the thread.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This is also backed up by when Haku physically moves out of the mirror, Might Guy and Lee can hit him. However, when he reflects at Sai, and strikes him with Senbon in the mirror, he gets blitzed and damaged.

 

[Purgy]

The light-speed CRT had stated on multiple occasions he was holding back, and trying not to kill them. Neither Sasuke or Naruto could react to him at all in the slightest.



We don’t, however, again, AT NO POINT did Naruto nor Sasuke react to Haku, he was suppressed, not trying to kill him, and weakened.

Absolutely false. Naruto never blitzed him at point. If you actually look at Haku’s profile, he reacts to KCM0 Naruto, and makes him dodge. Sasuke at NO POINT outpaces Haku, because:

A.) He was out of the mirror, engaging in CQC.
B.) Zabuza tells him to get serious, or he’ll die to the people he wants to spare, verbatim.
C.) When he begins to see Haku’s movements, again, he is weakened, suppressed, and NOT trying to kill them.

Him having light-speed attacks is very consistent as no one scales to him, and no one ever reacted to him at his full strength.

You are recycling the same arguments that got you debunked on the lig

No point derailing this, I'll just make a separate thread for clarification.

Just to add though, the staff that disagreed with the entire thing heavily outweighed those that agreed.

Damage, DarkDragonMedeus, LordGriffith1000, ShadowBokuNoHero (disagreed with it applying to combat/reaction speed), KingTempest (evidently disagrees with lightspeed combat/reactions given his posts in this thread)

The only staff member that flat out agreed was Planck69 and I'm not even entirely sure if he agrees with lightspeed combat/reactions since his post was early into the thread and the OP never made mention of giving Haku lightspeed combat/reactions in his original post.

I really have no idea why the thing was even accepted to begin with.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

No point derailing this, I'll just make a thread for clarification.

Already way ahead of you, lemme finish mine.

 

[Purgy]

Already way ahead of you, lemme finish mine.

I'm making a Q&A thread asking if it was accepted to be applied to combat/reactions since even staff members that participated in that thread (KingTempest and ShadowBokuNoHero) aren't aware that that was a thing.

I'm not making a CRT, yet.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'm making a Q&A thread asking if it was accepted to be applied to combat/reactions since even staff members that participated in that thread (KingTempest and ShadowBokuNoHero) aren't aware that that was a thing.

I'm not making a CRT, yet.

Rocker also mentioned combat, iirc. Again, no one would even scale to this, so I don’t know why it would be a big deal.

 

[Purgy]

Rocker also mentioned combat, iirc. Again, no one would even scale to this, so I don’t know why it would be a big deal.

It doesn't really matter whether or not you think it would be a big deal though

What matters is what the staff agreed with, and as far as I can see, nobody actually directly agreed with lightspeed combat and reactions, and to be honest, the entire thread doesn't even appear to have been accepted if we go with the staff consensus which is heavily in favor of disagreeing with the whole thing.

Wait a minute, I just noticed that the original CRT isn't even closed yet, in that case, it can be continued there.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Staff aren’t everything, more people agreed than disagreed overall, with OP making good points and staff making the same recurring points.

 

[Purgy]

Staff aren’t everything, more people agreed than disagreed overall, with OP making good points and staff making the same recurring points.

Unfortunately, you're flat out wrong on that.

As much as I hate to admit it, staff's opinions are everything here for CRT's.

Regular members voting doesn't mean anything, if that was how things worked, people could get whatever they want accepted by bruteforcing with biased votes.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Unfortunately, you're flat out wrong on that.

As much as I hate to admit it, staff's opinions are everything here for CRT's.

Regular members voting doesn't mean anything, if that was how things worked, people could get whatever they want accepted by bruteforcing with biased votes.

Yes, I’m aware how imbalanced mods-to-members are, which is why many users have a strong disdain for this site, and why I’m becoming less fond of it. Regardless, please make the Q&A, I’ll come with my response, and make it as detailed as possible.

 

[Purgy]

Yes, I’m aware how imbalanced mods-to-members are, which is why many users have a strong disdain for this site, and why I’m becoming less fond of it. Regardless, please make the Q&A, I’ll come with my response, and make it as detailed as possible.

At least we can agree on something.

As for the Q&A thread, I've decided to just continue the original CRT thread with my post, I wasn't aware it was still open originally.