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Haku CRT

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Milly_Rocking_Bandit

Milly_Rocking_Bandit

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Just here to revise one of my favorite characters in the series, picking up off the last CRT, where the days of light speed hyperbole are finally gone.

Haku should be solid 7-C.

• Zabuza grossly overpowers Kakashi, even after he pulls out his Sharingan. (Naruto, Chapter 13.)

• Naruto even believes he killed Zabuza, after Haku knocks him out, which even Kakashi's copied Water Dragon couldn't do. (Naruto, Chapter 15.)

• Upon beating Zabuza, Kakashi takes one look at Haku and deduces him to be in a different league than Naruto and Sasuke, and immediately admits Haku is stronger. (Naruto, Chapter 16.)

On the second fight, it's not more of the same, as Zabuza vs Kakashi is more strategy-based this time around. Zabuza knows how to deal with Kakashi's Sharingan and uses mist against him, Kakashi lets himself bleed to get his Ninja Pups in the fight, they pin him down, he goes for the Raikiri. However, the dialogue between that fight is what is important:

• Zabuza says Kakashi can't beat Haku, and Zabuza says his skill exceed his. (Naruto, Chapter 26.)

With all of this, I think it is very clear that Haku is a solid 7-C. Now, let's get any potential arguments out of the way:

"Sasuke could catch up with his speed, and damage him."

• Haku was stated to not want to kill, on multiple occasions. (Naruto, Chapter 24.)

• Now, for the most controversial part of the CRT, KCM0 vs Alive Haku.

• From the beginning, Haku is stated to be suppressed against Sasuke, and later, he doesn't want to even kill them. (Naruto, Chapter 25.)

• Haku's ice mirrors drain a great deal of chakra. (Naruto, Chapter 27.)

• And even at the very end, at Haku's death, he's stated to have been never trying from the start. (Naruto, Chapter 33.)

So, with all of these, we can confirm we have never seen Haku's full potential. Now, onto the actual fight:

• KCM0 Naruto has a bigger chakra pool than Kakashi. (Naruto, Chapter 28.)

• Haku can react and make KCM0 Naruto dodge. (Naruto, Chapter 28.)

• Haku takes a punch from KMC0 Naruto with only blood and scratches, but admits he's finished. (Naruto, Chapter 28.)

• However, this same weakened Haku still has enough strength and chakra to restrain Base Naruto, and blitz Kakashi from far away. (Naruto, Chapter 30.)

Now, I wanted to bring attention to another Jonin-level ninja, Neji Hyuga. Before you question why he's being brought up in a completely unrelated thread about Haku, let's take a look at Neji's performance against KCM0.

• Neji reacts to KMC0, and evenly clashes with him, twice. (Naruto, Chapter 104.)

• Keep in mind, this Naruto shows even more Kyuubi Chakra than he did in the Forest of Death, and it actually physically manifests against Haku, just like Neji. (Naruto, Chapter 104 ; Chapter 48.)

• Kidomaru is stated to be stronger than Jirobo, and Neji is stated to be the strongest of the group. (Naruto, Chapter 193).

At the end of this, why does this even matter? I say this because, Haku has never been seen at his full power. However, even with the feats he's shown, he's shown marginal attempts of keeping up with KMC0 while weakened, and has recurrently been stated to be stronger than both Zabuza and Kakashi. Yet Neji, another Jonin level opponent, can evenly clash with this KCM0 Naruto, with a basic kunai, and a rotation. This seems to imply that if Haku had actually been trying to kill them, and hadn't lost so much chakra in the fight against Base Naruto and Sasuke, he could've kept up with KCM0. This isn't completely unfounded either, as there are dozens of other statements of Neji being called a monster like Gaara, and being able take Dosu down all by himself. Of course, this would retroactively make certain other characters 7-C, such as Neji, Gaara, the Sound 4, and I don't know how this will all be handled, but those are my current thoughts.

Anyways, onto Edo Haku:

• Edo Haku is stated to be stronger.

• This is consistent with Haku taking strikes from Lee, then both Lee and Might Guy, a jonin. (Naruto, Chapter 522.)

I'm unsure how much stronger, as him being able to take on Jonin level opponents has been consistent with even his alive state. Even Kabuto said he perfected the Reanimation, meaning his power shouldn't be nerfed. Also, lastly, Haku should just be Massively Hypersonic+, as he constantly keeps up with Jonin level opponents and the other Supersonic people he fought he was heavily suppressed against, and trying not to kill them.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Of course, this would retroactively make certain other characters 7-C, such as Neji, Gaara, the Sound 4, and I don't know how this will all be handled, but those are my current thoughts.
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I agree with the majority of the OP, although I would prefer if we don’t touch anyone other than Haku here, I plan on handling them during my Part I revision.
 
I don't think KN0 should be 7-C/Haku Tier/Kakashi Tier. This makes 3 Tomoe Sasuke able to stomp Kakashi and such. We know he can't.
 
M3X said:
I don't think KN0 should be 7-C/Haku Tier/Kakashi Tier. This makes 3 Tomoe Sasuke able to stomp Kakashi and such. We know he can't.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Part I is really weird in scaling. I thought about all that stuff too, and I don’t know how that’s to be interpreted. Kyuubi Chakra is really powerful, and that Sasuke was amped by the Curse Mark’s power, seeing as he got strong enough to whoop Naruto when they first saw each other in the Valley, but idk.
 
I mean the CRT is not necessarily trying to push for Naruto to be that.

Just establishing that that version of Naruto fighting haku does not lock haku from scaling to 7-c
 
M3X said:
I don't think KN0 should be 7-C/Haku Tier/Kakashi Tier. This makes 3 Tomoe Sasuke able to stomp Kakashi and such. We know he can't.
Click to expand...
It's not that farfetched, he countered a Rasengan which one shotted Kabuto who's Kakashi level (with a chidori though but still).
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Yeah, Part I is really weird in scaling. I thought about all that stuff too, and I don’t know how that’s to be interpreted. Kyuubi Chakra is really powerful, and that Sasuke was amped by the Curse Mark’s power, seeing as he got strong enough to whoop Naruto when they first saw each other in the Valley, but idk.
Click to expand...
The reason why Sasuke got so strong is because he underwent a ritual thanks to the Sound 4 to boost his power and unlock CS2 (I think it made his Base Form as strong as his Pre Ritual CS1 but IDK).
 
BlastX said:
The reason why Sasuke got so strong is because he underwent a ritual thanks to the Sound 4 to boost his power and unlock CS2 (I think it made his Base Form as strong as his Pre Ritual CS1 but IDK).
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Yeah, I was actually just talking about it now, it doesn’t seem far fetched at all anymore, especially since these kids reach Jonin level pretty fast.
 
I mean, I do think Sasuke's base form got stronger, because ****** was playing with KN0 Naruto in base and all of his attacks made Naruto bleed/sent him flying. But really, Sasuke can't take on Kakashi and do with him what he did to Naruto
 
I agree with Haku thing completely but I think that Naruto Vs. Haku > The Naruto Vs. Neji (he got a bigger rage boost & got much bigger amps than usual when his friends need him
Vs. Zabuza even in That dangerous situation he was only able to make tens of shadow clones while vs. Mizuki he made 1000 shadow clones & 2,000 against Gaara)
Also wasnt he just learning to use a lit bit of kurama's Chakara ?! In that vs Haku his eyes were red & he literally turned into something which we can call 0 tailed Form while Vs. Neji as far as I remember (I could be wrong) his eyes were still blue
So that was KCM0 vs. Haku & Vs. Neji its just using a lit bit of kurama's chakra on top of his own (also he used it when all of his chakra points were shut down)
Now maybe I could be wrong here again but thats how I See it otherwise neji scales to Sharingan kakashi I dont think thats the case its pretty much unlikely As Base Guy very easily deflects gaara's attacks & Guy is obviously likely much above neji & Kakashi is comparable to Guy now its not proper reasoning I know but its very unlikely that neji scales to one of the srongest jonins ever back then
Neji Could scale to normal jonins & anbus but kakashi was above them by a decent margin
Not to mention the Sound 4 were drained & panting after fighting two tokubetsu jonin who were out of chakra after their Mission pretty sure kakashi scales above them & The sound 4 together a Team >>>individually obviously
 
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Yeah, for now, we’ll try to leave Neji and others alone, and see where they scale to later. For now, I’m just trying to make Haku 7-C, and Massively Hypersonic for now.
 
LightReinh12345 said:
I agree with Haku thing completely but I think that Naruto Vs. Haku > The Naruto Vs. Neji (he got a bigger rage boost & got much bigger amps than usual when his friends need him
Vs. Zabuza even in That dangerous situation he was only able to make tens of shadow clones while vs. Mizuki he made 1000 shadow clones & 2,000 against Gaara)
Also wasnt he just learning to use a lit bit of kurama's Chakara ?! In that vs Haku his eyes were red & he literally turned into something which we can call 0 tailed Form while Vs. Neji as far as I remember (I could be wrong) his eyes were still blue
So that was KCM0 vs. Haku & Vs. Neji its just using a lit bit of kurama's chakra on top of his own (also he used it when all of his chakra points were shut down)
Now maybe I could be wrong here again but thats how I See it otherwise neji scales to Sharingan kakashi I dont think thats the case its pretty much unlikely As Base Guy very easily deflects gaara's attacks & Guy is obviously likely much above neji & Kakashi is comparable to Guy now its not proper reasoning I know but its very unlikely that neji scales to one of the srongest jonins ever back then
Neji Could scale to normal jonins & anbus but kakashi was above them by a decent margin
Not to mention the Sound 4 were drained & panting after fighting two tokubetsu jonin who were out of chakra after their Mission pretty sure kakashi scales above them & The sound 4 together a Team >>>individually obviously
Click to expand...
I think it was stated that while Kakashi can solo a S4, two fighting together would kill him.
 
BlastX said:
I think it was stated that while Kakashi can solo a S4, two fighting together would kill him.
Click to expand...
Didnt they themselves only state that?! Did they even See kakashi in action?! Wasnt kakashi recovering back then?!? & As far as I remember they get higher boost fighting together rather than fighting individually I will check that though if there is any implications like that though (like its not a simple Addition or something) & they say they can have his neck but....
 
They know Kabuto who's equal to Kakashi, so they probably have an idea of how strong he is.
 
All that really matters is that Kakashi is stronger than any of the Sound Four individually.
 
BlastX said:
They know Kabuto who's equal to Kakashi, so they probably have an idea of how strong he is.
Click to expand...
They work under kabuto & did kabuto/orochimaru ever state that kabuto was kakashi level in Front of them?! Idk
As far as I remember those jonins were drained of chakra (they just came from a Mission) against the sound four they fought all four of them & after that fight they were panting & I guess they were still recovering while fighting choji & neji & neji barely beat Kimimaro if some of those attacks landed it would be gg & by haku logic Neji scales to haku who is above kakashi
I don't think so that neji is kakashi lvl or above due to the reasons I provided but lets not talk about neji we are already derailing this thread
 
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