Hakai Revision

[LordGriffin1000]

I guess that's fine if we treat them as separate attacks, Both supposedly would have had the same outcome just delivered differently.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I believe the point of what Joe is trying to say that there's pretty big implications of the fact that this durability ignoring technique being dependent on durability, given that both, Frieza and Goku survived it and experienced pain from what should've been instant deletion.

 

[Ryukama]

Well from what I have seen, if someone has a resistance to a dura negating one shot attack, it might take longer for it to to affect them as they're negating the usefulness of the power.

So the fact it didn't one shot them alone wouldn't mean it's not dura negating. But the fact it directly relies on strength and can be negated by anyone of a certain level does IMO.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

It could just be that there ki gives natural resistance to durability negation and stronger ki can over come that resistance

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Ryukama.

 

[Dark649]

This video explains very well the situation we are in.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Pretty much saying that these are two different attacks.

 

[PaChi2]

You could say that higher ki gives higher resistance to energy based attacks.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I think it simply doesn't work on stronger opponents.

 

[Golden_Void]

Don't forget that Beerus threatened to Hakai Goku right to his face after the Zen exhibition match, so it still works. Goku didn't improve at all from then to now, until he trained with Whis. Doesn't matter.

Energy of destruction = a ki based version of the attack where if you can't resist it or overcome it, you're going poof. It's kinda like the spirit bomb, where Goku gave it to Krillin in the Saiyan saga to throw at Vegeta, same concept. Frieza was also able to resist the Spirit Bomb too, IIRC.

........................................

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the consensus seems to be that given the evidence, hakai does not work on stronger opponents, and as such cannot count as durability negation.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's still an OHK attack that bypasses up to Low Godly regen if you're equal or lesser tho.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Golden_Void]

Then if someone regenerated from Hakai (prepare for the wank if that day comes), would the regen be mid-godly if the Hakai wasn't complete, or only if they were completely erased and come back?

 

[Primaris_Brian]

But not DS Low-Gody Regen.

 

[Antvasima]

Only if they were erased and returned.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

However, I feel that video Dark posted should at least be addressed.

 

[Kaltias]

Honestly I still think that we should wait. We don't have enough informations to work with

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I...agree with Kaltias.

 

[Antvasima]

Wait before we remove the durability negation trait from the Beerus and Champa profiles?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah.

 

[Kaltias]

I don't honestly care about them having durability negation or not, but if I have to be onest, this debate about "it's Hakai or destruction energy and how does this change things" is basically a debate about headcanon. I can say that God Ki gives resistance to existence erasure when powerful enough or that this happened just because it wasn't a GoD who was using it and neither of these two statements can be proven wrong or right at the moment.

So yes, I think that we should wait before removing it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again, I concur with Kaltias.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with Kaltias. Hopefully the Post ToP Revision doesn't get derailed with Hakai arguments tho....

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Ryukama]

I agree with Kaltias. Hopefully the Post ToP Revision doesn't get derailed with Hakai arguments tho....

I'm sure some far more controversial stuff in the future will derail the conversation lol

But yeah I can agree with Kaltias.

 

[Kaltias]

There is always the option to make a separate thread to discuss this while everything else that comes up during the Tournament can be discussed in another one. It's a nuisance but it's functional

 

[Antvasima]

So, should we close this thread?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yup.