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Hajun vs Akuto Sai

Hajun's power simply can't be measured by "Taikyoku value". It's utterly unquantifiable as it has "risen past the limits", effectively breaking the entire Taikyoku scale. Best you can do is scale him off Yato with "transcending a Hadou God as much as they transcend mortals".

You can have a god with any set value of Taikyoku, but no matter how high they are, they'll still get M E T S U J I N M E S S O U'd
 
You mean the line yato said "comparing a God to a human" though what kind of god is this is he referring? Hadou gods? Or some Christian god that isnt even low 2-C?
 
What kind of question is that? Yato only knows about the Hadou/Gudou Gods AFAIK, why would he compare something that doesn't exist to his position in that moment?
 
He is clearly talking about Hadou Gods given the context.

Tony di bugalu said:
What kind of question is that? Yato only knows about the Hadou/Gudou Gods AFAIK, why would he compare something that doesn't exist to his position in that moment?
Click to expand...
Because Hadou Gods are nigh-omniscient and other kinds of gods exists in the Masadaverse, like Methuselah or Amakasu Masahiko's gods.
 
Amakasu and his gods don't exist in the Shinza verse, they are separated things.

Meth only existed during the time of Merc and was the last god until Rein killed him, Ren only knows everything that happens in his domains/law, not outside of it, that's why they are nigh-omniscient characters.
 
So since he compared himself being a human to hajun being a God does that mean his taiji value should be infinite if not surpasses the 1 set of infinity in terms of the value of taiji?
 
Perhaps so, but as I said it's unquantifiably greater than what the "Taikyoku scale" could measure.

It's a power that keeps on rising with no limit to eliminate something that is "touching" him, simple as that.

Basically he's unquantifiably high in 1-A tier.
 
Maxnumb231 said:
I can see why people use hajun as "should be high 1-A because of his power level"
Click to expand...
I mean, his profile used to have a note saying the only reason he wasn't High 1-A was that he has way too many weaknesses.
 
His former ratings were "High 1-A" and "Atleast 1-A", if I'm not mistaken, however, since tier 0/former high 1-A was never about sheer power, his rating was changed to 1-A because of his weaknesses.

Pantheon is a completely different case though, seeing that the game took a shit or two on what the previous games have set up by retconning the living shit out of them.
 
Ravenous4th said:
Hajun's power simply can't be measured by "Taikyoku value". It's utterly unquantifiable as it has "risen past the limits", effectively breaking the entire Taikyoku scale. Best you can do is scale him off Yato with "transcending a Hadou God as much as they transcend mortals".
Click to expand...
Is this something that is said in KKK?
 
Why though?

The only Gods Yato knew of were Taikyoku Gods, I don't see why adding "Hadou" would massively upgrade him.

The singularity, on the other hand, makes you question if they were actually massively higher than what we initially thought.
 
@Raven Pantheon is dead tho, the retcons doesn't matter anymore.

@Warren

Hajun wouldn't get any upgrade, people already took that as part of his powerlevel, or at least I think it was taken into account.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
@Warren

Hajun wouldn't get any upgrade, people already took that as part of his powerlevel, or at least I think it was taken into account.
Click to expand...
To my knowledge, Hajun is considered to be on an immeasurable level of transcendence above baseline 1-A and infinitely rising.

Having a difference like "a being transcending 1-A like a 1-A transcends a human" is another level of power.

If this is a real comparasion, and Yato was being serious - then that would likely make Tier 0 - as it fits the definition rather well:

"Tier 0: Boundless

High Outerverse level
Characters that far exceed the requirements for Tier 1-A. Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera.

Take note that being infinitely superior to a regular 1-A character does not automatically make another character qualify for a Tier 0 rating. The ones that do qualify should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for Tier 0, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed ones who are bound by dimensions.

It is also important to note that such characters are not omnipotent, as such a concept isn't well suited for our tiering system (See the Omnipotence page for further explanations). High outerversal characters, although immeasurably powerful, can display minor weaknesses and limitations, and be rivaled or even surpassed by other beings within their respective verses."


It's the kind of shit that Umineko and the Mythos has that makes them so high up on the 1-A latter.

And it is most definitely not already taken into account when talking about Hajun AFAIK.
 
Ravenous4th said:
Why though?
The only Gods Yato knew of were Taikyoku Gods, I don't see why adding "Hadou" would massively upgrade him.

The singularity, on the other hand, makes you question if they were actually massively higher than what we initially thought.
Click to expand...
No, I agree that by God they mean Hadou God - it is obvious in the context of Shinza Banshou.


I just feel with that wording, that Yato might be making a metaphor and not a legitimate comparison.


I could be dead wrong though - and if I am, Hajun is warranted for an upgrade, imo.
 
I already knew that, but since Hajun and his power has been a somewhat controversial topic due to him used to being High 1-A and all those things he tends to be forgotten.

But like I said, I thought everyone knew this and just ignored it.
 
Ravenous4th said:
Hajun's power has always been up there, that's why he was formerly High 1-A/0.
He was downgraded because tier 0 was never about sheer power.
Click to expand...
He was never Tier 0 - at most he was High 1-A.

And we have changed our standards on Tier 1-A, High 1-A, and Tier 0 since then - if your quote is legitimate, then I can see Hajun getting upgraded.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
I already knew that, but since Hajun and his power has been a somewhat controversial topic due to him used to being High 1-A and all those things he tends to be forgotten.
But like I said, I thought everyone knew this and just ignored it.
Click to expand...
I can honestly say, I didn't know this was a thing.
 
I can't see an upgrade, people will bring those past thread and say things like the tumor is a weaknesses, he was killed, etc, etc.

At most you could just put him even higher into the 1-A tier But Raven is already doing that so...
 
I have consulted DarkLK and read few comments regarding tier 0, including the one that downgraded Hajun itself.

Hajun was always that high, transcending other Gods to the point they look like mere humans to him.

He was simply downgraded because tier 0 can't be achieved by sheer power, it's a tier that describes absolute transcendence over all other beings in the character's verse, a realization of a concept of "monotheistic God" of a verse, Hajun just doesn't qualify that as his weakness was too major.

Also, as a side note: In contrast to the popular belief that tier 0 is an absolute, unbeatable rating, tier 0 was actually never an auto-win condition to begin with.
 
^ What the 4th said. He was always that strong, reason why we (or at least I) said he can tango with the strongest thing in the Mythos.

Stop editing your comment >:v
 
Mind elaborating? I don't see how that's an incap since he will keep coming back due to that red hair b*tch.
 
Thanks to Hajun's law, if Akuto is lower, he'll get constantly stomped to the point that Hajun won't even notice him, making it basically incap.
 
Ravenous4th said:
I have consulted DarkLK and read few comments regarding tier 0, including the one that downgraded Hajun itself.
Hajun was always that high, transcending other Gods to the point they look like mere humans to him.

He was simply downgraded because tier 0 can't be achieved by sheer power, it's a tier that describes absolute transcendence over all other beings in the character's verse, a realization of a concept of "monotheistic God" of a verse, Hajun just doesn't qualify that as his weakness was too major.
Click to expand...
That sounds a lot more like when our Tier 0 was when we had Tier 0 as Omnipotence though - that has changed.

The concept of having a monothesisic God or someone Omnipotent isn't used as a factor anymore AFAIK:

"Tier 0: Boundless

High Outerverse level
Characters that far exceed the requirements for Tier 1-A. Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera.

Take note that being infinitely superior to a regular 1-A character does not automatically make another character qualify for a Tier 0 rating. The ones that do qualify should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for Tier 0, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed ones who are bound by dimensions.

It is also important to note that such characters are not omnipotent, as such a concept isn't well suited for our tiering system (See the Omnipotence page for further explanations). High outerversal characters, although immeasurably powerful, can display minor weaknesses and limitations, and be rivaled or even surpassed by other beings within their respective verses"


Either way, even if he isn't Tier 0, I feel like Hajun is on a higher level of 1-A than most on the wiki give him credit for, much closer to the Mythos and Umineko than I, and most others, believed.
 
If a put an ant against you in a cage and the ant can't do nothing fo you think "I cant kill it, I guess we are stalemated" or "This thing can't hurt me, I guess I'll just put my foot above it so it can move"?
 
@Warren

If that were the case, characters such as Umineko top tiers and Mythos top tiers would have already been upgraded to tier 0.

Tier 0, despite receiving quite some changes, still functions essentially the same as it did before; albeit with the removal of "omnipotence".

Character with major weakness, particularly Hajun, isn't fit for such rating.
 
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