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Guts vs Ken Kaneki

Except ya leaving out context established after grunbeld. Telling me im wrong when ya the one leaving out context astounding.

Cool explain why that happened only then and not once after? Explain why schierke made a point the armor would open up previousky obtained wounds and hence a danger and explain why the only time he bled when he opened up wounds he obtained previousky? And also explain why he did not bleed after jumping even within the fight where he opened up all wound again? Ya excluding context established afterwards man.

A blast that used him as the epicenter by heating him up? And no man ya not using that. If serpico lacked the ability of denting ken would fail also.
 
Also ya forget guts had bombs which would destroy all kagune with range and allow guts get closer as the man above managed get close to him with minimal effort from the gif.
 
Not arguing it. But you're the one ignoring what Schirke says about the armour and its downsides. Astounding.

Serpico can harm Guts though.

None of Gut's weapons are 8-B except the Dragonslayer sword. Canons and bombs would bounce off Kaneki.
 
He wouldn't.

The only thing he might do is use the canon as he did in his fight with Grunbeld, but that wasn't even an attack on Grunbeld, it was to move him around.
 
Astounding? Ya forget the fact he injured himself by opening up wounds he just obtained.

Ya ignoring the context not me .
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Not the armor.

Canon actually is 8-B.

But ya apparently making me go obtain context for ya. Give me a while man.
 
You're ignoring that Schirke literally says the armour removes one's subconscious limiters (which "prevent the body from destroying itself") and give increased strength and reflexes at the cost of one's own life.

That is immediately followed by a panels of Guts bleeding from literally everywhere (which wouldn't happen if it was just a reopened wound, he'd just be bleeding from specific locations if that was the case), and absolutely no mention of reopening wounds.

It doesn't take a genius to put those things together and realise that the Berserker armour is damaging him to use.
 
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>prevent the body from destroying itself.

Context and meaning.

Context being the wound all over his body he just obtained would be opened from his reckless attack and fighting style and hence he would fatally wound himself if he kept fighting with wounds that deep.

Also the bleeding lasted for days meaning a minute it hour not happening and the bleeding happened from wounds opening and the armor digging him.

None of that a factor when he not damaged.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
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Click to expand...
Thing about his attacks reopening wounds -> mentioned once

Panels depicting the strain on his muscles (not existing wounds) -> multiple times

The armour is stated to be eating into his body -> more evidence its usage damages him

The thing about his wounds reopening -> is talking about his wounds kept reopening during recovery after they got the armour off him, not talking about how using the armour caused his wounds to reopen.
 
Mentioned plenty. But ya think im gonna go through a hundred chapters for all mentioning of that

Boy what the shit ya talking about? The muscle panel had him damaged and pointed out wound he got from godhand slan within the fight man.

Yeah by putting his broken limbs together not just because man.

The latter was just there ta prove ya wrong about guts bleeding OUT.
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The wound bleeding.

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EXPLICITLY mentioned the wound did not heal.

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The quoteya keep mentioning but forgetting the context meant he would just open wound back open as he did not have fear or even any pain preventing him from doing that and hence why the wound bked.

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Followed by next panel the wound that opened again.

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Him bleeding because of the wound.

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The armor doing the damage only because of a limb and hence the damage. Guts without damage would be unharmed .

Add the fact EVERY fight after he healed he did not bleed or take damage from his attacks while armored.
 
My vote goes to guts for TheJ-ManRequiem reasons. Plus Guts fighting Ken Kaneki is almost the same thing for him if he was fighting a apostles its just other day of demon slaying for him.
 
Tincan123 said:
Guts fighting Ken Kaneki is almost the same thing for him if he was fighting a apostles its just other day of demon slaying for him.
Click to expand...
Not very good reasoning this part.

Kaneki fighting guts is just another day of fighting investigators wearing arata to him.
 
Except with pain tolerance much higher ap or durability and Regenerationn preventation and experience and skills excluding maybe a few minor advantages except only a few man.

Man as of now guts would just with minimal effort break out and break through ken and his obstacle and pummel him with minimal exhaustion on his end man.
 
Pain tolerance -> fought Juuzou, who keeps on fighting despite losing a leg and getting his stomach cut open, laughs while being hoisted on hooks stabbed through his back, and stitches patterns into his flesh for fun

Much Higher AP -> not really. Less than 4 times, and using Kakuja decreases that gap further.

Experience and skills -> he's fought people who've been trained from birth before, and swords are pretty much the basic weapon for every investigator or Koukaku user ever.

As of right now, Kaneki dodges around and keeps his distance with his superior agility and range advantage until Guts rips his own body apart from the strain of using Berserker armour.
 
>Litterally 4 times hjgher. >Only a bit.

He almost would ohko.

And? That would have nothing on the experience of guts and the amount if skill he also had. Guts had fought and defeated human zodd. Also plenty of generals of superhuman ability and comparability and a year of fighting all day. And the apostle guts do fight are powerful and much above him.

And man ya do that and keep saying that but ya (no offense man) blind or litteralky had not read berserk as guts not once harmed himself by just moving around. Actually man i will post every fight. Because ya not only excluding context but ya ignoring most of the manga. Ya outright cherry picking but not only ya cherry picking man ya excluding context which explained what happened. And the agility would not be enough.
 
Not actually 4 times higher though. Kaneki pretty much one-shot a full power Eto, who when starving has a casual city block feat. If you want to continue along the logic fo "almost ohko" requires being 4 times stronger, then there you have Kaneki actually ohko-ing Eto, thus by your logic being 4 times stronger than full power Eto. And that was without his Kakuja, which further buffs his strength, speed, durability, and agility.

Except he has harmed himself by moving around. You're trying to say that is just the wounds he already received bleeding, but given the explanation on how the Berserker armour actually works, and the images on the panels in relation to the explanations, that is simply not the case. Gut's page even says so in the berserker armour's description. If you think otherwise, make a content revision thread and get it changed. Until then, he has that weakness.
 
Also, "fought and defeated human Zod"

Uhhh no.

Zodd was kicking his ass, and the only reason he even got a hit on Zodd was because there just happened to be be an extra sword lying on the ground that he kicked up. That's not the case here.
 
And then add guts feat which he just walked off. Without a calculation ya not putting ken above borderline block plus man.

That is litterally what happened and the panel ya so desperately cling on to ya taking and using without the actual context. I posted the context even. The picture on panel in relation? Ya mean the picture of his wound he just got one chapter earlier opening back and pouring blood? Or the supposed musckecstrain which actually showing the wound up close opening while explain the damage? And man go on and point where he damaged from just moving. Go on. Ill wait. And the profile states he damaged himself only from his attack not just moving which ya gotta find evidence for.

Just ignore context. And on panel evidence and litterally all fights post healing. Because just ignoring will most well not do anything for your case. And that was discussed actually already and just not implemenred. Psmonkey maybe? The berserk armor damaging was discussed with him.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Also, "fought and defeated human Zod"

Uhhh no.

Zodd was kicking his ass, and the only reason he even got a hit on Zodd was because there just happened to be be an extra sword lying on the ground that he kicked up. That's not the case here.
Click to expand...
He did. He countered zodd using a sword with his. The match ended with zodd not landing a hit on guts and guts landing a hit on him and guts deflected all blows while zodd went all out. Zodd litterally said his technique and weapon was formidable and proceeded apostle mode. Only after zodd had not a weapon left because his lack of skill from lacking ability on harming guts made his weapon break man.
 
And finally

Even if I thought you were right, and that the Berserker Armour causing strain to its wearing was only because Guts was already wounded and his wounds were bleeding...

The wounds have still not gone away. Guts is stil wounded on the Astral plane, and has not been healed from it, so all those wounds Slan inflicted on him are going to open up again as soon as he starts fighting here, and he's still going to start bleeding out and dying anyway. He doesn't magically get his soul healed for this fight.
 
My bad zodd landed one blow on his cheeck (which guts also did). And zodd had five on guts using one sword and while zodd failed guts outright skewered ZODD.
 
"Without a calculation ya not putting ken above borderline block plus man." Seriously? Now who's ignoring things. I've explained to you the scaling that puts him well above baseline, and you're just saying "muh muh no calc muh".

Kaneki's superior agility and range lets him easily keep the distance to stay away from Gut's attacks. Gut's Regenerationn negation is ineffective on Kagune tentacles as Kaneki can just instantly create new ones. Kaneki's enhanced senses lets him know that Guts is bleeding out all the time from his armour and that Guts is just a human, who can't heal and will eventually die from that blood loss.

Hence, I vote Kaneki via playing keep away until Guts dies from blood loss, which is entirely in his character and very possible for him to do.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
My bad zodd landed one blow on his cheeck (which guts also did).
And zodd had five on guts using one sword and while zodd failed guts outright skewered ZODD.
Click to expand...
Literally luck combined with the environment. Completely irrelevant here.
 
"While there are claims that Dragonslayer negates durability, this is not true, nor does it outright negate Regenerationn. Its power is more along the lines of creating wounds that will never fully recover, and even if healed or regenerated, will open up again. This isn't full Regenerationn negation, but can somewhat function as such when it comes to larger, more debilitating injuries"

The entire premise of the Dragonslayer negating Regenerationn comes from Slan injuring Guts on the spiritual plane so that his wounds just reopen even when Shirke magically heals them. And guts is still wounded. The whole reason he's wearing the Berserker armour all the time now is to keep him alive from those wounds that keep reopening.
 
Ah just ignore the fight where guts fought on equal footing with an opponent far more powerful and landed multiple attack which outlasted him while zodd failed .

And? Fine let me just whip out the berserk scaling putting guts at mcb . Ya have a calculation for a boost that would multiply not once or three but over four man.

He would fight with just a drop of blood and he only bleed for days or did ya forget?.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Ah just ignore the fight where guts fought on equal footing with an opponent far more powerful and landed multiple attack which outlasted him while zodd failed .
Click to expand...
How is this relevant to any of my arguments?

And? Fine let me just whip out the berserk scaling putting guts at mcb . Ya have a calculation for a boost that would multiply not once or three but over four man.

By your own logic, being able to oneshot something requires you to be 4 times stronger than them. Kaneki tore apart peak Eto's Kakuja in a single strike. So either Kaneki is four times stronger than peak Eto, who while starved and weakened has a casual city block feat, or Gut's 4X AP advantage is not enough to one-shot. Which one J-Man? You can't have both.

He would fight with just a drop of blood and he only bleed for days or did ya forget?.

He'd die eventually. Kaneki could easily avoid him for that long with his superior agility, and if he gets tired he takes a bite out of some bystander then he's good to go again.
 
Guts had the wound heal spiritually though. At least partially.


And ya excluding the fact all fights after did not have damage on himself for the sake of ya debate.
 
It was established that the armour damages the user by removing their subconscious limiters, giving them increased strength at the cost of destroying their body. And "destroying their body" was said in a general, separate statement on humans in general when explaining how the Berserker Armour works, not directly talking about Guts, so arguing that it was explicitly refering to his wounds from Slan is incorrect.

Was it shown that he wasn't damaging himself, as in statements of doing no damage at all, or was it simply not mentioned that he was damaging himself? Because Miura probably just doesn't like repeating himself when he's already established the Berserker Armour strains the user.
 
The fact ya stated he got his ass kicked which is a blatant lie?

Twisting words monarch? How low can ya go? An calculation of 4 time above what ken scaled off existed and that would be the minimum for an exhausted and weakened guts excluding he walked the feat off with minimal drawback. Extrapolating ken defeating a baseline and amping him over 4 time when a guts way below the one he fighting had a much better feat with an calculation.

Ken moving or lack of would be fatal and days monarch not an hour or two hence ya have the longest fight he engaged?.
 
No damage. All fight within the manga after he got healed lacked any blood or post battle wound. All damage from an enemy not himself (example burned from lightning but no blood or wound from attacking).

And ya not quite on the head there as the panel mentioned and talked about skull knight which fell as he fought man.
 
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