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Guts (Berserk) Vs Saber (Fate)

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Sage God Slayer said:
Arturia has stats over him plus Excalibur can one shot Guts
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Exactly what I was trying to say. Also, the soul damage from Guts will hurt her, but I doubt it would oneshot Arturia. Unlike Excaliblast, it can and will oneshot Guts, even in Berserker Armor.
 
I'd go with guts for the reasons above, also even if he gets wounded, the berserker armor will make him ignore the pain.
 
Alright... Let's tally up the votes so far.

Guts - 3

Saber - 5

Looks like Arturia is in the lead, however it seems that Guts ain't backing down.
 
A Hero Long Forgotten said:
Woah. Maybe I'm not doing it right? I don't recall FIVE votes for Saber...
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Reynald and Sage God Slayer said they think Saber would win. If I remember the rules correctly, the winner must have at least 7 votes, with the loser having 3 votes behind, at the least.
 
I think i'll go with Guts.

It's not quite a speed stomp since saber can kill guts in one attack and precog will help her with speed gap (Guts is about 7X faster) though as soon as Guts sees hes fighting a tank he will aim to end it the way Austrian mentioned.I picture this fight going like the one from Berserk against the inquisitor.

Guts will see how strong his oppoent is then focas on dodgeing and Blocking maybe loseing a limb or two along the way but when he finally sees his chance he'll take it and win.

Guts insane Difficulty
 
It could honestly go either way, but I'm going with Saber for reasons above. Can't really add anything else.

Though, it would be a very tough battle.

She wins with insane difficulty.
 
Saber has precog + Excaliblast, which is stronger than anything Guts has ever tanked, which would one shot him.

This can go either way. Either Guts cuts through Saber, or Saber realizes Guts is faster and can cleave through her, and go for an insta Excaliblast.
 
No one has explained how GUTS can oneshot Saber. The only thing I know is that Guts's Dragonslayer can actually negate Avalon's passive mode (Not in activation, that should be obvious). Oh, and that it can damage the soul and it's wounds are permanent, and that the Berserker Armor makes Guts give a middle finger to pain (And sticks his broken bones together, hardcore). But will it kill Saber in one hit? Sure, it will hurt her REALLY badly, but given her dura, she'll prolly go "owie wowie" and decide to smack one Excaliblast and atomize the poor man (Along with that annoying fortress)

Sure he's faster, but then that would go against the rules (Apparently) as it would be a speed stomp. But until someone can prove that Guts can also oneshot Saber, I'm still going with Saber due to Precog, Excaliblast, massive stat advantage excluding speed and Avalon. Not as a passive regen, but when activated.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
No one has explained how GUTS can oneshot Saber.
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It's due to Dragonslayer being able to damage one's soul as mentioned various times, and therefore having the abilitiy to cleave straight through Saber. You need evidence that she will only go "owie" after a direct attack to the soul and not an immediate death.

"All of the points made for Guts above also play into this. It doesn't matter how powerful the enemies attacks are, if you can pretty much negate your opponents defense, and hit them before they can, you win."

"Dragonslayer require contact with the target's flesh, so it's reliant on Durability to an extent."

"I read it. Unless metal has a soul, he's still going to need to go through that armor first - armor which has too high durability for him to get through"

All these arguments made from various people are about Dragonslayer being able to go through Saber (if it strikes her head) due to it's specialised ability of attacking the soul. Now we got this argument out of the way. I would perfer you to stop talking about whether or not Guts can one shot but talk about whether or not Saber's pre cognition would save her from the big gap in speed. If not this thread needs to be closed down due to a speed stomp.
 
All right, fine then. Saber loses, that's how it goes after all.

If this was equalized, she'd stomp. If not, Guts would speed stomp. No matter what happens, either party stomps, is that how it is? Because Saber is SO much more powerful and durable while Guts is SO much faster. Either party can also oneshot. If that's the case, then we should lock this up.

Last question tho, more out of curiousity. Did Guts actually oneshot someone before with way higher dura than him? In his manga, I mean.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Last question tho, more out of curiousity. Did Guts actually oneshot someone before with way higher dura than him? In his manga, I mean.
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Well Guts has always been able to cut through people in the manga, I don't recall one instance where he failed to cleave through somebody. I think harming Slan would count, as his arm canon and other equipment done jack but arouse her. But as soon as he stabbed her with the Dragonslayer she had to retreat asap probably to heal the wounds done to her soul/astral body via some magic or something.
 
Austrian-Man-Meat said:
Well Guts has always been able to cut through people in the manga, I don't recall one instance where he failed to cleave through somebody. I think harming Slan would count, as his arm canon and other equipment done jack but arouse her. But as soon as he stabbed her with the Dragonslayer she had to retreat asap probably to heal the wounds done to her soul/astral body via some magic or something.
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Alright, thanks. I should really start reading its manga. A lot of my friends say its very cool.

Anyways, this thread... close or not?
 
Let me tally up the vote, if there are any mistakes feel free to correct me.

Votes for Guts (6): Australian Man Meat, Talonmask, Zianmoon2, LTB2000, RadicalMrR, Super Goku Roku

Votes for Saber (6): ScarletFirefly, ShinyMagicalGirl, A Sword Dancer, Reynald2708, Sage God Slayer, Xmark12

Having said this, I really think this thread should be closed, this is gonna be a stomp for either combatant. Either Saber closes the speed gap with her Precog and stomps Guts due to his low Durability, or she doesn't and gets blitzed. Either outcome is a stomp and against the rules, hence the reason I'm calling for this thread to be locked.
 
ScarletFirefly said:
Let me tally up the vote, if there are any mistakes feel free to correct me.
Votes for Guts (6): Australian Man Meat, Talonmask, Zianmoon2, LTB2000, RadicalMrR, Super Goku Roku

Votes for Saber (6): ScarletFirefly, ShinyMagicalGirl, A Sword Dancer, Reynald2708, Sage God Slayer, Xmark12

Having said this, I really think this thread should be closed, this is gonna be a stomp for either combatant. Either Saber closes the speed gap with her Precog and stomps Guts due to his low Durability, or she doesn't and gets blitzed. Either outcome is a stomp and against the rules, hence the reason I'm calling for this thread to be locked.
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Wow, I didn't think the votes were exactly even. And is there any way this fight could be fair barring an upgrade/downgrade?
 
I don't think this is a speed stomp because a speed stomp is when one combatente is so fast the other can't even fight back and has no chance at all but with precog and the power to swing wildly and just kill Guts as colateral she can definitly fight back not to mention both can one shoot one another with great difficuilty but it is better to ask an admin to look in to this.
 
I have a few issues.

There is the fact that the Dragon Slayer may broke if clash with Excalibur.

After all, Non Man Made Weapons>>>>>Man Made Weapons.

Also, Dragon Slayer negating Avalon...yeah, i don't think so. (unless it refers to avalon's healing properties

I will go with Saber due to her Precog + Excalibur + One physical strike and Guts is done.
 
It's pre cog that apparently has a weakness under this guideline "Her sixth sense could be fooled by methods that Saber never experienced before" so assuming Saber's sixth sense is potent enough to predict someone's movements who exceeds her significantly in speed is slightly odd.
 
By "methods" it means something like a martial art that she never know like Kuzuki's Snake style or Lancer's ploy with his dual Noble Phantasm.

But still she is able to dodge many of Kuzuki's strikes through pure instinct.
 
I don't remember quite well that scene, but still, i don't think that being faster fall under those "methods".

PS: Of course, aside from NLFs.
 
The question still remains on whether or not Saber can use pre cog on someone who is faster than she is, to be honest it's rather ambiguous on how it functions.
 
Her instinct was able to warn her in time to react to Assassins sword technique that attacks from three directions at the same time, without her having ever seen or heard of such a technique previously. She in fact was warned and started reacting before the first move of the technique even started - aside from assassin taking a stance and claiming that he was going to 'force saber to take him seriously'.
 
Looking at their speeds, Guts would have faster reaction than her but his combative speed is the same level as her reaction speed.

And in the Berserker armor, his combat speed decreases a small bit does it not? (his reaction speed increases though if I recall)
 
KamiYasha said:
I don't remember quite well that scene, but still, i don't think that being faster fall under those "methods".
PS: Of course, aside from NLFs.
Click to expand...
Those 'methods' you are talking about have so far only been demonstrated by fighters who either A) use a fighting style shes never seen before whose entire method is deception and suprise (kuzuki using an assassination martial art after catching saber totally by surprise and while under enhancement by Caster) or B) are feints planned well in advance by someone who has combat instict that rivals sabers own (the (true) eye of the mind that fate zero lancer used in combination with a trap he had set up).

It's important to note that even in these cases, those 'methods' only worked for a very short time after they were revealed and then Saber adapted and her precognition was no longer fooled.
 
VircaTheDestroyer said:
Looking at their speeds, Guts would have faster reaction than her but his combative speed is the same level as her reaction speed.
And in the Berserker armor, his combat speed decreases a small bit does it not? (his reaction speed increases though if I recall)
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His profile (Guts) explitly mentions him to have MHS combat/reaction speeds, and that they increase with the use of the Berserker armor. Not sure where you got that information from.
 
Why don't we make this inconclusive? Both have means to kill eachother and it can go either way.
 
Off topic: Why has combat/reactions?

I mean, the calc itself doesn't look like combat speed.
 
KamiYasha said:
Off topic: Why has combat/reactions?
I mean, the calc itself doesn't look like combat speed.
Click to expand...
It's because Guts was able to move Dragonslayer whilst perfroming the feat, me and Alaka came to this conclusion.
 
Well, Guts massively hypersonic speed is only his combat reaction and speed, not his movement speed so- Saber can just spam Excalibur and she can just move into a safe distance and Excalibur's Guts to the death. Even though Guts try to attack Saber, it won't hurt her much due to her durability and I don't think Saber will allow him to strike her head though so yeah. My bet is in Saber via her Avalon as well, I don't think Dragon slayer can hurt her when she activates Avalon.
 
Reynald2708 said:
Well, Guts massively hypersonic speed is only his combat reaction and speed, not his movement speed so- Saber can just spam Excalibur and she can just move into a safe distance and Excalibur's Guts to the death. Even though Guts try to attack Saber, it won't hurt her much due to her durability and I don't think Saber will allow him to strike her head though so yeah. My bet is in Saber via her Avalon as well, I don't think Dragon slayer can hurt her when she activates Avalon.
Click to expand...
Saber can't spam Excaliblast, only Alter can.

But yes, activated Avalon is pretty much impenetrable.
 
Saber can't spam Excaliblast, only Alter can.

Saber can activate it at least 3-4 times before going out of prana, though I agree compared to Alter that's nothing since Alter has nigh infinite supply of prana.

For anyone counting, the votes as of now are:

Votes for Guts (6): Australian Man Meat, Talonmask, Zianmoon2, LTB2000, RadicalMrR, Super Goku Roku

Votes for Saber (8): ScarletFirefly, ShinyMagicalGirl, A Sword Dancer, Reynald2708, Sage God Slayer, Xmark12, KamiYasha, VircaTheDestroyer

EDIT: Grammatical errors.
 
"I vote for Saber."

"I think Saber got this. Guts would go down as if he were Berserker (FATE) lol"

"Arturia has stats over him plus Excalibur can one shot Guts"

The following votes have a blatent lack of explanation/reasoning (and not looking at prior arguments made by other users) and therefore should not be counted, I also remember a bunch of users who seemed to of looked over Dragonslayers soul harming capabilities but I am unsure where those are.

The point of the matter is this, how exactly does Saber's pre cognition work? And would it be able to predict someone much faster than she is?
 
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