- 1,048
- 817
I was going to wait until a certain other thread i made was going to be resolved, but that’s not going anywhere….. so time to upgrade the indomitable human spirit.
I will seperate this CRT into a few sections.
One justifying the 1A rating of the verse, and another to attempt to go even further and make it High 1-A+
most of the 1-A justifications actually come from ANOTHER blog offsite, and they’ve actually given explicit permission to use this in a VSBW CRT, as long as they’re credited.
massive thanks to KirbonicPikmin: https://kirbonicpikminvs.blogspot.com/2024/08/tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-cosmology.html?m=1
first, Dimensions in the verse may actually have an R>F relationship to one another.
Source used: .
Simon uses his spiral power to write a story, and this story becomes its own 2 dimensional universe.
In essence, while crafting his story and the world within it, Otoko Simon utilized his Spiral Energy to connect his own universe with a 2D universe. Alongside the power of his voice, this connection enabled that universe's own Simon, "Garlock," to perform "spatial teleportation," allowing him to cross into Otoko Simon's dimension. When Otoko Simon tore the manuscript, it created a "gateway" linking the two dimensions. Additionally, any modifications made to the manuscript directly influenced the reality and storyline of the 2D universe, notably steering Garlock towards meeting Kamina to help him grow as a person.
In simpler terms, the primary distinction between a 2D universe and a 3D universe is essentially between fiction and reality. By writing with a pen charged with his Spiral Energy, Otoko Simon crafted a fictional 2D universe that he could manipulate at will through his script within his 3D reality. This implies that traversing from a lower-dimensional universe to a higher one in TTGL involves moving from a fictional realm to a real one. Each dimension above perceives those below as fictional, with each successive dimension layering further into a greater reality.
If Simon can move from his 3D universe to the Anti-Spiral universe, which lies between the 10th and 11th dimensions, shouldn’t that rule him out?
In the main series and movies, Simon needs to transport the Arc Gurren from the 3D universe to the Anti-Spiral universe to save Nia. This Anti-Spiral universe exists between the 10th and 11th dimensions. While this might seem like it disqualifies him, it’s important to understand the nature of Spiral Energy. Spiral Energy is a powerful force that holds life and the universe together, even in the Anti-Spiral universe, where it’s just prevented from manifesting. Despite this blockade, Simon and his team can still use Spiral Energy there.
For this transportation feat, Simon explains to his team that using their "spirit" or "fighting spirit" (another term for Spiral Power), they can "fly anywhere," implying that dimensional travel requires Spiral Energy. This is crucial because Spiral Energy was how Otoko Simon created the 2D universe for Garlock, showing that it can create, connect, and bind different realities. Given that Spiral Energy holds the universe and life forms together, it’s at least an "Outerversal" or 1A energy source. Using this power for dimensional travel is not a disqualifier; in fact, using a 1A energy source to achieve 1A feats or transcend dimensions fits the R>F Standards.
What about Garlock transcending his lower fictional reality into a higher one? Isn’t that a disqualifier?
Without additional context, yes, it would be. According to VSBW’s standards, a lower entity can't break into higher realms with their own lesser powers, so Garlock doing it alone could be a disqualifier. However, Garlock didn’t do this on his own—he was boosted by Otoko Simon’s power, transmitted through his voice. Importantly, Otoko Simon exists in a higher reality and literally created Garlock’s universe through his Spiral Power and pen. The characters in the 2D universe couldn’t transcend dimensions on their own; they only did it once Otoko Simon’s Spiral Energy either empowered them or created a gateway.
Does Otoko Simon empowering others with his voice count as "dispersing" himself?
No, Simon isn’t breaking himself down into a lower reality by doing this. He isn’t becoming less real. Instead, the sound of his voice and his powers from the higher realm reach the lower realm, empowering entities there with his Spiral Energy. This fits within the 1A Energy Source allowances and isn’t a disqualifier.
Now, in case this is somehow invalid, I have my own meta for 1-A that is NOT covered in the blog.
There are many abstract/beyond space time statements in the series regarding spiral power in general, Team Dai-Gurren, and the anti spiral towards the end of the series.
i will compile them here.
TTGL is stated to be “materialized thought”, so the concept of space does not apply to it.
"The second half of "Gurren Lagann" overwhelms viewers with an intense driving feeling but the scale of the Gurren Lagann series has been on a many viewer's minds. If the size of "Lagann" is approximately 1 meter and and "Gurren Lagann" is about 5 meters then it follows that the figures below are rough estimates. However, because Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a materialized thought, it's size is impossible to calculate (It doesn't exactly exist in the physical world.). Use this as only a guide so you can grasp the magnitude of these sizes. When comparing the first Gurren Lagann and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is about 10²⁵ times larger or 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times larger (In the "Gurren Lagann" style it's multiplied by 10.). It could be said that this size is truly unimaginable."
Spiral power is also stated to be “beyond dimensions and time”
The Anti-Spiral is also stated to transcend time and space:
The anti-spiral is a thought body,much like TTGL, and lacks a physical form.
"(Anti-Spiral) [Character/Episode 24] The thought body of the Anti-Spiral race. In order to prevent the "Spiral Nemesis", a cosmic collapse brought about by the Spiral Power, they plan to eradicate the Spiral race. To this end, they have set up an automatic annihilating system on the planet where the Spiral race lives, killing any Spiral race member who has reached a certain population level. Their power is like the universe itself. They have no physical form and cannot be seen by humans. It uses sophisticated tactics to trap the Spirals in the multiverse and deprive their fighting spirit. In the distant past, when the Earth mimics led by Lordgenome fought a battle, Lordgenome pursued the Anti-Spiral, but was unable to find its home base and was exhausted. As a result, Lordgenome was forced to flee back to its home planet of Earth. The Anti-Spiral themselves were once Spirals, but when they became aware of the horrors of Spiral Nemesis, they sealed off their home planet and locked their powers away forever. Until they decided on a name, they were commonly known as "Spaceman" (the original name was invented by Mr. Nakashima). It means the universe itself. Imaishi was in charge of the design."
“Feeling” (which is just referring to spiral power,as referred to in a previous scan.)is said to transcend time and space.
Now, to justify High 1-A+.
The Anti-Spiral creates an infinite multiverse, with infinite possibilities.
These are implied to exist within logical space,as they are referred to as a “logical trap.”
These possibilities are also generated by thought, so anything that could be thought of, would exist in this multiverse. Lordgenome used the super spiral space created by TTGL becoming the embodiment of this multiverse to restore his form.
https://imgur.com/a/ZTBVydR
""Yeah!" The members of the Gurren Lagann behind me nodded vigorously when I said that. Thank you, brother. I believe in you who believes in me. I believe in my friends who believes in myself. Simon held up his core drill to the heaven and a flash of light flashed across the sky. Innumerable appearances of Simon appeared in the sky, and they were the past, the present, and the future, every place, every time, and the innumerable selves that live in a world of infinite possibilities. There is no escaping wherever you go. In a closed infinite universe, various lives are repeated. In that universe of possibilities, Simon twisted the innumerable selves he had drilled into one, twisting them together into a giant drill, and before he realized that it was a huge drill, Simon wasn't there but Gurren Lagann. There stood Gurren Lagann, holding up the giga drill, "Let's go, buddy!""
Some of these worlds actually have different laws, like one of them being sound based.
(TRANSLATION NOT MINE)
All Trigger properties share a cosmology , each with wildly different laws and rules.
TLDR:
Infinite possibilities in the TTGL verse exist, generated by thought into reality. Each of them can have varying fundamental laws and rules Thus, anything that can be thought about,exists in the verse.
Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus (1-A)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Qawsedf234 @CloverDragon03 @Theglassman12
I will seperate this CRT into a few sections.
One justifying the 1A rating of the verse, and another to attempt to go even further and make it High 1-A+
most of the 1-A justifications actually come from ANOTHER blog offsite, and they’ve actually given explicit permission to use this in a VSBW CRT, as long as they’re credited.
massive thanks to KirbonicPikmin: https://kirbonicpikminvs.blogspot.com/2024/08/tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-cosmology.html?m=1
first, Dimensions in the verse may actually have an R>F relationship to one another.
Source used: .
Simon uses his spiral power to write a story, and this story becomes its own 2 dimensional universe.
In essence, while crafting his story and the world within it, Otoko Simon utilized his Spiral Energy to connect his own universe with a 2D universe. Alongside the power of his voice, this connection enabled that universe's own Simon, "Garlock," to perform "spatial teleportation," allowing him to cross into Otoko Simon's dimension. When Otoko Simon tore the manuscript, it created a "gateway" linking the two dimensions. Additionally, any modifications made to the manuscript directly influenced the reality and storyline of the 2D universe, notably steering Garlock towards meeting Kamina to help him grow as a person.
In simpler terms, the primary distinction between a 2D universe and a 3D universe is essentially between fiction and reality. By writing with a pen charged with his Spiral Energy, Otoko Simon crafted a fictional 2D universe that he could manipulate at will through his script within his 3D reality. This implies that traversing from a lower-dimensional universe to a higher one in TTGL involves moving from a fictional realm to a real one. Each dimension above perceives those below as fictional, with each successive dimension layering further into a greater reality.
If Simon can move from his 3D universe to the Anti-Spiral universe, which lies between the 10th and 11th dimensions, shouldn’t that rule him out?
In the main series and movies, Simon needs to transport the Arc Gurren from the 3D universe to the Anti-Spiral universe to save Nia. This Anti-Spiral universe exists between the 10th and 11th dimensions. While this might seem like it disqualifies him, it’s important to understand the nature of Spiral Energy. Spiral Energy is a powerful force that holds life and the universe together, even in the Anti-Spiral universe, where it’s just prevented from manifesting. Despite this blockade, Simon and his team can still use Spiral Energy there.
For this transportation feat, Simon explains to his team that using their "spirit" or "fighting spirit" (another term for Spiral Power), they can "fly anywhere," implying that dimensional travel requires Spiral Energy. This is crucial because Spiral Energy was how Otoko Simon created the 2D universe for Garlock, showing that it can create, connect, and bind different realities. Given that Spiral Energy holds the universe and life forms together, it’s at least an "Outerversal" or 1A energy source. Using this power for dimensional travel is not a disqualifier; in fact, using a 1A energy source to achieve 1A feats or transcend dimensions fits the R>F Standards.
What about Garlock transcending his lower fictional reality into a higher one? Isn’t that a disqualifier?
Without additional context, yes, it would be. According to VSBW’s standards, a lower entity can't break into higher realms with their own lesser powers, so Garlock doing it alone could be a disqualifier. However, Garlock didn’t do this on his own—he was boosted by Otoko Simon’s power, transmitted through his voice. Importantly, Otoko Simon exists in a higher reality and literally created Garlock’s universe through his Spiral Power and pen. The characters in the 2D universe couldn’t transcend dimensions on their own; they only did it once Otoko Simon’s Spiral Energy either empowered them or created a gateway.
Does Otoko Simon empowering others with his voice count as "dispersing" himself?
No, Simon isn’t breaking himself down into a lower reality by doing this. He isn’t becoming less real. Instead, the sound of his voice and his powers from the higher realm reach the lower realm, empowering entities there with his Spiral Energy. This fits within the 1A Energy Source allowances and isn’t a disqualifier.
Now, in case this is somehow invalid, I have my own meta for 1-A that is NOT covered in the blog.
There are many abstract/beyond space time statements in the series regarding spiral power in general, Team Dai-Gurren, and the anti spiral towards the end of the series.
i will compile them here.
TTGL is stated to be “materialized thought”, so the concept of space does not apply to it.
"The second half of "Gurren Lagann" overwhelms viewers with an intense driving feeling but the scale of the Gurren Lagann series has been on a many viewer's minds. If the size of "Lagann" is approximately 1 meter and and "Gurren Lagann" is about 5 meters then it follows that the figures below are rough estimates. However, because Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a materialized thought, it's size is impossible to calculate (It doesn't exactly exist in the physical world.). Use this as only a guide so you can grasp the magnitude of these sizes. When comparing the first Gurren Lagann and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is about 10²⁵ times larger or 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times larger (In the "Gurren Lagann" style it's multiplied by 10.). It could be said that this size is truly unimaginable."
Spiral power is also stated to be “beyond dimensions and time”
The Anti-Spiral is also stated to transcend time and space:
The anti-spiral is a thought body,much like TTGL, and lacks a physical form.
"(Anti-Spiral) [Character/Episode 24] The thought body of the Anti-Spiral race. In order to prevent the "Spiral Nemesis", a cosmic collapse brought about by the Spiral Power, they plan to eradicate the Spiral race. To this end, they have set up an automatic annihilating system on the planet where the Spiral race lives, killing any Spiral race member who has reached a certain population level. Their power is like the universe itself. They have no physical form and cannot be seen by humans. It uses sophisticated tactics to trap the Spirals in the multiverse and deprive their fighting spirit. In the distant past, when the Earth mimics led by Lordgenome fought a battle, Lordgenome pursued the Anti-Spiral, but was unable to find its home base and was exhausted. As a result, Lordgenome was forced to flee back to its home planet of Earth. The Anti-Spiral themselves were once Spirals, but when they became aware of the horrors of Spiral Nemesis, they sealed off their home planet and locked their powers away forever. Until they decided on a name, they were commonly known as "Spaceman" (the original name was invented by Mr. Nakashima). It means the universe itself. Imaishi was in charge of the design."
“Feeling” (which is just referring to spiral power,as referred to in a previous scan.)is said to transcend time and space.
Now, to justify High 1-A+.
The Anti-Spiral creates an infinite multiverse, with infinite possibilities.
These are implied to exist within logical space,as they are referred to as a “logical trap.”
These possibilities are also generated by thought, so anything that could be thought of, would exist in this multiverse. Lordgenome used the super spiral space created by TTGL becoming the embodiment of this multiverse to restore his form.
https://imgur.com/a/ZTBVydR
""Yeah!" The members of the Gurren Lagann behind me nodded vigorously when I said that. Thank you, brother. I believe in you who believes in me. I believe in my friends who believes in myself. Simon held up his core drill to the heaven and a flash of light flashed across the sky. Innumerable appearances of Simon appeared in the sky, and they were the past, the present, and the future, every place, every time, and the innumerable selves that live in a world of infinite possibilities. There is no escaping wherever you go. In a closed infinite universe, various lives are repeated. In that universe of possibilities, Simon twisted the innumerable selves he had drilled into one, twisting them together into a giant drill, and before he realized that it was a huge drill, Simon wasn't there but Gurren Lagann. There stood Gurren Lagann, holding up the giga drill, "Let's go, buddy!""
Some of these worlds actually have different laws, like one of them being sound based.
(TRANSLATION NOT MINE)
All Trigger properties share a cosmology , each with wildly different laws and rules.
TLDR:
Infinite possibilities in the TTGL verse exist, generated by thought into reality. Each of them can have varying fundamental laws and rules Thus, anything that can be thought about,exists in the verse.
Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus (1-A)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Qawsedf234 @CloverDragon03 @Theglassman12
Last edited:
