Guardian vs Sephiroth

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

NOVA BOMB

Hurl an explosive bolt of Void Light at the enemy, disintegrating those caught within its blast.

This isn't existence erasure and matches the quote from the lore of being able to ressurect from disintegration.

 

[Archaron]

It is not "stated," it is a logical conclusion considering everything and all of the guardian's enemies, not necessarily needing a clear citation to come to such a conclusion. As for lore, where did that come from? Logically guardians can return from EE as with panoptes tried to erase the existence of the guardian of the infinite forest, since erase = EE and everything that happens there is real, but only managed to expel it and erase their memories.

Of course it can come back from anywhere, but certain places block its light, so its back can not happen, that's a fact whether it's game mechanics or not.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That is the description of Nova Bomb in the game which is disintegration,same as lore of Ghost being able ressurect from disintegration and quite a few more examples.

And yes I know,but it can't revive fron literally anywhere as the Traveler has a range itself via lore,I don't see anything indiciating EE from that right there.

 

[Archaron]

===NOVA BOMB===
Hurl an explosive bolt of Void Light at the enemy, disintegrating those caught within its blast.

This isn't existence erasure and matches the quote from the lore of being able to ressurect from disintegration.

Okay... Come on.

We have a direct quote that anyone who has ever looked at the void is not bound by the laws of space and time. Now come on, we know that the void light can also manipulate gravity, we have certain statements with the hunter class Nightstalker and the Lore of the Orpheus Rig that their gravitational force is so much that it creates black holes with their fingers casually, but here doubt, where the new bomb disintegrates (which btw does not always mean matter manipulation) does one mean a limitation to void or to its Regenerationn?

In the same lore as the voidwalker grimoire, it is said "

The Traveler came out of the void that surrounds all things.
	~ Voidwalker - Lore​

We know that void goes beyond space and time, and that it is present even inside and outside it, and even in others dimensional planes we see in the lore of the apotheosis veil.

There are those who see the Void as dark. It is the folly of the simple mind, unable to perceive the brilliant richness of nothingness. The Void is not only the absence of Light, but Dark. To harness the Void is to enter a state of tranquility, free from the clatter of ordinary matter.
	~ Apotheosis Veil - Lore​

The void itself is an energy that when used technically offensive is an EE, even if it can be used to disintegrate and gravity manipulate, it does not imply anything at all, since others who use it even though they are not guardians use it form.

Again, the traveler in himself is not the light, but "the sky" (so called the light in the fundament)

 

[Archaron]

The void is an EE even if you show the form of the guardians to use, it's like I said "disintegrate does not always mean destroy the atoms", and in the class where you point out that the nova bomb is only "matter manipulation" in the grimoire says exactly that those who look into the void are devoid of the laws of space and time.

As for the statement and attempt to limit the Regenerationn of the guardian, take any attack that destroys your entire physical and he can regenerate or return, unless you can prove otherwise since in the game this is implied.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I assuming your referring to the this line right here

Light is scarce in this place. But Quantis knows how to find it—how to feel for the un-ripples of the Void, to draw Light from the infinities between spaces. She knows how to roll black holes between her fingertips, and how to nock her bow with the inescapable gravities of the universe.

- Orpheus Rigs

This is quite clearly hyperbole,rolling black holes between her fingertips? nocking her bow with the gravity of the universe? Destiny is full of hyperbole,and none of this indicates resurrection from existence erasure,just explanations of what the Void is in actuality,I have quote directly related to their Regenerationn capabilities aided by the Ghost.

Guardians can be rebuilt after even total disintegrative trauma. This capability is provided by a small autonomous drone unit called a Dead Person [trans. unclear]. The Dead Person conceals itself during combat. It is not a viable target for direct fire. Saturation attack by artillery/heavy air/orbital fire may have good effect (although Guardians transmat frequently and refuse to assemble into large formations).

Ghost Fragment

He is still lunging. Fly to the Almighty and you will find him there, caught in the amber of slow time, reaching forever. I have observed his motions carefully. He will arrive at the mechanism and deactivate the trap in only a little more than fifty thousand years.

I cannot resurrect him. I have tried so hard. The City's Warlocks and thanatonauts answered all my desperate questions, even when I began to ask if he could be destroyed. At least if he were gone, unmade, then I could make him agai…

Why can't I bring him back? If a Guardian falls into Titan's methane sea, they do not die instantly, but we can still bring them back on the arcology. If a Guardian hurls themself off their ship into space, do we need to wait for them to disintegrate in the solar wind before we bring them back? No. No. It was never hard before! I see him right there, and he seems so close! All I was ever meant to be was his Ghost!

- No Rez for the weary

 

[Archaron]

Hyperbole? what? there is no reason to consider this, much less to be one, it is a hax attributed to void manipulation, even weapons possess this, I do not see a motive consists of involving hax for this to be a "hyperbole". I think you still have not realized, that if void is an EE when used offensively, then every titan, hunter, and warlock has that.

These confirmations only attribute to his "low godly" he can return my after his body is totally destroyed/disintegrated and so on. The ghost in question is lamenting for not being able to bring his guardian back, but I hope you understand, the guardian (PC) can come back only with his light, when his light is strong even the blocks that would make him die are useless, and also guardians can be killed even without blocking their light or destroying their ghost. A good example of this is the thorn that has already killed one.

Perhaps. Perhaps. But certain members of a cult I shall not directly name have their own specific interpretation of this process. "When you bring him back," they told me, "you must have a template… an image to provide you with the information you need. Where do you find that template? "Simply in a neighboring timeline. A place where he is still alive and intact. And wherever there is great danger, wherever the probability of death is too high, then those timelines become scarce and hard to reach. And so you find the zones where Guardians cannot easily be remade.
	~ No Rez of the Weary​

The resurrection of the ghost involves that, and again, the Regenerationn of the guardian is due to his light, since he regenerates passively even without the ghost, all that you are implying is only about his resurrection being the ghost fragment the only statement that is still made explicit the "low godly" of the guardian.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It's hyperbole because it's completely baseless,hunters moving blackholes through their fingertips and pulling her/his bowstring with the gravities of the universe? my hyperbole statement has nothing to do with void ,merely the grimore of those exotic boots you linked.

High: The ability to regenerate from scattered or lone molecules, atoms, or particles.

This is Regenerationn from disintegration,it doesn't get more clear then that.

 

[Rocker1189]

Honestly the entire destiny pages are hyperboles brought to life(sisters calling down a star into a sword?). It needs a huge revision

 

[PaChi2]

Disintegration = High regen.

 

[Archaron]

@Sigurd

Your sigurd justification implies absolutely nothing to be considered a hyperbole, you have just shown that you do not agree with what is there and against, and gave no reason to be a hyperbole as much as you simply live by saying that it is a hyperbole without cohesive justification, just repeating the same thing as being hyperbole.

I have already proven that every user void has EE, the guardian as long as there is light can regenerate his whole body, but I think you ignored it.

 

[CNBA3]

the guardians can be resurrected from total disintigration yes, and from what many pieces of lore, such as boomers which can burn down their targets on a subatomic-elementary particle level.

and from what I can tell from that ghost story is that there it just shows that there are specific areas that the ghost cannot revive ghosts like the Darkness zones.

also I think we should consider the Ghost's processing power capable of analyzing information from a supercomputer that broke the Bekenstein Limit during the World's Grave mission.

 

[Archaron]

Yes, they can be killed permanently but this is very difficult to happen.

But let's return the fight, PaChi thinks that after I've answered you questions, Sephiroth still has chances?

 

[PaChi2]

I still think the 4-B guy having resistances scaled to fighting 2-As and not scaling to their AP feels wrong. You either scale or you dont.

It looks like an attempt to make a smurf.

 

[Archaron]

I would rather say that it has resistance to some haxs 2-A, but fortunately does not scale to the AP, so much that no one agrees with it, and I realized that the 2-A done of the others is an isolated feat.

 

[CNBA3]

quick question though, When the Echoe of Oryx returned to Oryx from Mars to the Dreadnaught by saturn's rings, would that mean anything in terms of speed?

 

[PaChi2]

I would rather say that it has resistance to some haxs 2-A, but fortunately does not scale to the AP, so much that no one agrees with it, and I realized that the 2-A done of the others is an isolated feat.

If it doesnt scale in ap it shouldnt scale in resistances.

 

[Archaron]

@CNBA3

No, sorry.

@PaChi

Well, then it will not, anyway that AP will get out of there (minus the 4-B), and I think I might consider the resistance as Low 2-C logically.

 

[PaChi2]

Okay. Let me play this safe.

I will close the thread and when the revisions are done and this guy's profile is settled, just ask me to reopen it. Okay?

 

[Archaron]

Okay, I'm going to start the revision right now.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Why is this highlighted?

 

[Archaron]

Bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

I don't know anything about sephiroth so i'll wait until I've heard the opinions of others.

 

[Archaron]

It has a discussion above about this versus, forms of sephi win, guardian counter and etc. Just ignore my and sigurd discussion.

 

[Archaron]

Bump

 

[Shootingkill]

So, what about Sephiroth's low-godly regen?

 

[Wokistan]

The thorn, void manio, etc would have worked, but in case you haven't moriced the guardian file was deleted for now.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah, which makes this thread pretty much pointless.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

So, what about Sephiroth's low-godly regen?

Make a content revision thread about that.

 

[PaChi2]

The guardian file was erased? Wot.

Im moving this to GD since we cant add it.

 

[Wokistan]

Guardian and the vex were deemed to be in a state where a remake is less effort than trying to fix them. You can just close the thread unless I'm missing something tho.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, we can still discuss it even if it wont be added. Its harmless.

 

[Wokistan]

Seems fine to me if you want

So what were the questions people had?

 

[PaChi2]

Seems fine to me if you want

So what were the questions people had?

Mostly regarding Guardian's low godly regen.

 

[Wokistan]

I gotta sleep, but I can go into it tomorrow

 

[Archaron]

Prepare yourself it that there comes text. If I used a void base, I think it would be simpler and easier to explain.

 

[CNBA3]

Guardians can revive it even after total destruction, based on cabal field reports, weapons destructive values, even other weapons capabilities.

 

[Wokistan]

Ghosts don't need the guardian to be there for the rez, and I believe the ghosts don't normally stick around to the guardian's person and instead transmat in upon the death of the Guardian (otherwise rocket launcher/nova bomb/chaos reach gg permakilled guardian). That actually happened before with older, weaker guardians, when Petra called in an orbital bombardment when she didn't know there were guardians in the area and it destroyed their ghosts, killing them for good. As such, Ghosts aren't constantly with the Guardian anymore.


Killing Ghosts is hard. They're small and most of them isn't really corporeal, should have durability comparable to the wielders, and can move around real quick. Guardians can rez in the middle of a warzone with stuff constantly being shot at the Ghost because of this. People who've killed Ghosts that aren't Hive are Cyrell the Ghost hunter, a Guardian himself who's devoted his life to this, Felwinter, who was a Lord of Iron and was expecting the Ghost to come out, and The Rifleman, the Scorn baron sniper who shot the ghost of Cayde. You'll notice that the three of those are far from an average combatant, 2 were expecting a Ghost to pop out and one devotes his life to this.