Grimjaw clone vs the most skilled 6C out there (Warhammer vs ReZero)

[SatellaTheWoE]

Grimgor ironhide
vs
Cecilus Segmunt
both are tier 6C
Speed is equal
SBA

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Obligatory bump..and here we go

 

[Zabazab]

Interesting title. I wonder if you have a preference!

 

[DaReaperMan]

in terms of a straight up fight... Re:Zero passes the bar for tagging Grimgor, so it's who can take more shit... well, Grimgor has seemingly comparable survivability(type 2 and 3 Immortality helps a lot) but better LS

Because with Grimgor, you don't need to be actually comparable to him in terms of skill to hit him, he's never dodged anyone with his level of skill, and the genius fighters sure as shit aren't on the level of Re:Zero.

And Grimgor tags people with 1-A precog on all dimensions, the ability to see everything he's thinking about doing, oh and did I mention that this same guy Grimgor tagged before he got that OP precog went 1vInfinite against things that were stronger than him, had better sense of the area than him, and had big ass AoEs they were spamming, and won without getting touched? And that to qualify for Supergenius you need to do shit with an infinite amount of combat data at once, a feat of which Grimgor scales to? Yeah Cecilius isn't dodging Grimgor or his grapples, and that's pretty much a GG right there

 

[Zabazab]

I looove skillslop but we do sadly have to translate it into quantifiable means for the sake of a battle instead of tossing nonsense at eachother.

Things like 1-A precog is just completely meaningless without a showcase of how that's functionally different from precog or how it avoids the same pitfalls of precog (namely, even if you see something coming, you can't always dodge it. If Grimgor has scans of dodging insanely-dense AoE like how Cecilus dodged deadly rain by instinctive intuition, that'd help too.

The other advantages I'd point out for Cecilus is a one-shot AP advantage with his swords, and way higher movement speed.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I looove skillslop but we do sadly have to translate it into quantifiable means for the sake of a battle instead of tossing nonsense at eachother.

Things like 1-A precog is just completely meaningless without a showcase of how that's functionally different from precog or how it avoids the same pitfalls of precog (namely, even if you see something coming, you can't always dodge it. If Grimgor has scans of dodging insanely-dense AoE like how Cecilus dodged deadly rain by instinctive intuition, that'd help too.

The other advantages I'd point out for Cecilus is a one-shot AP advantage with his swords, and way higher movement speed.

The 1-A precog is uh... viewing everything on a 1-A scale. Really the best thing to equalize it to is "Grimgor tagged this ****** when he has passive precog always going that tells him literally everything Grimgor was gonna do" so yeh. With Grimgor's skill, the question is whether you can hit him, not if you can dodge him. If you can hit him, chances are he's not gonna throw you around like a dumpster baby. If you can't... you know what happens. But Cecilus 100% can so that's irrelevant

Grimgor is a one-shot above his 23 Gigaton value so Cecilus doesn't get a lot out of use out of his swords' better AP, especially if the fight at all drags on because Grimgor Passively gets like 3x stronger every 3 minutes, so the fight goes on for 5 minutes and suddenly Grimgor has the AP advantage of being at the top of 6-C because he can't break into High 6-C

 

[Zabazab]

The 1-A precog is uh... viewing everything on a 1-A scale. Really the best thing to equalize it to is "Grimgor tagged this ****** when he has passive precog always going that tells him literally everything Grimgor was gonna do" so yeh.

This is how normal precog also works, it tells you what your opponent is gonna do, but ig this one does it with 1-A... range? Potency? It bypasses resistances to normal precog I'd imagine. It doesn't matter much I suppose.

Grimgor is a one-shot above his 23 Gigaton value so Cecilus doesn't get a lot out of use out of his swords' better AP, especially if the fight at all drags on because Grimgor Passively gets like 3x stronger every 3 minutes, so the fight goes on for 5 minutes and suddenly Grimgor has the AP advantage of being at the top of 6-C because he can't break into High 6-C

Cecilus AP would be;
26.5 Gigatons < Cecilus << Character than no-sells Cecilus' attacks << Cecilus one-shots with his swords

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is how normal precog also works, it tells you what your opponent is gonna do, but ig this one does it with 1-A... range? Potency? It bypasses resistances to normal precog I'd imagine. It doesn't matter much I suppose.

Normal precog is usually like a few seconds or It was revealed to me in a dream

I'm talking every single thing Grimgor could possibly do across all timelines through the entire fight before Grimgor even got to Middenheim Archaon knew, and Grimgor still was beating him before an amp from Archaon broke Gitsnik

Cecilus AP would be;
26.5 Gigatons < Cecilus << Character than no-sells Cecilus' attacks << Cecilus one-shots with his swords

Alright, that's a bit closer than, still not breaking Gitsnik but still closer in terms of Cecilus incoming

Because yeah the only thing holding Cecilus back is that Grimgor can grab him with ease, ane Grimgor likes to pin a bitch after he grabs them

 

[Zabazab]

Normal precog is usually like a few seconds or It was revealed to me in a dream

I'm talking every single thing Grimgor could possibly do across all timelines through the entire fight before Grimgor even got to Middenheim Archaon knew, and Grimgor still was beating him before an amp from Archaon broke Gitsnik

This still runs head-first into the main weakness of precog: the gap between knowing something is coming and responding to it.

Because yeah the only thing holding Cecilus back is that Grimgor can grab him with ease, ane Grimgor likes to pin a bitch after he grabs them

Cecilus possesses the secret art of moving backwards 900x faster than Grimgor can move forwards (movement speed-diffed)

 

[DaReaperMan]

This still runs head-first into the main weakness of precog: the gap between knowing something is coming and responding to it.

Archaon definitely responds to his precog, it's why he de-god'd Valten the minute they met

Cecilus possesses the secret art of moving backwards 900x faster than Grimgor can move forwards (movement speed-diffed)

Grimgor has the better practical range though

Y'know since all of Cecilus' ranged options are resisted to a 7 layer Potency, or a 1-A Potency

 

[Zabazab]

Archaon definitely responds to his precog, it's why he de-god'd Valten the minute they met

This isn't what I mean, someone can be completely omniscient and still be unable to dodge a punch no matter how hard they try to dodge, due to the limit of the present body.

Grimgor has the better practical range though

Y'know since all of Cecilus' ranged options are resisted to a 7 layer Potency, or a 1-A Potency

Cecilus' only ranged option is swinging his sword, but it cuts things kms away.

 

[Phoenks]

And Grimgor tags people with 1-A precog on all dimensions, the ability to see everything he's thinking about doing, oh and did I mention that this same guy Grimgor tagged before he got that OP precog went 1vInfinite against things that were stronger than him, had better sense of the area than him, and had big ass AoEs they were spamming, and won without getting touched? And that to qualify for Supergenius you need to do shit with an infinite amount of combat data at once, a feat of which Grimgor scales to? Yeah Cecilius isn't dodging Grimgor or his grapples, and that's pretty much a GG right there

This is just either a ridiculously large anti-feat for the "1-A precog" guy or a resistance to precognition.

Precognition is the ability to see an event before it happens. If said character could literally see everything that Grimgor to do across "all dimensions" and still couldn't hit him, assuming they are equal in statistics, then they might as well be Animalistic in combat intelligence, because that's absolutely braindead. There comes a certain point where you end up writing your supposedly "skilled" characters into being ridiculously non-skilled when you do shit like that. And if they couldn't actually see what Grimgor was going to do, then Grimgor should just have resistance to precog.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This isn't what I mean, someone can be completely omniscient and still be unable to dodge a punch no matter how hard they try to dodge, due to the limit of the present body.

Grimgor and Archaon are comparable in speed, legitimately the only advantages Grimgor had before U'zuhl were AP and LS, as well as skill. Afterwards, it was just LS/skill

Cecilus' only ranged option is swinging his sword, but it cuts things kms away.

Grimgor resists hax from that. Unless it's purely physical? If it is, Cecilus probably wins off of Starting distance alone, 4 KM is a really long time to hit Grimgor with a weapon that strong, even if Cecilus will be trying to find Grimgor through the trees, cause uh... Grimgor ain't stealthy. Up close it's probably a Grimgor dub tho.

This is just either a ridiculously large anti-feat for the "1-A precog" guy or a resistance to precognition.

Precognition is the ability to see an event before it happens. If said character could literally see everything that Grimgor to do across "all dimensions" and still couldn't hit him, assuming they are equal in statistics, then they might as well be Animalistic in combat intelligence, because that's absolutely braindead. There comes a certain point where you end up writing your supposedly "skilled" characters into being ridiculously non-skilled when you do shit like that. And if they couldn't actually see what Grimgor was going to do, then Grimgor should just have resistance to precog.

Grimgor wasn't dodging, he flat out couldn't, that's why a good chunk of my early posts were basically saying. "There's a minimum skill to hit Grimgor. Re: Zero dogs it hard." Grimgor actually got a slash across the chest even, but he was still winning and landing every hit he threw out, and did so even when Archaon activated his amp for six whole hits until Grimgor's weapon just broke. And after that Archaon just flat decapitated Grimgor due to the AP amp.

Warhammer Fantasy has it's fair share of BS skill feats, the only thing the precog thing is really used for is to just say "Anal prediction or Precog will not save you from getting hit" or me just saying how ******* ridiculous Grimgor winning against Archaon for any amount of time is. The argument shouldn't even really be on the skill, because whether Grimgor is better or not doesn't matter most of the time, what matter is if you're skilled enough to hit Grimgor.

If you are, congratulations, you stand a chance to fight back against the over 12 foot tall mean green machine!

 

[Zabazab]

Grimgor resists hax from that. Unless it's purely physical? If it is, Cecilus probably wins off of Starting distance alone, 4 KM is a really long time to hit Grimgor with a weapon that strong, even if Cecilus will be trying to find Grimgor through the trees, cause uh... Grimgor ain't stealthy. Up close it's probably a Grimgor dub tho.

Yeah I'm talking about AP from the sword pressure, they regularly cut things that are kms away. IK Warhammer goons resist everything under the sun, I doubt CM2, SR, and Space hax are any different. And I'm pretty sure SBA got changed due to 4km starting distance being dumb?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah I'm talking about AP from the sword pressure, they regularly cut things that are kms away.

then yeah thats GG, I don't know what Grimgor can do when his head gets cut off from 50 meters away lol

And I'm pretty sure SBA got changed due to 4km starting distance being dumb?

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Nope

But if it was, it'd be way worse for Grimgor lmfao

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

then yeah thats GG, I don't know what Grimgor can do when his head gets cut off from 50 meters away lol

is this a vote for Cecilus?

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Cecilus range ***** fra

 

[SeijiSetto]

And I'm pretty sure SBA got changed due to 4km starting distance being dumb?

SBA still just starts them at the maximum range of either character (or 4km if their range is larger than 4km)

 

[DaReaperMan]

is this a vote for Cecilus?

That's a vote for Grimgor can't win at SBA range

There is no "he'll use stealth tactics" or something like that, because Grimgor has NEVER used stealth tactics, and actively loves a good fight so he will go straight with prior knowledge due to being excited it's someone to fight who will last longer than it takes for Grimgor to get into melee with them

Don't get me wrong, if this started at like 10-5 meters away, I'd say Grimgor wins, it's a close fight but better LS hands it to him, but the best way to beat Grimgor is to just kite him lol

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

noway this thread died

 

[DaReaperMan]

noway this thread died

I mean, it's either Cecilus stomps because Grimgor will never stealth, and just ends up getting killed before he even has the chance to enter melee, or they start close and Grimgor wins because in a slugging match, his LS would net him a close win lol

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I mean, it's either Cecilus stomps because Grimgor will never stealth, and just ends up getting killed before he even has the chance to enter melee, or they start close and Grimgor wins because in a slugging match, his LS would net him a close win lol

Cecilus using cloud-cutting isnt his usual method of attack

 

[DaReaperMan]

Cecilus using cloud-cutting isnt his usual method of attack

If he's using ranged attacks, chances are they're some form of cloud cutting, since the hax is obviously not going to do much when Grimgor throws his layered resistances... and sometimes 1-A resistances

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

If he's using ranged attacks, chances are they're some form of cloud cutting, since the hax is obviously not going to do much when Grimgor throws his layered resistances... and sometimes 1-A resistances

nobody even mentioned hax, what i am saying is he doesnt usually nuke them from a distance, is he likely to do it because of Godly instinct? yeah sure but he is also likely to fight in cqc