Gravity Falls: Minor Speed upgrade

[StrymULTRA]

While waiting for the Book of Bill to come in my home, I have noticed that there's this series of 4 Relativistic calculations for the verse, which for some reasons were applied to just Ford.

This should be pretty straightfoward. Everyone else in the verse should also be upgraded to from Superhuman to Relativistic (0.37c), due to Dipper (one of the ones who performed said feats) being a normal human in-verse, and others having consistently performed feats on a similar level.

Bill and Shacktron's speed would also be upgraded through this calc, as before it uses only baseline Superhuman speed, but now we have a calc to base ourselves on.

The speed would be: 0.37c * (1.0103649e21/1.71) = 2.186169667e+20c or = 218.62 Quintillion times FTL.

HOWEVER, I can agree if this at this point gets on calc stacking territory, and given that Infinity Ultron doesn't get his normal speed upscaled to his large size, then I don't mind if we scrap the base speed, and use instead the 5.5 m/s which is used as baseline in these calcs:

5.5 * (1.0103649e21/1.71) = 3.249711667e+21 m/s, which is 1.083987132e+13c, or 10.84 Trillion times FTL, which would be around a downgrade of roughly x2.26, which isn't that bad either.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree and I think using 5.5 is better (it’s definitely calc stacking to use speed that came from other calcs)

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

I agree and I think using 5.5 is better (it’s definitely calc stacking to use speed that came from other calcs)

As I understand it, we already use this method in the profile as an accepted one, and we multiply the difference in height by Stanford's superhuman speed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

As I understand it, we already use this method in the profile as an accepted one, and we multiply the difference in height by Stanford's superhuman speed.

Yeah, but I thought it was fine because, ya know, it was still pretty close to human speed. Now however we're going directly in calc stacking territory.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

As I understand it, we already use this method in the profile as an accepted one, and we multiply the difference in height by Stanford's superhuman speed.

Idk how it was accepted in the first place, given how it is clearly Calc Stacking and, how Strym himself noted in the OP, Infinity Ultron did not upscale from his calculated value but was assumed to have average human one.

And the reason is likely due to it being close to the value without using Superhuman Speed calc anyways, so why bother, but I dislike this tbh. If the method is wrong - it should not be used regardless of how small the difference is from the right method.

 

[Nami_Kami]

While waiting for the Book of Bill to come in my home, I have noticed that there's this series of 4 Relativistic calculations for the verse, which for some reasons were applied to just Ford.

This should be pretty straightfoward. Everyone else in the verse should also be upgraded to from Superhuman to Relativistic (0.37c), due to Dipper (one of the ones who performed said feats) being a normal human in-verse, and others having consistently performed feats on a similar level.

Bill and Shacktron's speed would also be upgraded through this calc, as before it uses only baseline Superhuman speed, but now we have a calc to base ourselves on.

The speed would be: 0.37c * (1.0103649e21/1.71) = 2.186169667e+20c or = 218.62 Quintillion times FTL.

HOWEVER, I can agree if this at this point gets on calc stacking territory, and given that Infinity Ultron doesn't get his normal speed upscaled to his large size, then I don't mind if we scrap the base speed, and use instead the 5.5 m/s which is used as baseline in these calcs:

5.5 * (1.0103649e21/1.71) = 3.249711667e+21 m/s, which is 1.083987132e+13c, or 10.84 Trillion times FTL, which would be around a downgrade of roughly x2.26, which isn't that bad either.

Relativistic GF sounds so inconsistent. Lol. That's what happens when you try to appeal to reality and assume lasers and radiation = automatically LS

 

[StrymULTRA]

Relativistic GF sounds so inconsistent. Lol. That's what happens when you try to appeal to reality and assume lasers and radiation = automatically LS

Do you realize this is a cartoon, thus humans can be whatever stat they want, right?

We have High 6-A and MFTL+ Timmy Turner, Relativistic Danganronpa/Pokemon humans, etc.

Plus it's not even random radiations, they're electromagnetic waves which are indeed SoL.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Relativistic GF sounds so inconsistent. Lol. That's what happens when you try to appeal to reality and assume lasers and radiation = automatically LS

How literal flashlights and electromagnetic waves ≠ LS? Also y’know, main heroes tend to have good stats despite being merely humans in many verses.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Do you realize this is a cartoon, thus humans can be whatever stat they want, right?

We have High 6-A and MFTL+ Timmy Turner, Relativistic Danganronpa/Pokemon humans, etc.

Plus it's not even random radiations, they're electromagnetic waves which are indeed SoL.

It doesn't matter if it's a cartoon, they are consistently portrayed as normal humans to low superhuman. They consistently fail to react to way less than relativistic. This is about consistency. It's a cartoon, these lasers can easily be below LS.

As I said, Appealing to Reality and assuming every laser or magnetic wave is LS is exactly what gives rise to these inconsistent ratings.

 

[Nami_Kami]

How literal flashlights and electromagnetic waves ≠ LS? Also y’know, main heroes tend to have good stats despite being merely humans in many verses.

Because in fiction these kinds of things can be much slower than their IRL counterparts, and these characters are consistently nowhere near relativistic. Even the very scene is self-contradictory, as they are able to SEE the lasers or whatever else coming, which'd require the light bouncing off said laser to reach their retinas WAY before the lasers themselves.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It doesn't matter if it's a cartoon, they are consistently portrayed as normal humans to low superhuman. They consistently fail to react to way less than relativistic. This is about consistency. It's a cartoon, these lasers can easily be below LS.

Doesn't matter if they're humans. Again, we index normal "humans" potrayed as such as extremely superhuman if they have enough feats supporting that, unless you think that Pokemon/Danganronpa humans should be downgraded all to human stats.

Even the very scene is self-contradictory, as they are able to SEE the lasers or whatever else coming, which'd require the light bouncing off said laser to reach their retinas WAY before the lasers themselves.

This is genuinely just stupid. Every beam in fiction is not even sound speed by your logic because the viewer can see them.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Doesn't matter if they're humans. Again, we index normal "humans" potrayed as such as extremely superhuman if they have enough feats supporting that, unless you think that Pokemon/Danganronpa humans should be downgraded all to human stats.

My argument is not that "they are humans", my argument is that they are portrayed as human LEVEL or low superhuman level CONSISTENTLY. We can find hundreds of examples of these characters being unable to react to way less than relativistic. So either this is an outlier or more likely the writer did not think of the lasers or waves as LS by the time of writing the scene.

This is genuinely just stupid. Every beam in fiction is not even sound speed by your logic because the viewer can see them.

See how you're only appealing to reality when it's convinient for you? Lol. Why is your interpretation that it's LS better than mine that it's slower-than-light, something we see being true in the show?

Other verses are irrelevant to this. This should be a case-by-case scenario. If an attack is said to be LS or is shown being faster than another LS attack then that would take priority. If an attack is never said to be LS and thr characters are consistently nowhere near LS then there is 0 ground to dismiss actual logic. Fact is that the lasers seen being dodged in GF are not LS since the characters can see them coming.

 

[ByArrow]

As I said, Appealing to Reality and assuming every laser or magnetic wave is LS is exactly what gives rise to these inconsistent ratings.

We don't count every laser as LS. There is a standard for that. If it meets this standard, it is considered LS. And the speed of magnetic waves is constant. So we automatically count every magnetic wave as LS. And we assume that everything is as it is in the real world, unless the verse clearly shows that it doesn't work that way.

 

[Nami_Kami]

We don't count every laser as LS. There is a standard for that. If it meets this standard, it is considered LS. And the speed of magnetic waves is constant. So we automatically count every magnetic wave as LS. And we assume that everything is as it is in the real world, unless the verse clearly shows that it doesn't work that way.

Cool, these standards don't prevent characters on this wiki being wanked to relativistic or FTL off not-to-be-taken-seriously laser attacks. Lol. Focusing on Gravity Falls specifically, the reason we can't assume they LS is due to how inconsistent that'd be for these characters and due to us directly seeing light blitzing said lasers by entering the retinas of the people that react to them. This has way more value.

 

[StrymULTRA]

My argument is not that "they are humans", my argument is that they are portrayed as human LEVEL or low superhuman level CONSISTENTLY. We can find hundreds of examples of these characters being unable to react to way less than relativistic. So either this is an outlier or more likely the writer did not think of the lasers or waves as LS by the time of writing the scene.

Mind listing some "anti-feats" then? Because you keep shouting "they're consistently superhuman at max!" when you don't even prove that.

See how you're only appealing to reality when it's convinient for you? Lol. Why is your interpretation that it's LS better than mine that it's slower-than-light, something we see being true in the show?

Because those things being SoL is due to said SoL being a constant for these things.

Feat 1: Literally stated to be a flashlight, self explanatory.
Feat 2: Said to be a magnet gun. Those are textbook lightspeed, and it's why Danganronpa has such speed rating as well. That thing has even taken down a whole helicopter too.
Feat 3: Literally a rainbow, self explanatory.
Feat 4: While is the weakest among these, it's stated to be radiation. The acronym of laser is literally "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation". Given that it's something that directly messes with the braincells, and in-verse is visually shown to be a laser, I think it's safe enough to be called SoL, especially given X-rays are used as a way to emit radiations to cure brain cancer irl.

Fact is that the lasers seen being dodged in GF are not LS since the characters can see them coming.

By this logic no laser attack in fiction is SoL due to characters seeing those.

and due to us directly seeing light blitzing said lasers by entering the retinas of the people that react to them.

The reason why we can see these is because the show purposely slows them down in order to make the story not incomprehensible, this concept is literally called Cinematic Time. It's why we can see the movements of characters who feat-wise would completely be invisible to us if they're accurately potrayed in the show. It's not like Goku is not MFTL+ because we viewers can see his attacks, no?

Cool, these standards don't prevent characters on this wiki being wanked to relativistic or FTL off not-to-be-taken-seriously laser attacks.

Then make a CRT to change the standards, because it's always assumed that it's a feat of the characters, and not an anti-feat of the lasers, unless you want to argue that literal light in GF verse is not SoL.

 

[ThanatosX]

Why is your interpretation that it's LS better than mine that it's slower-than-light, something we see being true in the show?

Because Strym's interpretation is based on real life physics which, unless proven otherwise, apply to the Gravity Falls verse too. Meanwhile, your interpretation is reliant on a disbelief that the characters can be this fast rather than a statement that light in the verse is slower than real life, a interpretation that would require far more evidence than just assuming that a story that is supposed to take place in a version of Earth have the same law of physics to the version of Earth we know.
In other words, you are the one that needs to provide evidence of your interpretation rather than Strym.

 

[TheShape03]

That's 4 sub-relativistic+ to relativistic speed feats, seems consistent to me.

Not to mention the light comes from realistic light sources and even refracts in mirrors.

I agree.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

Agreed.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I agree

 

[Planck69]

Seems fine to me. The pedantry about the rating is just arguing via incredulity.

 

[QrowBarr]

Relativistic GF is so goated I agree

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

I disagree. These are OBVIOUS outlier. The calculation with the gravity gun is complete nonsense, you literally calculate the speed at which Dipper FALLS IN FREE FALL parallel to how the beam shoots.

So in gravity falls the gravity of the planet is stronger than in a black hole, since you fall at speeds close to light?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I can agree if this at this point gets on calc stacking territory

Yes, this is. Use the result of another (relativistic) calculation to calculate the galaxy.

Eficiente said this in the calculation comment.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, this is. Use the result of another (relativistic) calculation to calculate the galaxy.

It was only using baseline Superhuman here, not Relativistic, but alr.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Because Strym's interpretation is based on real life physics which, unless proven otherwise, apply to the Gravity Falls verse too. Meanwhile, your interpretation is reliant on a disbelief that the characters can be this fast rather than a statement that light in the verse is slower than real life, a interpretation that would require far more evidence than just assuming that a story that is supposed to take place in a version of Earth have the same law of physics to the version of Earth we know.
In other words, you are the one that needs to provide evidence of your interpretation rather than Strym.

That's just blatantly ignorant of what my argument is, considering I gave direct physics to contradict his claim. I've proven the feat is self-contradictory.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's just blatantly ignorant of what my argument is, considering I gave direct physics to contradict his claim. I've proven the feat is self-contradictory.

You didn't...?

All you said is "no it's not because otherwise the characters are too fast!", you didn't counter any of my points above.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Mind listing some "anti-feats" then? Because you keep shouting "they're consistently superhuman at max!" when you don't even prove that.

•The fact normal people can consistently react to and tag the characters.
•The fact that these characters can't properly react to falling, even tho Earth's gravitational acceleration is only 9.8 meters per second.
•The fact these characters are clearly not durable enough to withstand relativistic movement ( which requires massive durabillity ) as thry get hurt by falls, random objects and normal people.
•The fact these characters almost get run over by cars on many occasions.
•The fact these characters can't react or struggle to react to falling objects ( We already mentioned the speed of the GA ).

Because those things being SoL is due to said SoL being a constant for these things.

Feat 1: Literally stated to be a flashlight, self explanatory.
Feat 2: Said to be a magnet gun. Those are textbook lightspeed, and it's why Danganronpa has such speed rating as well. That thing has even taken down a whole helicopter too.
Feat 3: Literally a rainbow, self explanatory.
Feat 4: While is the weakest among these, it's stated to be radiation. The acronym of laser is literally "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation". Given that it's something that directly messes with the braincells, and in-verse is visually shown to be a laser, I think it's safe enough to be called SoL, especially given X-rays are used as a way to emit radiations to cure brain cancer irl.

This is all irrelevant. You are not attacking my argument in any way. I am arguing you're Appealing to Reality, which is a logical fallacy, and that none of these are LS. The evidence they're not LS is that the light reflected off all of these blitzed the waves and flashlight by reaching the retinas of the people much before said waves and flashlight.

By this logic no laser attack in fiction is SoL due to characters seeing those.

Not really, some verses make their lasers invisible for that reason. Also, as I've said, other verses are irrelevant. If other verses have evidence the lasers are LS then they're LS. If a verse has nothing directly implying it's LS it isn't, unless within the context of the show it makes sense for it to be LS. GF does not fit this.

The reason why we can see these is because the show purposely slows them down in order to make the story not incomprehensible, this concept is literally called Cinematic Time. It's why we can see the movements of characters who feat-wise would completely be invisible to us if they're accurately potrayed in the show. It's not like Goku is not MFTL+ because we viewers can see his attacks, no?

It's hilarious how you keep attacking arguments I never made. I am not saying us seeing them has relevance. I am saying the character seeing them has relevance, as it means the light reflecting off them blitzed the said "lasers". Also, now that you mention it cinematic time also debunks you, because the flashlight being activated and the light coming out happen within the same scene with same cinematic time. For the flashlight to trigger the electricity within it must have travelled. It happened instantly in cinematic time. Meaning we are not looking at time slowed to show relativistic events or else the flsshlight would have taken longer to trigger. GG. Thanks for the new counter. Gravity Falls clearly does not supoort this being LS.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

•The fact these characters are clearly not durable enough to withstand relativistic movement ( which requires massive durabillity ) as thry get hurt by falls, random objects and normal people.
•The fact these characters almost get run over by cars on many occasions.

I'm not going to comment on the others but don't put these two, we would literally have to downgrade 80% of the wiki for stuff like this, no one can survive acceleration to light speed nor do they have the energy to maintain it if we apply real law of physic in that aspect, this is not turn a feat into pis/outlier

Combat/reaction speed=/=travel speed does not mean Outlier, an example, Early DBZ goku is subsonic+ with Rel speed

Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Son Goku is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries. He is a Saiyan sent to Earth as a baby by his father Bardock to escape the destruction of the planet Vegeta and the Saiyan race. Adopted by Grandpa Gohan, he became a kind-hearted boy after he bumped his head, starting his great...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[StrymULTRA]

•The fact normal people can consistently react to and tag the characters.

But they are normal people in-verse, come on lmao. It just means that every person is that fast in GF. If we have the Simpsons where every human is Subsonic+, or, in the most extreme case, The Fairly Oddparents where every human character is Multi-Continent and MFTL+, then Gravity Falls humans being generally Relativistic isn't that crazy.

•The fact that these characters can't properly react to falling, even tho Earth's gravitational acceleration is only 9.8 meters per second.

Literally every fictional character is like that. Falling speed/damage is generally wanked af in fiction, everything for some reason is scared of it despite having higher feats than that.

(Also btw that's acceleration, not speed).

•The fact these characters are clearly not durable enough to withstand relativistic movement ( which requires massive durabillity ) as thry get hurt by falls, random objects and normal people.

So... what in the actual **** is this argument? Are you saying that characters can't be FTL if they're like Building level or such? Because you're basically denying Dio being MFTL simply because he's Tier 8.

•The fact these characters almost get run over by cars on many occasions.

That's what happens when you don't give too much thought on these feats. It's a cartoon, again.

This is all irrelevant. You are not attacking my argument in any way. I am arguing you're Appealing to Reality, which is a logical fallacy, and that none of these are LS. The evidence they're not LS is that the light reflected off all of these blitzed the waves and flashlight by reaching the retinas of the people much before said waves and flashlight.

Not really, some verses make their lasers invisible for that reason. Also, as I've said, other verses are irrelevant. If other verses have evidence the lasers are LS then they're LS. If a verse has nothing directly implying it's LS it isn't, unless within the context of the show it makes sense for it to be LS. GF does not fit this.

It's hilarious how you keep attacking arguments I never made. I am not saying us seeing them has relevance. I am saying the character seeing them has relevance, as it means the light reflecting off them blitzed the said "lasers". Also, now that you mention it cinematic time also debunks you, because the flashlight being activated and the light coming out happen within the same scene with same cinematic time. For the flashlight to trigger the electricity within it must have travelled. It happened instantly in cinematic time. Meaning we are not looking at time slowed to show relativistic events or else the flsshlight would have taken longer to trigger. GG. Thanks for the new counter. Gravity Falls clearly does not supoort this being LS.

Why is appeal to reality an argument here? I am simply using the standards this wiki uses about determining if a laser is LS, and none of your concerns are factors used to discredit those being SoL.

Plus... your argument against the flashlight is just stupid, as you're literally arguing that in the GF verse, regular light is slower than common electricity, which would need way more evidence than just that. That or also other sources of light like a literal rainbow, are you arguing that common sunlight in GF is barely faster than humans now? Also, cinematic time is also pretty fucky, as it slows down stuff only in the parts needed for the viewer to understand it, it's not like that if a verse shows speed blitz once, then it must do so all the time.

Sorry but your implications are just leading to totally illogical things, because the light of these not only has all the reasons to move at SoL, due to them coming from realistic sources of light, but them being slower than actual light leads to nonsensical implications.

Everything you've said thus far is argument from incredulity, in short.

 

[Nami_Kami]

You didn't...?

All you said is "no it's not because otherwise the characters are too fast!", you didn't counter any of my points above.

I've already proven you have negative reading comprehension. No need to prove it further.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I've already proven you have negative reading comprehension. No need to prove it further.

Ya know that this kind of rudeness can make you get reported, correct? Don't do it again.

 

[Nami_Kami]

But they are normal people in-verse, come on lmao. It just means that every person is that fast in GF. If we have the Simpsons where every human is Subsonic+, or, in the most extreme case, The Fairly Oddparents where every human character is Multi-Continent and MFTL+, then Gravity Falls humans being generally Relativistic isn't that crazy.

The fact that your argument is so bad that you have to claim "upscales normal people in GF" says it all. This is a massive stretch.

Literally every fictional character is like that. Falling speed/damage is generally wanked af in fiction, everything for some reason is scared of it despite having higher feats than that.

Denying clear contradiction to relativistic GF humans by using "other characters are like that too" is not taking away from the contradiction. Those "other characters" have clear-cut feats and verbatim statements to support their tier, hence such anti-feats are not taken as seriously. Verses like GF that show anti-feat after anti-feat are a different story.

That's what happens when you don't give too much thought on these feats. It's a cartoon, again.

So when I present anti-feats the argument is "it's a cartoon bro the writers didn't give it thought". Yet when you present a goofy "normal humans in GF = relativistic" scale it's all good, as if the writers thought of the feats as relativistic while writing it. You are picking and choosing when to apply your logistics.

Why is appeal to reality an argument here? I am simply using the standards this wiki uses about determining if a laser is LS, and none of your concerns are factors used to discredit those being SoL.

Okay, and I am presenting anti-feats to prove this doesn't work here + evidence those lasers are below LS.

Plus... your argument against the flashlight is just stupid, as you're literally arguing that in the GF verse, regular light is slower than common electricity, which would need way more evidence than just that. That or also other sources of light like a literal rainbow, are you arguing that common sunlight in GF is barely faster than humans now? Also, cinematic time is also pretty fucky, as it slows down stuff only in the parts needed for the viewer to understand it, it's not like that if a verse shows speed blitz once, then it must do so all the time.

Yet here you are trying to argue normal humans = relativistic and all anti-feats = PIS because it's a cartoon. Lol. No, my argument is using your own argument. You yourself used cinematic time ( even tho it was unrelated to my argument ). I proved how cinematic time shows the thing they reacted to and dodged is below electricity. Why it's slower than normal light is irrelevant. It is slower for one reason or another. Cartoon logic.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Looks good, I agree.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The fact that your argument is so bad that you have to claim "upscales normal people in GF" says it all.

Do you have anything better to say than "it's wrong because it's absurd"?

Denying clear contradiction to relativistic GF humans by using "other characters are likr that too" is not taking away from the contradiction. Those "other characters" have clear-cut feats and verbatim statements to support their tier, hence such anti-feats are not taken literally.

So why isn't GF case not the same? They have 4 feats, if it was a single one sure, it'd be an outlier, but 4 is more than enough proof.

So when I present anti-feats the argument is "it's a cartoon bro the writers didn't give it thought". Yet when you present a goofy "normal humans in GF = relativistic" scale it's all good, as if the writers thought of the feats as relativistic while writing it. You are picking and choosing when to apply your logistics.

Writers in general don't give a f about powerscaling, Butch Hartman was literally surprised from Danny being 8-A, let alone 2-A.

We only find what is more consistent, and we can't simply discredit multiple feats because "but the authors clearly didn't intend them to be this powerful/fast!", because not only this relies on author intent we can't prove, but also kinda of debunks a lot of fiction under this premise.

Okay, and I am presenting anti-feats to prove this doesn't work here + evidence those lasers are below LS.

"natural light is below LS" lol ok.

Yet here you are trying to argue normal humans = relativistic and all anti-feats = PIS because it's a cartoon. Lol. No, my argument is better than yours. You yourself used cinematic time even tho it was unrelated to my argument. I proved how cinematic time shows the thing they reacted to and dodged is below electricity. Why it's slower than normal light is irrelevant. It is slower.

This does not reply to my argument. Your only reply is just "I debunked you all the time!", just give me an actual refute instead of this namecalling.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

nami kami is coping
i agree with the OP

 

[Quantu]

OP looks good.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The calculation with the gravity gun is complete nonsense, you literally calculate the speed at which Dipper FALLS IN FREE FALL parallel to how the beam shoots.

Actually... you're right on this one.

I've checked the feat multiple times, and Dipper does not exactly "move" along the beam. However his eyes can still move, so I guess a calc on it will suffice?



I'll wait for @Jason_Courne to make an answer to this before using it, but yeah, this should go. Thus they shall be simply be downscaled from Ford's 0.36c feat.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Do you have anything better to say than "it's wrong because it's absurd"?

I've provided much more than this, including actual science contradicting your argument and many forms of anti-feats that happen all the time in GF, which you had no actual counter to.

So why isn't GF case not the same? They have 4 feats, if it was a single one sure, it'd be an outlier, but 4 is more than enough proof.

"4 feats" with a much higher amount of anti-feats, and all these 4 "feats" are questionable at best and rely on assumption.

Writers in general don't give a f about powerscaling, Butch Hartman was literally surprised from Danny being 8-A, let alone 2-A.

Doesn't change the fact that they wrote so many anti-feats. I could pull a 180 and argue that they don't care about powerscaling hence the LS stuff is invalid. But that obviously won't fly. Can you provide me wn argument against the anti-feats other than "but the writers don't care about scaling"? Since this goes against you just as much as it goes against me, if not more.

We only find what is more consistent, and we can't simply discredit multiple feats because "but the authors clearly didn't intend them to be this powerful/fast!", because not only this relies on author intent we can't prove, but also kinda of debunks a lot of fiction under this premise.

The times the characters struggle with things that are nowhere near relativistic greatly exceeds 4, so the whole "relativistic GF" argument is what'd be inconsistent. You are misrepresenting the actual argument again. And I've proven the lasers going by IRL logic are below LS for whatever reason already.

"natural light is below LS" lol ok.

Not only is this yet another blatant strawman but it's also a non-argument. Do you have a debunk to these lasers being observed to be slower than light?

This does not reply to my argument. Your only reply is just "I debunked you all the time!", just give me an actual refute instead of this namecalling.

I've provided many refutes, none of which you've given me a counter other than "this is stupid". Stop reflecting

 

[StrymULTRA]

I've provided much more than this, including actual science contradicting your argument and many forms of anti-feats that happen all the time in GF, which you had no actual counter to.

"Actual science" bro I am the one who gave proofs and links.

"4 feats" with a much higher amount of anti-feats, and all these 4 "feats" are questionable at best and rely on assumption.

You didn't list me any true anti feat, only random stuff that is generally wanked across all of media, not just GF.

Doesn't change the fact that they wrote so many anti-feats. I could pull a 180 and argue that they don't care about powerscaling hence the LS stuff is invalid. But that obviously won't fly. Can you provide me wn argument against the anti-feats other than "but the writers don't care about scaling"? Since this goes against you just as much as it goes against me, if not more.

Authors can be ignorant on how powerful they make the characters. The authors of Archie Sonic don't believe him being above Wall level, for instance.

Not only is this yet another blatant strawman but it's also a non-argument. Do you have a debunk to these lasers being observed to be slower than light?

Your only argument is "that light is slower than light because these characters can dodge it", also you ignored that's not a criteria that'd make the light dodging invalid on the page.

But anyway I am not entertaining this anymore. You're genuinely just repeating yourself.