GRAPPLER BAKI SPEED REVISIONS

[Amlad22]

He isn't. The two are comparable.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'm not sure if there's enough proof for an 8x jump, and I think the implication behind Doppo saying that the hits weren't doing anything was specifically to imply they weren't doing damage, as Yujiro is visibly unscathed despite the earlier denting (he could've been using his body control to make the punches look damaging, hence Doppo's "stop acting" remark).

I do believe I agree with everything else, and I look forward to the Powers and Abilities revision

 

[Amlad22]

@BakiHanma18

Agreed with all.

What's your opinion on Doppo with Sangan and Base Baki Dou Baki? Do you agree or disagree with a possibly high hypersonic rating?

 

[BakiHanma18]

@BakiHanma18
Agreed with all.

What's your opinion on Doppo with Sangan and Base Baki Dou Baki? Do you agree or disagree with a possibly high hypersonic rating?

I'd be inclined to agree with a possibly high Hypersonic, as it indicates there is room for doubt with possibly, but theres also evidence to say this is likely

 

[BakiHanma18]

Question: Did Baki's jab blitz Musashi or just outspeed him? Its kinda hard to tell since he couldve stopped it the whole time via precog, but just how much faster is it?

 

[KGiffoni]

I'd say blitz since even Yujiro deems it as unavoidable and Baki has the "FTL" hyperbole

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'd say blitz since even Yujiro deems it as unavoidable and Baki has the "FTL" hyperbole

That's my thinking as well. It's definitely not FTL, hence why we all consider it hyperbole like you said, but the use of that hyperbole definitely means something, even more so after Yujiro's endorsement of the move and the one saying this is a post Yujiro fight Baki

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Amlad22]

Most of my original changes remain from what I can gather with a few changes.

Katsumi will he moved down to supersonic and everyone above him will move down to At least Supersonic. Essentially At least Supersonic likely higher is gone now.

Baki Dou Baki, Prime Doppo with Sangan and Nomi will get a possibly High Hypersonic added to their rating

The only thing we need to fully decide on is if Yujiro with DB and those who scale to him should be above or below the True Mach Fist

We still need to get the timeframe for Musashi's feat reviewed although I don't see why. It's the exact same feat that has already been accepted just adding a mid end since the calc only did a low end. All the other calcs are good.

 

[BakiHanma18]

As far as Hitless Blow (True Mach Fist) and it's comparison to DB Yujiro, I'd say Yujiro is faster. Hitless Blow scales to Pickle. It may be marginally, perhaps even substantially above Pickle, but it scales to him via their fight. If that's the case, Baki without DB and Pickle are of comparable speeds, although Baki is clearly faster to some degree, so Hitless Blow scales fairly close to Baki without DB. The rest is just looking at what we have now. Baki without DB should be roughly +4x slower than Yujiro with DB, as he was able to keep pace with him for an extended period with DB, but without DB, his stats decrease by 4x. This would lead me to believe that the Hitless Blow, when performed by Katsumi Orochi, would be unqualifiably slower than DB Yujiro, but definitely slower than him

 

[Promestein]

Pickle didn't react to the attack, though?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Pickle didn't react to the attack, though?

It's a little weird because of the context of Pickle's character. Because of his mentality, he could've been forgoing defense in a raged attempt to get Katsumi back for the pain, but the argument could also be made that Pickle got blitzed by Hitless Blow every time it was used, hence no reaction

 

[KGiffoni]

I think HB blitzed Pickle every time it was used

 

[BakiHanma18]

I think HB blitzed Pickle every time it was used

Thoughts on HB vs DB Yujiro in speed?

 

[KGiffoni]

Idk i'd say base Yujiro in slower but DB Yujiro should be naturally faster

 

[BakiHanma18]

Idk i'd say base Yujiro in slower but DB Yujiro should be naturally faster

That sounds about right, I agree

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So when is this going to be added?

 

[Amlad22]

As long as staff are ok with the changes from the original post I made we should be good to add.

DB Yujiro and those who scale to him seem to be the main cause of debate left.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Is there anything I can help with as far as the remaining debates?

 

[Antvasima]

What did Promestein think?

 

[Amlad22]

She thinks DB Yujiro shouldn't scale above hitless blow. I'm more neutral on it and BakiHanma and KGiffoni said he should scale above.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Promestein is a female though.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I'm mean Yujiro is like the strongest thing in his verse so scaling him to someone who's not even in the top 5 seems fine with me.

 

[Promestein]

All your arguments are based off assumptions.

You have no concrete evidence that anyone is even close to the Hitless Blow's speed.

 

[Amlad22]

Sorry about that. I'll edit my comment

As I said I am neutral on this last topic.

Just adding a thought, Yujiro can likely use Hitless blow to an even greater speed than Kaku Kaioh and Katsumi even if his base speed isn't that high.

 

[Promestein]

I'm rather skeptical about giving Yujiro a speed boost for a technique he's never used.

 

[Amlad22]

Yujiro mastered defensive Xiao Lee which is Kaku's greatest technique in a matter of seconds after seeing it be used. I see no reason why hitless blow would be any different. There hasn't been a single move in the series that he can't master, no matter the difficulty.

 

[Promestein]

Did he master it? I don't remember him using it so far.

But even so, we shouldn't give him every single ability in the series just because he can copy the techniques he sees. Even with someone like Yhwach, the Sternritter powers are only acknowledged as a possibility. Same should be done with Yujiro. That was something I planned to handle in my revisions.

 

[Amlad22]

He did master it. He used it twice against Kaku Kaioh to show him that his technique isn't that hard to master but then said it's rude to crush people with their own skills so he went back to using brute force.

It should be likely rather than possibly imo but I get the idea. He hasn't directly shown moves like hitless blow in battle, but given statements about Yujiro and his feats he has shown in regards to copying powers, it's likely he can copy majority of the physical abilities in the series. The only limit is that it needs to be physically possibly. Xiao Lee and hitless blow are incredibly hard to learn, but it's still possible. That's why he could master Xiao Lee, a move that requires decades of training to master, in a matter of seconds.

 

[Promestein]

See, I get that. It's not a matter of it being reasonable, it's a matter about certain things being explicit. We can only concretely list what's explicit.

Jack also copied Aiki from Shibukawa in their fight and Aiki is similarly hard to master.

 

[KGiffoni]

I think a "likely" should be alright

 

[BakiHanma18]

I agree

 

[BakiHanma18]

Are we okay to add this now?

 

[Amlad22]

Well we still need to decide a final rating for DB Yujiro and those who scale.

I think the best way to handle Yujiro with DB might be At least High Hypersonic possibly High Hypersonic+

At least HH for being vastly above his Base stats, possibly HH+ for potentially (key word is potentially) being above Hitless blow in terms of speed. Thoughts?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Well we still need to decide a final rating for DB Yujiro and those who scale.
I think the best way to handle Yujiro with DB might be At least High Hypersonic possibly High Hypersonic+

At least HH for being vastly above his Base stats, possibly HH+ for potentially (key word is potentially) being above Hitless blow in terms of speed. Thoughts?

Well, I gotta say, I think that answer literally incorporates everything we've discussed. There's room for doubt as far as his speed rating, but it gives a definitive "at least" line and a "possible" ceiling

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also, question about Hitless Blow: it's roughly a 10x amp, no? He goes from the Mach 5-10 range to the Mach 50-100 range, so the amp is at most 20x and at least 5x.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Promestein makes sense.

 

[Amlad22]

@BakiHanma18

Yeah that seems like the increase.

@Ant

I also agree with Promestein's idea to add more clarification to Yujiro's abilities that he's never performed and possibly removing a couple.

We can deal with powers and abilities another time as this is a speed revision. But I think I can say now that we can apply these changes unless there are any other disagreements that anyone has?

 

[KGiffoni]

Tbh now that i take some steps back i agree with Promestein when it comes to True Mach Fist and DB Yujiro

 

[BakiHanma18]

I agree, and I'm happy we've been able to quantify 2 of the Bakiverse amps! I might start looking into that and make a CRT to add anything new, but this revision seems to be all in order