Grappler Baki P&A CRT

[BakiHanma18]

Finally, after 7 months, we can get this CRT out! Hopefully nobody finds these additions controversial, or at the very least all additions that seem incorrect have a reasonable and easy-to-agree-on substitute. P.S. Some links are duplicates that were saved for preservation purposes. Duplicates can be disregarded

New Additions

Retsu Kaioh
Acrobatics: 1
Analytical Prediction: 1 2 3
Chi Manipulation: Jumei’s profile on Garouden wiki claims Retsu’s Sunkei is used via Chi, likely referring to the Chinese Fa Jin principle
Extrasensory Perception: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Information Analysis: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Instinctive Reaction: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Limited Statistics Reduction (Reaction Speed): 1 2
Stealth Mastery: 1
Power Mimicry: 1

Che Guevara/Jun Guevaru
Enhanced Senses: 1
Natural Weaponry: used hair needles as weapons

Oliva Biscuit
Statistics Amplification: 1
Enhanced Senses: 1
Statistics Reduction (Stamina): 1
Genius Intelligence: (see his Intelligence section)

Pickle
Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Power Mimicry: 1
Statistics Amplification: 1 2
Sound Manipulation: 1
Resistance to Information Analysis: 1
Information Analysis: 1
A mention of Pickle’s unique physiology in both his abnormally thick and dense muscles and his skeletal structure resisting brain damage
Illusion Creation: 1

Doppo Orochi
Stealth Mastery: 1
Pressure Points/Acupuncture: 1 2 3 4 5
Instinctive Reaction: 1 2
Status Effect Inducement: 1
Resistance to Analytical Prediction: 1
Extrasensory Perception: 1
Information Analysis: 1 2 3
Resistance to Pain Manipulation: 1

Katsumi Orochi
Stealth Mastery: 1
Accelerated Development: 1 2

Kaku Kaioh
Stealth Mastery: 1 2 3
Statistics Amplification: 1

Yujiro Hanma
Fear Manipulation: 1 2 3 4 5
Resistance to Information Analysis: 1
Status Effect Inducement: 1 2

Jack Hanma
Instinctive Reaction: 1 2
Pressure Points: 1
Status Effect Inducement: 1 2 3
Resistance to Poison Manipulation: 1

Chiharu Shiba
Analytical Prediction: 1 2

Baki Hanma
Resistance to Status Effect Inducement: 1 2
Resistance to Analytical Prediction: 1 2
Resistance to Attack Reflection/Ki Manipulation: 1
Status Effect Inducement: 1
Fear Manipulation: 1 2 3
Resistance to Pain Manipulation: 1

Miyamoto Musashi
Resistance to Analytical Prediction/Precognition: 1
Resistance to Electricity Manipulation: 1
Aura: 1
Natural Weaponry: his body is a blade as stated by Doppo prior to their fight as well as others and even Musashi himself, most notably during his final clash with Yujiro

Nomi II
Ki Manipulation: 1 2
Information Analysis: 1

Richard Filth
Resistance to Poison Manipulation: 1

Shinogi Kureha
Resistance to Status Effect Inducement: 1
Paralysis Inducement: 1

Alexander Gallen
Accelerated Development: 1
Acrobatics: 1

Goki Shibukawa
Analytical Prediction: 1 2 3 4
Information Analysis: 1
Pressure Points: 1
Paralysis Inducement: 1
Status Effect Inducement: 1

Kaiohs
Surface Scaling/Water Walking: 1

Additional Links For Existing P&A
Baki Hanma
Enhanced Senses: 1 2
Extrasensory Perception: 1 2

Miyamoto Musashi
Enhanced Senses: 1 2

Yujiro Hanma
Extrasensory Perception: 1
Longevity: 1
Resistance to Disease Manipulation: 1
Resistance to Pain Manipulation: 1

Goki Shibukawa
Extrasensory Perception: 1 2

Retsu Kaioh
Pressure Points: 1

If anyone has any other P&A they have scans for but I haven’t mentioned, feel free to bring them up.

 

[Amlad22]

My my this is a lot of stuff. I’ll need to come back to this when I have a bit more time to carefully read it all. Shouldn’t be too long.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Damn this is a nice one, also going to check and give my take as well.

 

[BakiHanma18]

@AkuAkuAkuma @EliminatorVenom @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Anttron224 @Tllmbrg @EmperorRorepme @Dark-Carioca
Notification for all supporters in case there’s anything anyone would like to say or if anyone else wants to participate

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Im busy this week so I'll come back to this in a few days or so

 

[LordGinSama]

Will comment later but this is basically 50/50 as for the legitimacy of the powers here.


Although I'd like to address that simply knowing how strong the opponent is, is not an example of Information Analysis. That's more akin to Extrasensory Perception, so for anything for Information Analysis using "strength sensing" should be switched to Extrasensory Perception and resistance to Extrasensory Perception.

 

[LordGinSama]

Retsu Kaioh
Acrobatics: 1

Yeah this one should be fine.

Analytical Prediction: 1 2 3

1: This isn't a case of active Analytical Prediction, I think it's more akin to Retsu knowing how Jyaku fights as opposed to predicting each and upcoming move. One could even argue this isn't even Prediction but rather Information Analysis.

2: This works I suppose but it's worth to note that Retsu knows Kasumi and isn't apart of the fight so this one isn't exactly bullet proof.

3: This is more akin to Enhanced Senses as opposed to Retsu predicting Toba's attacks before they can be launced, and quite good enhanced senses at that. Unfortunately fighting while blinded isn't attributed to precognition and or Analytical Prediction as that falls underneath senses.

Chi Manipulation: Jumei’s profile on Garouden wiki claims Retsu’s Sunkei is used via Chi, likely referring to the Chinese Fa Jin principle

I'd say a possible Chi Manipulation although Chi groups in Baki are left incredibly vague.

Extrasensory Perception: 1 2 3 4 5 6

These are also fine but 4-6 are just repeat scans.

Information Analysis: 1 2 3 4 5 6

1: No, this isn't Information Analysis but rather Extrasensory Perception in the form of power sensing.


2: Yes and no, Retsu observing his opponents footwork and their reach (One being something that's incredibly telegraphed while the other is a blatant physical observation.) but Retsu figuring out his weakness should work as long as you specify what part is the Information Analysis.

3: I don't really see anything that would give Retsu Information for this particular scan.

Instinctive Reaction: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

1: Yeah that's fine.


2: Yeah that's also fine but just make it clear his I.R cannot be utilized to it's fullest extent without getting serious.

3: Fine but he doesn't quite throw a punch so while he can act while unconscious he can't do much other than position himself and stand up.


4: Seems legit.

Limited Statistics Reduction (Reaction Speed): 1 2

Eh yeah very limited as in this wouldn't really work against anyone with significant levels of skill.

Stealth Mastery: 1

Sure.

Power Mimicry: 1

No, he didn't copy Baki's stance and Roll Kick immediately, his fought against Baki and has seen mutiple of his fights.

Che Guevara/Jun Guevaru
Enhanced Senses: 1

Looks good.

Natural Weaponry: used hair needles as weapons

Yeah sure.

Oliva Biscuit
Statistics Amplification: 1

Yeah mr "Advance Unchained."

Enhanced Senses: 1

looks good.

Statistics Reduction (Stamina): 1

Limited Statistics Reduction.

Genius Intelligence: (see his Intelligence section)

At best his intelligence level would grant him Gifted, not Genius.

Pickle
Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Looks good

Power Mimicry: 1

Limited Power Mimicry, he's only mastered the basics and it took him after the Shibu fight to actually get a good grasp of it.

Statistics Amplification: 1 2

Sure.

Sound Manipulation: 1

Looks good.

Resistance to Information Analysis: 1

Resistance to Extrasensory Perception in the form of Power Sensing. They can't gauge his power level, not that they can't analyze his attacks and attack patterns.

Information Analysis: 1

No Information Analysis here, he just felt much more force behind Jack's punch than Retsu's and Katsumi's.

A mention of Pickle’s unique physiology in both his abnormally thick and dense muscles and his skeletal structure resisting brain damage

I agree just make sure to shorten it.

Illusion Creation: 1

I suppose this works

Doppo Orochi
Stealth Mastery: 1

Sure.

Pressure Points/Acupuncture: 1 2 3 4 5

This all work aside from 3, scan 3 isn't an indication of Doppo attacking nerves and or weak points, just that anywhere he strikes with his nails can become a weak point due to them being sharp. A blade isn't the same as attacking pressure points.

Instinctive Reaction: 1 2

1: Yes but only a limited form since Doppo's body could only react after taking dozens of blows from Richard.

2: Same as above, while he was asleep he only reacted because of the high pitched sounds that Mosquitoes produce, you can still hear them while asleep which was the trigger of his reaction.

Status Effect Inducement: 1

Limited as the effects aren't very long.

Resistance to Analytical Prediction: 1

That's a caveat to Shibukawa's own prediction, Goki can't read attacks that don't have bloodlust and or killing intent, if the opponents doesn't have either one of those things then there isn't anything for him to base his prediction off of.

Extrasensory Perception: 1

looks good

Information Analysis: 1 2 3

1 & 3 are fine but the second scan isn't. That's just a general observation about Baki's injuries, which one wouldn't get from normal fighting and his unorthodox fighting style while is never seen in a public fighting tournament.

Resistance to Pain Manipulation: 1

Agreed.

Katsumi Orochi
Stealth Mastery: 1
Accelerated Development: 1 2

I can get behind this.

Kaku Kaioh
Stealth Mastery: 1 2 3
Statistics Amplification: 1

Agreed.

Yujiro Hanma
Fear Manipulation: 1 2 3 4 5

Looks good.

Resistance to Information Analysis: 1

I don't see the Resistance to Info Analysis here.

Status Effect Inducement: 1 2

Looks good.

Jack Hanma
Instinctive Reaction: 1 2

Fine with me.

Pressure Points: 1

No, all Jack is doing is blocking him from breathing by applying pressure to the throat.

Status Effect Inducement: 1 2 3

If bleeding can be considered as a status Effect then yeah sure.

Resistance to Poison Manipulation: 1

Sure.

Chiharu Shiba
Analytical Prediction: 1 2

None of this is Analytical Prediction, he's not predicting the outcome of an attack. He just knows the layout of Baki's house, not something you can really predict.

Baki Hanma
Resistance to Status Effect Inducement: 1 2

Sure.

Resistance to Analytical Prediction: 1 2

No Resistance feat is listed here, at best you could use the "more unpredictable than any sniper!" part but that's an obvious hyperbole.

Resistance to Attack Reflection/Ki Manipulation: 1

Baki can counter that but he still did get effected by Shibu in the start there. Not a Resistance but he can counter them.

Status Effect Inducement: 1
Fear Manipulation: 1 2 3
Resistance to Pain Manipulation: 1

These should be fine. I'll address the rest later since it's late here.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So Baki what was the more weird P&A that were left out?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Okay, so as for what we’ve covered so far, I’d just like to confirm that I have everything right and I’d like to bring up a few points of discussion.


Retsu

Acrobatics is okay

Possible Analytical Prediction via 2

Possible Chi Manip

Extrasensory Perception is okay

Information Analysis via figuring out the boxer’s weakness

Instinctive Reaction at full power is okay (but non combat applicable while unconscious)

Very Limited Stat Reduce is okay

Stealth Mastery is okay

Power Mimicry doesn’t work



Che

Enhanced Senses and Natural Weaponry are okay



Oliva

Stat amp is okay

Enhanced Senses is okay

Limited Statistics amp is okay

Genius Intelligence is too much



Pickle

Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception are okay

Limited Power Mimicry is okay

Stat amps is okay

Sound manip is okay

Resistance to Extrasensory Perception is okay

Short mention of Pickle’s unique anatomy

Illusion Creation is okay



Doppo

Stealth Mastery is okay

Pressure Points/Acupuncture is okay (save for scan 3)

Limited Instinctive Reaction is okay

Limited Status Effect Inducement is okay

Would Resistance to Extrasensory Perception via Bodhisattva Fist be okay?

Extrasensory Perception is okay

Information Analysis is okay (scans 1&3)

Resistance to Pain Manipulation is okay



Katsumi’s additions are okay



Kaku’s additions are okay



Yujiro

Fear Manipulation is okay

Would this be Resistance to Extrasensory Perception like Baki’s issue with Pickle but to a lesser degree (he can imagine Yujiro, but it isn’t accurate to his actual stats)

Status Effect Inducement is okay



Jack

Instinctive Reaction is okay

Pressure Points isn’t okay

iirc, Dark Souls and Darkest Dungeon consider bleed a status ailment, hence my thinking. If that’s fine, we can add that

Resistance to Poison Manipulation is okay



Chiharu

But Chiharu also accurately predicts what Baki is doing and where he is when he gets there, such as when he predicts Baki getting a drink or predicting that Baki is both at the door putting his shoes on and that he’s only half putting his shoes on, not taking the fight seriously



Baki

Resistance to Status Effect Inducement is okay

I don’t see how it’d be hyperbole considering nothing else he mentions is huperbole: Baki is sharper than any blade via scaling and feats alone, he scales to Musashi, who has a massively hypersonic or hypersonic feat, so Baki being faster than any bullet would be consistent as well, the impact of Baki’s hits far exceed anything an animal is capable of, and with the amount of times Baki has almost killed, permanently crippled, or badly injured an opponent, the “heinous” statement isn’t that unbelievable either. Baki being as unpredictable as a sniper is also consistent with the fact that Dr. Kureha, after analyzing his full offensive capabilities, couldn’t account for certain things like Baki’s swiftness, thus rendering his predictions and analysis moot. It also makes sense why Yujiro, who is seen multiple times throughout the series predicting entire fights ahead, isn’t seen predicting Baki’s attacks once during their fight

Resistance to Attack Reflection/Ki Manipulation is a no, but I’ll try to make note that he can counter them

Status Effect Inducement, Fear Manip, and resistance to pain are all okay

 

[BakiHanma18]

So Baki what was the more weird P&A that were left out?

One was limited/minor Subjective Reality, as Baki specifically outlines he is able to slices open his hand by imagining it right after said occurrence taking place (during the Retsu fight in the Maximum Tournament)

 

[Armorchompy]

@AkuAkuAkuma @EliminatorVenom @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Anttron224 @Tllmbrg @EmperorRorepme @Dark-Carioca
Notification for all supporters in case there’s anything anyone would like to say or if anyone else wants to participate

If you're not staff, doing this won't notify people.

 

[Amlad22]

I agree with everything Gin said in his first post. I also wouldn’t even bother giving Retsu limited stats reduction since it’s extremely limited and not always applicable.



Baki not being able to fully comprehend Yujiro‘s strength could be resistance to extrasensory perception for the big man.



Jack’s status effect can only be applied if bleeding is one.



Chiharu should just be enhanced senses from what I’m seeing.



I’d wait for more input on the issue of Baki’s resistance to analytical prediction. I personally am not for it but I want to know what others think.



Now onto the remaining scans.



Musashi’s resistance here is much more clear cut than Baki‘s. Agree to all his except for natural weaponry. I’m not sure if having super conditioned body parts qualify for that. It’s no different than Doppo or Ron Shobun being able to imitate a spear with their nukite attacks. If that still counts as natural weaponry though then by all means we can apply it.



Nomi’s scans look fine.



Filth is good.



Kureha doesn’t have a resistance to blindness there, he just knows how to fix it or counter it in a sense. Limited paralysis is good though.



Gallen isn’t accelerated development, he’s just so strong already that he can beat any professional athlete without the need for training. Acrobatics is good though.



Limited analytical prediction is fine for Shibukawa since Doppo showed how to counter it. Status effect inducement is also limited since he needs prep before hand. Everything else is good.



Everything else is good after this point.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Alright, everything has either been agreed on, disagreed on, and/or replaced, so I think we have a general consensus. I’ll wait until Oblivion get the chance to review everything and make his stance, though everything seems generally agreed upon so far.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I agree for the most part, though:

Disagree with status effect for Jack. Thats just him physically biting a vital spot where it causes blood to spring forth constantly. The same thing applies to Baki's cord cut

Doppo's status effect shouldnt be really limited as he can still use the "power" at will, so the time limit thing shouldnt matter much

Fear Manipulation: 1 2 3

Unsure about this, it looks more like intimidation (fearhax and intimidation are two different things). Though, it legit happened against the rats and when Baki was sleeping on the school during the beginning of the Four Convicts Arc, so it seems to only work against fodders, unless I missed some other feat.

Resistance to Analytical Prediction/Precognition: 1

That would be resistance to telepathy

Resistance to Poison Manipulation: 1

Shrugging off alcoholic effects would be resistance to biological manip last time I checked

Resistance to Status Effect Inducement: 1

If this is referring to cord cut, its not something that can be resisted since its a physical attack (unless he had invulnerability), plus bleeding its not exactly a status effect, though Kureha can indeed counter the technique, so there is that

Paralysis Inducement: 1

This is also dura neg

Information Analysis: 1

I dont see how this is Information Analysis

Status Effect Inducement: 1

This is limited as he requires outside equipment (water) to do it, and because that amount of water isnt something that he carries all times

Resistance to Pain Manipulation: 1

You should note that he achieves this via Body Control

Resistance to Analytical Prediction: 1 2

Dont really see how this is Analytical P.

--------------------------
Everything else that I didnt mention is because I agree with and/or was already addressed by Gin and Amlad

 

[BakiHanma18]

Alright, seems we’ve reached an agreement on everything for the most part, though I would like to mention a couple of points:

For Baki’s Status Effect Inducement, the effect induced would be blindness, as he can severe optical nerves and blind the opponent. If that still doesn’t work for SEI, I understand, but I felt I should clarify my intention there either way

For Richard’s RtPM, I’m surprised it would have anything to do with Bio Manip, as alcohol is literally poison and the amount he drank would kill or severely impair most anyone else

Edit: I just used a standard BAC calculator, and using 20 1.5oz liquors, which have a lower ABV than a martini (liquor is usually 40%, a martini is usually 55%), even after a minute, a 284lbs male (Richard Filth) would be at 0.36% BAC, with 0.4% being potentially lethal, and he not only was unaffected, but went on to fight evenly against Doppo.

and finally, for Baki’s Analytical P. resist, the fact that everything else Yujiro claims about Baki is literal, if he’s as unpredictable as a sniper, that should at least qualify as minor resistance to Analytical Prediction, as he is stated as literally being hard to predict, not to mention the source, with Yujiro being shown as capable of predicting entire fights ahead, as well as Shinogi Kureha, someone who can analyze someone’s complete offensive capabilities, being unable to predict Baki’s plan of attack (to Kureha’s shock and confusion) as early as before the Maximum Tournament.

As for everything else, if this is ample support (3 supporters and a staff member), then I’ll get to cracking on adding stuff as I can with real life permitting

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Nice, also I know this is the P&A but I do believe the 8-B+ calc can be up scale to 8-A of course being baseline

 

[BakiHanma18]

Bump

Any thoughts on my previously mentioned points?

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah the only issue I see with Baki's Resistance to AP is that I still see Yujiro's statements as hyperbole. Baki isn't sharper than any sword, and he certainly isn't heavier than any big beast. A Sniper isn't exactly "unpredictable" either, a Sniper's goal is to remain undetected and take the target out from a distance. It's stealth and the speed of the bullet fired from the rifle, which is what makes it "unpredictable."

 

[BakiHanma18]

Alright, if everything else is agreed upon, I’ll start chipping away at the additions tonight

 

[LordGinSama]

Baki also needs Instinctive Reaction, and it needs to specify that with it Baki can bypass Prediction that's mind reading based like Gaia's.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Baki also needs Instinctive Reaction, and it needs to specify that with it Baki can bypass Prediction that's mind reading based like Gaia's.

He has Instinctive Reaction, but I can add Resistance to Telepathy via Instinctive Reaction to his profile, just like how Musashi resists Gaia’s Telepathy (I’ve also gotta add Telepathy to Gaia, since he reads minds like Musashi does)

 

[BakiHanma18]

Final bump

If everyone is okay with what we’ve agreed upon, I start adding in three days (just to give everyone one more chance to discuss). If anyone would like a list of changes currently slated to go out as well, I can compile everyone’s thoughts/agreements too

 

[BakiHanma18]

Alright, if everyone is okay with this, this seems to be the consensus that I’ll be putting up tonight. If this is right, I’ll add it and this can be closed. If I’ve misrepresented anything or made any mistakes, I’ll edit the list and check again.


Retsu

• Acrobatics
• Information Analysis (analyzing Jyaku’s fighting style and combat habits, figured out a boxer’s weakness after one hit)
• Possible Analytical Prediction (Predicted Katsumi’s next move, though Retsu is extremely familiar with Katsumi’s style)
• Enhanced Senses (Fought Toba while blinded)
• Possible Chi Manipulation (via Sunkei’s Fa Jin)
• Extrasensory Perception
• Instinctive Reaction (can move while unconscious, but cannot fight)
• Stealth Mastery

Che Guevara

• Enhanced Senses
• Natural Weaponry

Oliva Biscuit

• Statistics Amplification
• Enhanced Senses
• minor Statistics Reduction (reduces an opponent’s stamina/vitality via his Pac-Man attack)

Pickle

• Enhanced Senses
• Extrasensory Perception
• minor Power Mimicry (copied the basics of Aiki, one of the most difficult to learn techniques in the verse, after seeing them once)
• Statistics Amplification
• Sound Manipulation
• Resistance to Extrasensory Perception
• “Unique Biology”
• minor Illusion Creation

Doppo Orochi

• Stealth Mastery
• Pressure Points
• Acupuncture
• Limited Instinctive Reaction
• Status Effect Inducement
• Resistance to Extrasensory Perception (via Bodhisattva Fist silencing his mind and bloodlust)
• Extrasensory Perception
• Information Analysis
• Resistance to Pain Manipulation

Katsumi Orochi

• Stealth Mastery
• Accelerated Development

Kaku Kaioh

• Stealth Mastery
• Statistics Amplification

Yujiro Hanma

• Fear Manipulation
• Resistance to Extrasensory Perception
• Status Effect Inducement

Jack Hanma

• Instinctive Reaction
• Resistance to Poison Manipulation

Chiharu Shiba

• Enhanced Senses

Baki Hanma

• Resistance to Status Effect Inducement (via Adrenaline Hemostasis)
• Status Effect Inducement (blinding/muscle restriction via Cord Cut)
• minor Fear Manipulation
• Resistance to Pain Manipulation
• Resistance to Telepathy (via Instinctive Reaction)

Miyamoto Musashi

• Resistance to Telepathy
• Resistance to Electricity Manipulation
• Aura

Nomi II

• Ki Manipulation
• Extrasensory Perception
• Information Analysis

Richard Filth

• Resistance to Poison Manipulation

Shinogi Kureha

• Paralysis Inducement

Alexander Gallen

• Acrobatics

Goki Shibukawa

• Analytical Prediction (via Extrasensory Perception)
• Pressure Points
• Paralysis Inducement
• Limited Status Effect Inducement (needs liquid to spit)
• Extrasensory Perception (predicts people’s attacks by sensing their intentions and bloodlust)

Gaia

• Limited Telepathy (It’s stated by Motobe during Musashi’s final fight with Baki that Musashi’s mind reading ability is the same as Gaia’s)

Kaiohs

• Surface Scaling
• Water Walking

 

[BakiHanma18]

Alright, everything seems to be in order, so I’ll get this done now

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

The baki verse needs more love

 

[Amlad22]

Changes look good!

 

[BakiHanma18]

BTW, Yujiro Hanma’s profile is locked, can someone unlock it so that I can add Fear Manip, Resist to EP, and SEI?