Grand Priest vs Cresselia

[DragonEmperor23]

or that Naruto is good, for example.

Oooh, that one was mean.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Is this accurate or is the profile just that outdated?

Its on smogon's website, she doesn't learn a single move that inflicts sleep but she can learn dream eater via TM (then again the moon goddess was built more for double battles then singles).

Anyway I'm voting Inco (for now) both can perceive each other's moves before using them.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Resistance to Gravity Manipulation doesnt make so it is impossible to lift your body.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Resistance to Gravity Manipulation doesnt make so it is impossible to lift your body.

You can't resist Gravity Manipulation, you can only adapt to it.

And the thing they are adpating to are the forces pushing against them - which is the same thing as TK.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yes, you can; Resistance to Gravity Manipulation is a thing, and it does not really make your body any harder to lift, so I really don't know why you're saying it does.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

>You can't resist gravity manipulation


Am I a joke to you?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

One argument you could make is that Grande Padre could overpower Cresselia's Lifting Strength, but they're both unknown, so we can't really tell if that would be possible or not.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yes, you can; Resistance to Gravity Manipulation is a thing, and it does not really make your body any harder to lift, so I really don't know why you're saying it does.

No, it isn't. It's adaption.

It's an adaption because the person doing the adapting can force him/herself through another force pushing against them, in gravity's case, pushing down on them. They aren't inherently immune to being lifted, but can force themselves out of it.

In the case of TK, pushing in whatever direction that TK users desires.


The literal only difference is that the force, gravity, is pushing down on the person adapting instread of away through TK.

 

[Warren_Valion]

One argument you could make is that Grande Padre could overpower Cresselia's Lifting Strength, but they're both unknown, so we can't really tell if that would be possible or not.

Dude, this IS the argument I am making.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Adaptation would be if it works at first, but the person adapts to gain resistance to it later, resistance is when it doesnt work at all. Also, resisting Gravity Manipulation doesn't really have much to do with Lifting Strength, it just has to do with, well, resisting an ability, so you cant really say the character has the power to break out of an ability just because they resist a completely different ability.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Dude, this IS the argument I am making.

No, it isn't, your argument is "he resists one ability, which means he also resists another completely different ability." If you argument was he can break out, you wouldn't have brought up gravity, you would just have said "he can break out", and even then his Lifting Strength is unknown.

 

[AguilaR101]

Telekinesis can be deduced into units of force and AP, it is nothing special since higher stats are enough to overcome it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

No, it isn't, your argument is "he resists one ability, which means he also resists another completely different ability.

No it is not.

My argument is that since Dragon Ball is a series where there are plenty of weaker characters than the GP can overcome an oppressive force through their own strength, that Grand Priest is likely able to do the same - except instead of the oppressive force being gravity, it is telekinesis.

In simplest terms, the GP would break out of Cress's TK.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

No it is not.

My argument is that since Dragon Ball is a series where there are plenty of weaker characters than the GP can overcome an oppressive force through their own strength, that Grand Priest is likely able to do the same - except instead of the oppressive force being gravity, it is telekinesis.

In simplest terms, the GP would break out of Cress's TK.

It is, you're just backtracking and changing what your point was because you realized your first argument made no sense.

Anyway: both Cresselia and Grande Padre have unknown Lifting Strength, so we can't really tell if it would be possible for him to break out or not.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Adaptation would be if it works at first, but the person adapts to gain resistance to it later, resistance is when it doesnt work at all. Also, resisting Gravity Manipulation doesn't really have much to do with Lifting Strength, it just has to do with, well, resisting an ability, so you cant really say the character has the power to break out of an ability just because they resist a completely different ability.

It isn't about superseding an ability, it's about conditioning the body to deal with the stronger forces of gravity pushing against you and living. Said process of conditioning is required, and is why it is an adaption, and not a resistance.

Do you give military pilots and racecar drivers "Resistance to Gravity Manipulation" because they have conditioned their bodies to experience higher Gs while moving at intense speeds? No, that's ridiculous.


And what are you talking about? Of course, being in a place with higher gravity means that you need greater lifting strength to survive.

The higher the gravity, the more something weighs - and if something weighs more, the more strength is needed to lift it. That's common sense.

Lifting a 25-pound dumbbell on Earth is a lot easier on the moon where the gravity is less intense, and thus the dumbbell weighs less.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Do you give military pilots and racecar drivers "Resistance to Gravity Manipulation" because they have conditioned their bodies to experience higher Gs while moving at intense speeds? No, that's ridiculous.

No, because Resistance to Gravity Mnipulation doesn't exist in real life. It does in fiction however, that's when the character is not affected by changes in gravity, may it be higher or lower. There's really nothing special about gravity, it can be resisted just like any other ability.

 

[Warren_Valion]

It is, you're just backtracking and changing what your point was because you realized your first argument made no sense.

Anyway: both Cresselia and Grande Padre have unknown Lifting Strength, so we can't really tell if it would be possible for him to break out or not.

What the **** are talking about?

I have been repeating myself for like fifteen minutes, going into more detail each time.

This is what I initially said:

"And why would the GP just let himself be affected by Telekinesis?

In a verse with gravity training, I am more aligned to believe the GP can just disregard Cresselia's telekinesis."

This is my current argument:

"My argument is that since Dragon Ball is a series where there are plenty of weaker characters than the GP can overcome an oppressive force through their own strength, that Grand Priest is likely able to do the same - except instead of the oppressive force being gravity, it is telekinesis.

In simplest terms, the GP would break out of Cress's TK."


These aren't different arguments Paulo, I don't know how you can consider them as such.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

"And why would the GP just let himself be affected by Telekinesis?

In a verse with gravity training, I am more aligned to believe the GP can just disregard Cresselia's telekinesis."

Disregard = ignore.

If he disregards something, this means he isn't affected by it at all (which would be resistance); your current argument is that he would be affected by it, but that he could overpower it. Being unaffected by something and breaking out of something are two different things.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

...every character that's offensively used TK in the series like that has succeeded in doing that though. Even when the opponent was stronger (Guldo vs Krillin and Gohan).

 

[Warren_Valion]

Disregard = ignore.

If he disregards something, this means he isn't affected by it at all (which would be resistance); your current argument is that he would be affected by it, but that he could overpower it. Being unaffected by something and breaking out of something are two different things.

Are you serious?

Do you know what the word disregard means?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

> Tries to disprove my point.

> Says the exact same thing I'm saying.

Just like you just showed in your comment, disregard means ignore. If he disregards something, this means he isn't affected by it at all, which would be resistance, because if he has to break out, this means he can't just ignore it, he has to consciously break out of it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Anyway, it's nearing midnight - I am going to bed.

 

[Warren_Valion]

> Tries to disprove my point.
> Says the exact same thing I'm saying.

Just like you just showed in your comment, disregard means ignore. If he disregards something, this means he isn't affected by it at all, which would be resistance, because if he has to break out, this means he can't just ignore it, he has to consciously break out of it.

I read that as "disregard =/= ignore", my apologizes. I'm tired and was about to head to bed, like I said.

Anyway, just because you ignore something, doesn't mean that something isn't affecting you. Where did you get that logic?

You ever have an itch that you ignore? Does that mean that the itch doesn't exist anymore because you are ignoring the desire to scratch it?

No, it doesn't - you just deal with it until the sensation goes away, or you give in and scratch it. You are still affected by said itch despite your efforts of ignoring it.


The same is with the higher forces of gravity, and with Cresselia's TK. The GP would be affected by the forces, but would be able to break out of them - or adapt to them.


Now, I am going to sleep.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

If he has to consiously move against Cresselia's TK (which is what breaking out means), this means he's not ignoring it.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

TK shouldn't matter if Grand Priest has a high AP advantage. DB characters are capable of projecting their power through their eyes, mouths, auras, etc. It's not far fetched to claim that GP could simply do the same. I'd also argue against him being unable to resist TK. Broly broke out of Goku's God Bind, albeit paralysis. No character, to memory, has used telekinesis on an opponent since Chiaotzu, it has always been paralysis techniques which are vaguely related to telekinesis techniques.

So rather than DB characters having feats of telekinesis working on much stronger characters, it's actually paralysis techniques.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Guldo and Frieza.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Honestly, we can't really tell if telekinesis would work or not, since both of them have their Lifting Strength at unknown (because nobody cares for lifting strength when making profiles).

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Guldo and Frieza.

Frieza doesn't use telekinesis on stronger opponents. He uses paralysis. I'd have to check Guldo but I gtg for the day so I'll leave that to someone else.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, its Telekinesis.

 

[The_Causality]

...every character that's offensively used TK in the series like that has succeeded in doing that though. Even when the opponent was stronger (Guldo vs Krillin and Gohan).

Guldo doesn't used telekinesis against Krillin and Gohan, he stop time. when they was stopped, he use TK to grp a"tree" and throw it at Krilin before getting killed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What? No, they weren't time stopped. They were clearly conscious when Guldo was gonna throw a tree at them.

 

[The_Causality]

What? No, they weren't time stopped. They were clearly conscious when Guldo was gonna throw a tree at them.

Indeed, my bad the

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Guldo can stop time, but thats not what he did against them. He only stops time when he holds his breath.