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(Grace) Low 7-C Tournament: Rock Lee vs Vilgax
- Thread starter KingEzran
- Start date
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Lee's AP?
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Low 7-C Lee's AP is >5.14546 KilotonsThe Calaca said:
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So he holds the AP game here. Vilgax is >3KT, IIRC.
He's also way more skilled while Vilgax is more experienced.
I think Vilgax's main problem would be Drunken Fist Lee and his unpredictable combat style. He'd have a lot of troubles dealing with such movement from someone stronger.
He also holds Lifting Strength so if he wants to use the Hidden Lotus Vilgax couldn't escape.
I'm voting Lee. Vilgax is a threat to those weaker than him.
He's also way more skilled while Vilgax is more experienced.
I think Vilgax's main problem would be Drunken Fist Lee and his unpredictable combat style. He'd have a lot of troubles dealing with such movement from someone stronger.
He also holds Lifting Strength so if he wants to use the Hidden Lotus Vilgax couldn't escape.
I'm voting Lee. Vilgax is a threat to those weaker than him.
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Lee FRA
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Lee FRA
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I doubt unpredictable combat style is a problem for Vilgax since he regularly faces Ben who is basically the definition of unpredictable combat style (with master control at least).
Vilgax can also amp himself using his Steroids so Rock might not have such a big AP advantage.
Fair point on lifting strenght but on the other hand what prevents Vilgax from throwing Lee into space, he doesn't exactly need anything that's on Lee's wrist.
Not voting yet tho.
Vilgax can also amp himself using his Steroids so Rock might not have such a big AP advantage.
Fair point on lifting strenght but on the other hand what prevents Vilgax from throwing Lee into space, he doesn't exactly need anything that's on Lee's wrist.
Not voting yet tho.
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Ben is unpredictable because his versatility. Lee's Drunken Fist is literally unpredictable when talking about fighting style. Vilgax wouldn't be able to read his movements even with his fighting experience and Lee has martial discipline over the octoman.
Lee's scaling to that in base, but if he feels pressured he'd use the Eight Gates to gain the advantage again. Considering both get strain damage from their amps, they wouldn't resort to that for too long. But if so, Lee would outlast anyway.
Has he ever done that in-character? Lee can use his bandages to trap Vilgax to prevent that.
Lee's scaling to that in base, but if he feels pressured he'd use the Eight Gates to gain the advantage again. Considering both get strain damage from their amps, they wouldn't resort to that for too long. But if so, Lee would outlast anyway.
Has he ever done that in-character? Lee can use his bandages to trap Vilgax to prevent that.
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He has punched Diamondhead to the moon in Omniverse while amped by Malware (granted he might have had some of Malware's character at that point as well) also what Vilgax does against opponents who are not Ben is mostly unknown but he is said to be responsible for the creation of a black hole somewhere so he is willing to play dirty and he is also known to have trained to survive in space for a few minutes (most likely so he would be in an advantage when fighting in areas with no oxygen) so stuff like this is on his mind.
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That's Omniverse Vilgax. This is OG series Vilgax. What he does to people years later doesn't affect him at this point.
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Character doesn't change that easily, sure AP and all do but given everything I mentioned he did prior to the OS, what he does in Omniverse is no surprise, so him doing it in the OS also isn't too far fetched. Heck Vilgax became obsessed with the Omnitrix in the 18th century, years before it was invented so he definitely doesn't change lol (except when the writers are retconning him).
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Between OG and OV there's a timeframe of 5-7 years. Vilgax has gone through a lot of things in the meantime.
You can't assume that the character would act the same way. The fact that he didn't do it to a less experienced and younger Ben proves my point.
You can't assume that the character would act the same way. The fact that he didn't do it to a less experienced and younger Ben proves my point.
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Euhm no cause he wants the Omnitrix and Ben has aliens that can breathe in space...
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OG Ben had no access to aliens like Jetray.
Launch the boy to space.
Outlast him there.
Wait for it.
Ben had no MC in the first clash with Vilgax. The watch was just going crazy.
Launch the boy to space.
Outlast him there.
Wait for it.
Ben had no MC in the first clash with Vilgax. The watch was just going crazy.
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Diamondhead can breathe into space tho, also why would he need to do that when he just stomped Ben on earth the first time and the second time he couldn't grab Ben and by the time he could they were fighting in the Null Void, oh and throwing Ben into space then would have pissed off Kevin.
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I'm talking about the first encounter, where Ben was successully dodging Vilgax. If Vilgax truly wanted to kill him he'd have thrown him into space from the beginning.
If OG Vilgax doesn't do that, he'd not do it here.
If OG Vilgax doesn't do that, he'd not do it here.
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Well 1) Vilgax not killing Ben is a good point, might have something to do with Omnitrix failsafe(s) or whatever. 2) Vilgax is willing to kill here so doesn't really matter does it?
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Failsafe wouldn't help him from suffocating unless proven otherwise. Vilgax also doesn't know about failsafe as he tried to cut Ben's arm despite of that.
It matters as long as is something he would do in-character. But it doesn't considering Lee holds skill and fighting style to prevent getting launched. And if Vilgax connects, Lee could grab him with the bandages to prevent it.
It matters as long as is something he would do in-character. But it doesn't considering Lee holds skill and fighting style to prevent getting launched. And if Vilgax connects, Lee could grab him with the bandages to prevent it.
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… Pretty sure recognizing the Big Bang and almost getting killed by Kevin in the OS, yet getting an instant recharge to prevent that + the Ultimatrix being able to simulate 1 million years of constant war for an entire species, despite being called inferior to the Omnitrix by Azmuth… is better than a failsafe preventing Ben from dieing in space, regardless my point is that Vilgax does not kill Ben for unknown reasons and him throwing him into space is basically extra work for him since he plans to only go for a K.O. for whatever reason anyways. He does not have that "problem" in this fight because he is willing to kill. Cutting off Ben's arm does not directly put Ben's life in danger as evidenced in Omniverse by Albedo mentioning he could rip off Ben's arm with Ultimate Spidermonkey. Vilgax also detransformed Ben by tapping the faceplate, something OS Ben could not do so Vilgax has a better understanding of the Omnitrix than Ben at this point.
Fair enough on the bandages, will look into that later.
Fair enough on the bandages, will look into that later.
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If he doesn't do that to Ben even when he knows he can't breath in space then it's a flawed assumption to claim he'd do it to Lee.
OV Vilgax did it. OG Vilgax didn't. OV would. OG wouldn't.
It's not in-character to do that and it's very unlikely he'd achieve it. Drop the subject.
OV Vilgax did it. OG Vilgax didn't. OV would. OG wouldn't.
It's not in-character to do that and it's very unlikely he'd achieve it. Drop the subject.
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Ben has Diamondhead to breathe in space and flying aliens to prevent him from ever getting into orbit, Lee has neither.
I already gave extra evidence for why OS Vilgax doing it wouldn't be that much of a stretch at all.
I discovered some new scaling which would put Upgrade at low 7-C for scaling to pre-OS Vilgax and thus would give OS Vilgax quite the scaling chain, but I'm already advocating for 7-A Vilgax anyways so rn seems like a bit too much work to revise everything just for this match.
How much does Lee use his bandage-incap?
I already gave extra evidence for why OS Vilgax doing it wouldn't be that much of a stretch at all.
I discovered some new scaling which would put Upgrade at low 7-C for scaling to pre-OS Vilgax and thus would give OS Vilgax quite the scaling chain, but I'm already advocating for 7-A Vilgax anyways so rn seems like a bit too much work to revise everything just for this match.
How much does Lee use his bandage-incap?
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Ben had no Master Control and Vilgax didn't send him into space. Until you can bring evidence of this for OG Vilgax, this point will not stand.
Lee actively uses the bandages to compensate the lack of range of his Taijutsu, to trap his enemies and capitalize that to connect more attacks.
Lee actively uses the bandages to compensate the lack of range of his Taijutsu, to trap his enemies and capitalize that to connect more attacks.
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I am going with Lee here.
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Gwen comments that the real Vilgax (takes place in a dream but that Gwen is being controlled by real Gwen) would only BFR Ben after obtaining the Omnitrix and Ben did not think Vilgax BFR'ing him is out of character.
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Will check later unless someone says if it's from OG.
But doesn't counter the bandage point.
But doesn't counter the bandage point.
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It's from Original Series yes
No it doesn't but I'm thinking Vilgax's experience + physiology (Lee is trained against humans) = Lee's skill + bandages
No it doesn't but I'm thinking Vilgax's experience + physiology (Lee is trained against humans) = Lee's skill + bandages
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Explain me how being in-character to BFR to space counter the counter argument for BFR. I'm intrigued.
IIRC, Vilgax's experience comes from stomping people and fighting Max. Has he ever had any fight where he struggled before the Tennyson family. Not really a great experience.
IIRC, Vilgax's experience comes from stomping people and fighting Max. Has he ever had any fight where he struggled before the Tennyson family. Not really a great experience.
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I assume you mean the bandages? I think Vilgax should be able to throw Lee before he uses his bandages as a defense and from what I've seen Lee doesn't permanently incap someone with his bandages.
SixSix decided not to pick a fight with Vilgax due to him most likely dying if he tried, despite being one of the best mercenaries in the galaxy. Vilgax is also described as the most dangerous being in the universe (which means he made quite the name for himself) by Azmuth but I'm guessing this is in AF.
SixSix decided not to pick a fight with Vilgax due to him most likely dying if he tried, despite being one of the best mercenaries in the galaxy. Vilgax is also described as the most dangerous being in the universe (which means he made quite the name for himself) by Azmuth but I'm guessing this is in AF.
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If Vilgax throws Lee he'll grab him regardless of that. Vilgax can't escape from someone with higher Lifting Strength.
None of that suggests skill but AP.
None of that suggests skill but AP.
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Lee Fra
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Gonna be going for the drunk kid FRA
