(GRACE) Flowey VS Undergrowth: Jungle LOVE

[Psychomaster35]

Also known as the battle for the 4th 8-A Non-Smurf match, as I saw good potential for Flowey being there, so why not put him up against another plant enemy than the ghost of plant life, Undergrowth?

Speed is equalized, both are 8-A, and the battle is in Amity Park. Both start 50 meters from each other.

Who wins?

Your Best Nightmare:

Ghost of Plant Life:

Worm: 7 (LordGriffin1000, Originlima, DaReaperMan, Peppersalt43, Mariogoods, C2 of Omegon, BlastX)

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Inconclusive... I think?

Flower doesn't seem to have any real way to defeat Undergrowth do to his higher statistics and ghost physiology (regeneration) but Undergrowth can't bypass Flowey's Save/Load trick since all of his abilities have time before they take effect. It looks like a stalemate unless I'm missing something?

 

[Comiphorous]

Inconclusive... I think?

Flower doesn't seem to have any real way to defeat Undergrowth do to his higher statistics and ghost physiology (regeneration) but Undergrowth can't bypass Flowey's Save/Load trick since all of his abilities have time before they take effect. It looks like a stalemate unless I'm missing something?

what stops flowey from just absorbing him?

 

[BlastX]

I guess Flowey eventually gives up because he can't beat Undergrowth no matter what he does so Undergrowth kills him one final time and Flowey doesn't come back.

 

[Comiphorous]

I guess Flowey eventually gives up because he can't beat Undergrowth no matter what he does so Undergrowth kills him one final time and Flowey doesn't come back.

he'd eventually try to absorb him before that. what stops flowey from absorbing him?

 

[BlastX]

Can he absorb Ghosts? I don't think he was able to absorb Napstablook in True Pacifist.

Also, it can backfire since Undergrowth can use his ectoplasmic energy to posses Flowey from the inside since it contains his consciousness...or he can mind control him.

 

[Comiphorous]

Can he absorb Ghosts? I don't think he was able to absorb Napstablook in True Pacifist.

He absorbed "every monster in the underground"

that would mean he absorbed napstablook, aswell as mad dummy, who are all ghosts

Also, it can backfire since Undergrowth can use his ectoplasmic energy to posses Flowey from the inside since it contains his consciousness...or he can mind control him.

from his profile, it looks like he'd have to e physically there, using his vines, which he wouldn't be there since he'd be absorbed.

but im no expert on danny phantom so maybe im missing something

 

[Psychomaster35]

Also, it can backfire since Undergrowth can use his ectoplasmic energy to posses Flowey from the inside since it contains his consciousness...or he can mind control him.

Just for the record, Undergrowth has not actually been shown possessing anyone throughout his appearances, and his vines have to physically get into contact with Flowey through getting them inside of him.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

from his profile, it looks like he'd have to e physically there, using his vines, which he wouldn't be there since he'd be absorbed.

but im no expert on danny phantom so maybe im missing something

You do realize that's a special method of mind control through the mind vine. Undergrowth like all ghosts have the ability to Overshadow which they activate when they enter another object. Undergrowth and all of his plants contain his will and consciousness. The moment Flowey tries to absorb him it will result in Undergrowth's consciousness and will to take over.

Just for the record, Undergrowth has not actually been shown possessing anyone throughout his appearances.

Of course he's never Overshadowed someone before because he has far easier methods of taking over other's that don't require his massive body to enter a small object. However he's not stupid enough to just stan their and let himself be absorbed without having his will and consciousness take over.

and his vines have to physically get into contact with Flowey through getting them inside of him.

No... only the Mind Vine required the need to target the brain through the back of the neck (or in Jack's case the ear). The one he used on Sam simply required physical contact and he infected her but they didn't need to get inside her body. These methods are all irrelevant if Flowey tries to absorb him because he'll be taking in Undergrowth's consciousness, will and ectoplasmic energy which results in Overshadow.

Undergrowth wouldn't just let him do it when he has the means to counter.

 

[Comiphorous]

Undergrowth like all ghosts have the ability to Overshadow which they activate when they enter another object. Undergrowth and all of his plants contain his will and consciousness. The moment Flowey tries to absorb him it will result in Undergrowth's consciousness and will to take over.

theres 6 other human souls there, which can kinda **** up the whole 'possessing consciousness' when there are 7 consciousnesses there.

Of course he's never Overshadowed someone before because he has far easier methods of taking over other's that don't require his massive body to enter a small object. However he's not stupid enough to just stan their and let himself be absorbed without having his will and consciousness take over.

what's he gonna do to stop it? he absorbed everyone in the underground by doing basically nothing except standing there.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

theres 6 other human souls there, which can kinda **** up the whole 'possessing consciousness' when there are 7 consciousnesses there.

That's irrelevant... unless those souls give him resistance to Possession/Mind Control, they won't get in Undergrowth's way especially when we've already seen more than one ghost can Overshadow the same target at a time so there being other consciousness inside Flowey is not an issue.

what's he gonna do to stop it? he absorbed everyone in the underground by doing basically nothing except standing there.

Once Flowey absorbs him, Undergrowth's will and consciousness will attempt to take over as his will/consciousness/energy is now within Flowey, which will lead to Overshadow. Undergrowth wouldn't just let himself get absorbed and just reside in Flowey without attempting to take him over, it wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Wouldn't Omega just instantly LOAD his files?

 

[BlastX]

What's that gonna change? Also if he gets overshadowed or mind controlled he can't do shit, since he needs to activate LOAD himself, right?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

What's that gonna change? Also if he gets overshadowed or mind controlled he can't do shit, since he needs to activate LOAD himself, right?

if Mind Control instant, so then likely LOAD can't work.
If not instant, Flowey just feel that he kinda feels not OK and easily LOAD back.
And if Flowey absorb it, character would simply lose all his will

 

[BlastX]

Undergrowth would just posses Flowey from the inside and still control him, especially cause Flowey has no Mind Manip resistance.

 

[Comiphorous]

Undergrowth would just posses Flowey from the inside and still control him, especially cause Flowey has no Mind Manip resistance.

you never even went through any of his questions.

is it instant? is it not instant?

what stops flowey from just destroying his will once he's absorbed? i dont see supernatural willpower on his page, so that'd negate everything you just said.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

if Mind Control instant, so then likely LOAD can't work.
If not instant, Flowey just feel that he kinda feels not OK and easily LOAD back.
And if Flowey absorb it, character would simply lose all his will

Overshadow happens the moment the target is entered. Time is only taken if the character has strong resistance otherwise it doesn't even take seconds. Where does it state on Flowey's page that those absorbed lose their will?

you never even went through any of his questions.

is it instant? is it not instant?

what stops flowey from just destroying his will once he's absorbed? i dont see supernatural willpower on his page, so that'd negate everything you just said.

It happens instantly, unless the character resists it doesn't take time. And again, where does it say he destroys the targets will upon absorption and how long does that process take? Is the will destroyed overtime or instantly?

 

[Comiphorous]

It happens instantly, unless the character resists it doesn't take time. And again, where does it say he destroys the targets will upon absorption and how long does that process take? Is the will destroyed overtime or instantly?

the souls didn't seem fond of him using them, which is probably where he's getting the whole 'suppressing their will'

Considering the game crashes when he takes the souls, and is already omega flowey when he pops in when you open up the game again, kinda iffy when he does.

that or he's making it up, which is possible, since i dont remember when he did that besides as asriel (which he'd theoretically become when absorbing them, where he has full control of the souls without issue)

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Overshadow happens the moment the target is entered. Time is only taken if the character has strong resistance otherwise it doesn't even take seconds. Where does it state on Flowey's page that those absorbed lose their will?

In Asriel fight there's stated "Lost Souls". They don't have such will or anything, they became Flowey's puppet. They can be free only if someone outside Asriel with determination save them

 

[FinePoint]

I guess Flowey eventually gives up because he can't beat Undergrowth no matter what he does so Undergrowth kills him one final time and Flowey doesn't come back.

This isn't allowed by SBA.

State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.
Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other.

If Flowey can stall forever with LOADing, then he will.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

In Asriel fight there's stated "Lost Souls". They don't have such will or anything, they became Flowey's puppet. They can be free only if someone outside Asriel with determination save them

Bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

In Asriel fight there's stated "Lost Souls". They don't have such will or anything, they became Flowey's puppet. They can be free only if someone outside Asriel with determination save them

This seems to be him controlling them once absorbed but given ghosts in DP have a natural resistance to being controlled and Undergrowth actively trying to take him over I don't see Undergrowth getting subdued.

Honestly this fight seems like a stalemate in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

This seems to be him controlling them once absorbed but given ghosts in DP have a natural resistance to being controlled and Undergrowth actively trying to take him over I don't see Undergrowth getting subdued.

As I remember, to ignore this move you need to have DETERMINATION or you will be just a puppet.

Honestly this fight seems like a stalemate in my opinion.

same

 

[DaReaperMan]

As I remember, to ignore this move you need to have DETERMINATION or you will be just a puppet.

Undyne has DETERMINATION and got controlled as well IIRC

 

[FinePoint]

Undyne has DETERMINATION and got controlled as well IIRC

Undyne does not normally have DETERMINATION, and the one time she did she melted from it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Undyne does not normally have DETERMINATION, and the one time she did she melted from it.

Yeah, she does. Just because the will to win when being beaten down makes Undyne's DETERMINATION increase to where it'll Amalgamatize her doesn't mean she doesn't have it normally

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Undyne has DETERMINATION and got controlled as well IIRC

I mean Frisk or Chara leveled DT

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean Frisk or Chara leveled DT

Yeah; there are monsters who have DT but they're few and far between

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Yeah, she does. Just because the will to win when being beaten down makes Undyne's DETERMINATION increase to where it'll Amalgamatize her doesn't mean she doesn't have it normally

DT doesn't work passively 100% everytime on Undyne.
Undying and Undyne neutral route death is two different moments.
If she has, why she died?)

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Yeah; there are monsters who have DT but they're few and far between

everything actually has DT, but I'm not sure and I'm Undertale theorysist. Don't bother

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Voting incon due I don't know WHAT will happen if Omega absorbs

 

[DaReaperMan]

DT doesn't work passively 100% everytime on Undyne.
Undying and Undyne neutral route death is two different moments.
If she has, why she died?)

She died because monsters tend to not take very well to any decent amount of DT, I don't know how we explain Undying but hey lol

Voting incon due I don't know WHAT will happen if Omega absorbs

Both are just incapped I assume, Incon FRA

 

[Deleted member 16409]

She died because monsters tend to not take very well to any decent amount of DT, I don't know how we explain Undying but hey lol

I mean, if DT is always on max then she would be Undying 24/7 and Frisk would be Universal+ 24/7
but it's not, it's work only in certain moment and needs some circumstances

Both are just incapped I assume, Incon FRA

same

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, if DT is always on max then she would be Undying 24/7 and Frisk would be Universal+ 24/7
but it's not, it's work only in certain moment and needs some circumstances

same

Obviously, she had her DT increase in both Neutral and Genocide, but we can't really explain the differences between the different instances

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I realized.. nah.
Revolting, voting Flowey.
Mind Control works only with vines

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Flowey would just burn vines or wipe them out with bombing.
Easily absorbs and kills him
In profile he doesn't resisting to Soul damage
Oneshot.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

To persist absorption in UT
You need to be SAVED by someone else.
And he became Asriel with another soul
So he became Universal+ after this match, gg

 

[Deleted member 16409]

To persist absorption in UT
You need to be SAVED by someone else.
And he became Asriel with another soul
So he became Universal+ after this match, gg

After becoming Uni+, he came just wipe his soul from timeline and gg

 

[DaReaperMan]

Flowey tends to **** around too much for his soul hax to one-shot immediately IIRC

Yes, this is because Soul Hax needs proof to one-shot, Flowey does have that proof, but he ***** around too much to use it immediately

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Flowey tends to **** around too much for his soul hax to one-shot immediately IIRC

Yes, this is because Soul Hax needs proof to one-shot, Flowey does have that proof, but he ***** around too much to use it immediately

And... He has NO SOUL resistance, so he would die pretty fast. Speed equal and how I remember, Flowery uses AOT, this will destroy wines and no mind hax used. Is very likely for Omega to win