(Grace) Base Jiren vs End Game Morgana (Persona)

[KingEzran]

Let's get into the details of this versus thread.

-Speed Equalized

-Both in Character

-Location: Planet Namek

-Range: 2.5 meters

-Win via death

Votes:

Jiren: 8

Morgana: 1

 

[Solacis]

The two are comparable in AP and Durability, potentially in Morgana's favor since he tanked serious attacks from GoC Yaldabaoth, who's massively above baseline Low 2-C. Morgana and Jiren then whittle each other down, but Morgana can instantly heal himself back to full health with Diarahan at any time, so Jiren will go down first.

Voting Morgana.

 

[Tonygameman]

Morgana for Solacis' reasons above.

 

[Akreious]

The two are comparable in AP and Durability, potentially in Morgana's favor since he tanked serious attacks from GoC Yaldabaoth, who's massively above baseline Low 2-C. Morgana and Jiren then whittle each other down, but Morgana can instantly heal himself back to full health with Diarahan at any time, so Jiren will go down first.
Voting Morgana.

Where are you getting the two are comparable in AP?

Yaldabaoth (God of Control) > Morgana > Phantom Thieves > Holy Grail (Seemingly Baseline)

Things of Note: God of Control stomps Phantom Thieves, Phantom Thieves as a collective managed to defeat Holy Grail Yaldabaoth (So individually, they're not as powerful as Holy Grail Yaldabaoth) and Morgana assisted in Yaldabaoth (God of Control)'s defeat; he's not 100% as powerful as Yaldabaoth. Scales yes, but not as powerful (or else he'd just... do it himself).

Jiren meanwhile has a significantly larger scaling chain than Morgana.

Jiren (100%) >= 3rd UIO Goku (Initially) > Hint of True Power Jiren > GoD Toppo > SSBE Vegeta >= SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku > Casual Jiren > 1st UIO Goku > Infinite Zamasu (Baseline)

Things of Note: Jiren at 100% stomps himself when he is only showing a hint of his true power (duh), Hint of True Power Jiren with one attack caused SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku to crap himself with only a moment of that level of power's use (And also stomped Goku with it no difficulty), SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku was powerful enough to make Jiren think he could use a hint of his true power while first UI Goku barely got Jiren to flare his aura.

All things considered, Jiren seems to have an AP advantage ranging from "only" superior to a lot stronger than Morgana.

 

[Solacis]

GoC Yaldabaoth >>> Phantom Thieves > Holy Grail Yaldabaoth >>> Baseline Low 2-C

The only reason HG Yaldabaoth isn't considered flat-out 2-C is because the cognitive universe doesn't technically count as a full 4-dimensional space of its own. The PTs including Morgana repeatedly tanked attacks massively above baseline Low 2-C, as well as each being capable of dealing significant damage to GoC Yaldy.

 

[Akreious]

An "At least" doesn't come from large scaling chains. The "At least" implies that under some interpretations, the AP could be higher (Possibility of them being 2-C being a thing). It means nothing in a battle against other Low 2-Cs.

Yes I know Morgana and the other PTs tanked serious attacks from GoC, but that's not enough. Jiren has a larger scaling chain with 2 more "Stomps X character" than GoC and therefore Morgana.

Jiren in his casual state was said to be in a completely different league than Infinite Zamasu (Baseline), UI Goku forced him to use more and more power until the last strike where his aura finally showed up.

Then SSBE Vegeta and SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku pressured Jiren way more than Goku ever did when he was when he was in his first UI Transformation and Jiren showed a glimpse of his true power and Goku immediately went to base form due to how much force just shot past him then. And Jiren then proceeded to pound some Saiyan puss into the ground.

Then Goku went Ultra Instinct a third time, becoming massively stronger than he was before ever, and Jiren still whooped him around for awhile before Goku had some "POWAH OF FRIENDSHIP" pep talk and powered up to matching Jiren before he mastered Ultra Instinct where he finally had enough power to stomp 100% Jiren.

 

[Solacis]

I edited my reply, but just to reiterate, GoC Yaldy is >>> Phantom Thieves > HG Yaldy >>> Baseline

HG Yaldy effortlessly fused the cognitive universe with the real one. The cognitive universe is of equal size as the physical one since they are aspects of each other. Holy Grail Yaldy is effortlessly above baseline and is bordering on Multiversal himself. The reason GoC Yaldy is "At least Low 2-C" is because he's so massively above baseline yet doesn't technically qualify for flat-out 2-C.

HG Yaldy stomps baseline Low 2-C, and GoC Yaldy stomps HG Yaldy. The PTs took on GoC Yaldy and managed to not only tank his strongest attack multiple times, but also deal significant damage to him.

That's why I say Morgana and Jiren are comparable in AP. They have relatively similar scaling chains. Regardless, unless Jiren is one-shotting Morgana, the latter would still win because of his (and I can't believe I'm calling it this) Healhax.

 

[KingEzran]

bump

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

At least doesn't mean massively superior to something, it means that the character is question has shown the current feats as something casual or done easily and that his full power could be higher than that.

By scaling chain I'm pretty sure Jiren has some good advantage.

 

[Solacis]

Good advantage or not, unless Jiren one- or two-shots, Morgana wins via Diarahan spam letting him easily outlast Jiren's stamina.

 

[JackJoyce]

Let's say both have equal AP. Morgana can use Masukunda which Jiren can deal with better AOE, invisible eye blast, danmaku, energy barrier etc. If Jiren can connect a few Power impacts he might win this

 

[Solacis]

Once again... Diarahan.

Diarahan restores Morgana to full HP with every cast, instantly. Masukunda was never an argument.

 

[KingEzran]

Let's say both have equal AP. Morgana can use Masukunda which Jiren can deal with better AOE, invisible eye blast, danmaku, energy barrier etc. If Jiren can connect a few Power impacts he might win this

Vote Jiren?

 

[JackJoyce]

Once again... Diarahan.

Diarahan restores Morgana to full HP with every cast, instantly. Masukunda was never an argument.

I mean does it works when he's knocked out cold?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He has to be conscious to use it, at least in the main games, **** me of I know something about persona.

 

[Solacis]

It took attacks way stronger than Jiren's stuff to knock out Morgana.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Pretty sure that Jiren has a way bigger scaling chain to deal with this thing faster and more easily than whatever the verse had.

 

[Solacis]

"Pretty sure" is worthless, especially from someone that claims not to know anything about Persona.

HG Yaldy is bordering on multiversal, easily defeated several other high-end Low 2-Cs (Lavenza and Igor), and as the administrator of the Collective Unconscious, is comparable to Nyarlathotep. HG Yaldy is massively weaker than God of Control Yaldy, which is what Morgana and the other PTs scale to. The only reason they couldn't kill him was because Yaldy had effectively limitless stamina and Type 8 immortality.

 

[JackJoyce]

To put this in perspective Jiren could knock out UIO3 Goku with a power impact who was at least 50x above baseline. Also dealing with his Danmaku would be quite difficult if not impossible for Morgana since he doesn't have barriers, instinctive reaction or energy absorption/manipulation. I vote for Jiren

 

[Akreious]

"HG Yaldy is bordering on multiversal"

Okay. Objectively wrong, but okay.

"easily defeated several other high-end Low 2-Cs (Lavenza and Igor)"

Doesn't qualify one to become Multiversal. Jiren lolstomps UIO Goku and Infinite Zamasu no difficulty but that doesn't make him 2-C.

" and as the administrator of the Collective Unconscious, is comparable to Nyarlathotep"

Nyar is baseline Low 2-C. Comparable to Infinite Zamasu, the lowest person in the DB Low 2-C Chain.

"HG Yaldy is massively weaker than God of Control Yaldy"

Relevance?

"which is what Morgana and the other PTs scale to."

I already established Jiren already has this but even larger.

"The only reason they couldn't kill him was because Yaldy had effectively limitless stamina and Type 8 immortality."

This doesn't change my mind at all.

 

[Solacis]

Yeah I'm convinced. Jiren wins with high diff.

 

[KingEzran]

"HG Yaldy is bordering on multiversal"

Okay. Objectively wrong, but okay.

"easily defeated several other high-end Low 2-Cs (Lavenza and Igor)"

Doesn't qualify one to become Multiversal. Jiren lolstomps UIO Goku and Infinite Zamasu no difficulty but that doesn't make him 2-C.

" and as the administrator of the Collective Unconscious, is comparable to Nyarlathotep"

Nyar is baseline Low 2-C. Comparable to Infinite Zamasu, the lowest person in the DB Low 2-C Chain.

"HG Yaldy is massively weaker than God of Control Yaldy"

Relevance?

"which is what Morgana and the other PTs scale to."

I already established Jiren already has this but even larger.

"The only reason they couldn't kill him was because Yaldy had effectively limitless stamina and Type 8 immortality."

This doesn't change my mind at all.

Vote Jiren?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Jiren FRA.

 

[KingEzran]

bump

 

[KingEzran]

bump

 

[GigaSPX]

I haven't played P5 in a while, but what does Morgana have that can stop Jiren's glare? Wouldn't his attacks all be considered Almighty in a way? lol

 

[Solacis]

Hell no. Almighty is resistance negation. Not that it matters, since Morgana doesn't resist any of Jiren's standard attacks.

 

[GigaSPX]

So Jiren's Glare winning is my vote.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Jiren FRA I guess

 

[Ionliosite]

Jiren FRA

 

[KingEzran]

bump

 

[KingEzran]

bump

 

[Straika]

Jiren for reasons above

 

[ProudLearner]

Jiren FRA

 

[LaGoneCarat]

can somebody please add this already?