goku low 2-c question

[Maverick_Zero_X]

 

[Stefano4444]

I really start to get tired of this constant Tier 2 debate for DBS, if Tier 2 for DBS has really so many issues as everybody say then we should just downgrade the verse to 3-A and be done it, i'm especially ******* tired with the hypocrisy which its Beerus and Champa vs Goku and Beerus.

Look people, if Beerus and Champa's feat its 2-C because the both Universes 7th and 8th have their own separated space-time, then by default Goku and Beerus's feat has to be consider Low 2-C since Universe 7th had its own separated space-time (which was going to be destroy too), if one feat isn't Tier 2 then neither is the other.

Because universal space time being involved means that you are not only destroying the universe. You are destroying the past, present and future

Wasn't agreed that this criteria its no longer an obligatory requirement to be Low 2-C?

Pog champ Bulma Brief

The Living World having a center don't necessarely reject the possibility for Universe 7th be infinite.

New Earth work in the same way, supposedly be infinite while having Planet Oa at the center of it.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

edge

 

[Roun12]

Fact: The ratings for Super will never change (upgrade or downgrade wise) until Toei decides to give us more information on the cosmology.

 

[AKM sama]

Do we assume light can travel between low 2-C structures now? Can we give OG DB Goku immeasurable speed or dimensional travel now?

Not sure why this is an issue. We are talking about a reality warping dragon here. He restored all the universes with his powers, so his "light/power" being visible is nothing noteworthy.

Wasn't agreed that this criteria its no longer an obligatory requirement to be Low 2-C?

No. Do you have a link to this thread you speak of?

If you can affect all snapshots within the span of a single millisecond second, then you are still affecting an infinite amount
So how is that not qualifying for high 3-A?

I don't understand this question.

 

[Stefano4444]

No. Do you have a link to this thread you speak of?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/universe-level-crt.119948/

Or at least many agreed that destroy past, present and future at the same time shouldn't be obligatory to be Tier 2.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If time is a continuum measured via the set of real numbers, then the interval [0, 1] has uncountably infinite snapshots as [0, 1] bijects to R iirc.

assuming I am correct, the occupying 1 second of time would be low 2-C.

the standards, however, include the WHOLE timeline. IZ can arbitrarily be put at high 3-A for partial timeline merging, there’s no basis for that.

it’s low 2-C or just 4D HDE with up scaled 3-A AP.

What

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Not sure why this is an issue. We are talking about a reality warping dragon here. He restored all the universes with his powers, so his "light/power" being visible is nothing noteworthy.


No. Do you have a link to this thread you speak of?


I don't understand this question.

Ok so basically there are an infinite amount of snapshots between second one and second two
To destroy a finite object (A) in every one of those snapshots would mean you are high 3-A because A times infinity would be infinity
But if the object destroyed is infinite durability then infinity infinity times would be “infinity squared” which results in low 2-C, right?
So zamasu only affected a finite amount of space in the past, which would mean he’s infinite 3D as seen in the show, but would eventually become 4D, which would still be weaker than zeno and super shenron
this is more of a question than a claim tho, I’m just figuring out how the tiering works

 

[AKM sama]

Or at least many agreed that destroy past, present and future at the same time shouldn't be obligatory to be Tier 2.

I believe you misunderstood it. As far as I remember, the conclusion of that thread was that our standards have always been that way- that you need to destroy all of time (past, present and future) to be Low 2-C because duh, that's what destroying spacetime means. It was just not being enforced properly and people were being too lenient with it. It was never agreed to change our standards on that thread.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yes, which is 3-A power.


Yes, a pocket dimension, meaning a limited amount of detached spacetime continuum, which means unquantifiable power.


No, because the former is 3-A and the latter is unquantifiable. It just means Goku has 3-A power with a limited amount of 4-D power.


No. Beerus and Champa's feat is 2-C because they were destroying 2 universe-sized spacetime continuums. Which means 2 universes worth of 4-D power.

We only assume spacetime is involved on a universal scale when 2 or more universes get destroyed. We don't assume spacetime is involved on a universal scale when only a pocket dimension is destroyed along with the universe.

Why is the ROSAT being a pocket dimension or non universe sized make it not qualify for the same logic as beerus and champ's feat? And why is the standard assumption that destroying 2 universes is automatically 2-C and not 3-A?
I guess you already know this, but wouldn't be weird if Goku and beerus' attack can destroy a space time (which means it needs a degree of 4-D power) but that same attack is not assumed to affect the space time of the universe that they were in when it was going to be destroyed? I find it ridiculous that the attack selectively has 4D power only when it's attacking the ROSAT but not the universe's space time which was stated it's gonna be annihilated.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Why is the ROSAT being a pocket dimension or non universe sized make it not qualify for the same logic as beerus and champ's feat? And why is the standard assumption that destroying 2 universes is automatically 2-C and not 3-A?
I guess you already know this, but wouldn't be weird if Goku and beerus' attack can destroy a space time (which means it needs a degree of 4-D power) but that same attack is not assumed to affect the space time of the universe that they were in when it was going to be destroyed? I find it ridiculous that the attack selectively has 4D power only when it's attacking the ROSAT but not the universe's space time which was stated it's gonna be annihilated.

No proof that it affected universal space-time = no Low 2-C

Simple as that, mate.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No proof that it affected universal space-time = no Low 2-C

Simple as that, mate.

That's what I'm trying to prove with the room.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

let's just remember the key facts here
the rosat is considered part of the universe, and yet, it is in another spacetime or whatever
if you are able to attack strong enough for the attacks to reach it, despite said attacks taking place in ANOTHER TIMESPACE, then your abilities should be 4th dimensional at least according to the wiki's logic
size doesn't matter here, size is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% relevant here because all that matters is the fact that it exists outside of the time of the universe

 

[Stefano4444]

No proof that it affected universal space-time = no Low 2-C

Problem its that Beerus and Champa's feat be considered 2-C means by default Goku and Beerus's feat had to be Low 2-C.

The former feat its only Tier 2 due if we accept that both Universes 7th and 8th possess their own distinct space-time.

And due of this Universe 7th would had to be consider a true 4D structure, it means that destroy it would requid Low 2-C level of power.

This its also back up by the fact that separated realms such as Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm were going to be destroyed too.

Which shouldn't be possible since 3D explosion happening in the Living World should only affect the Living World itself.

This also without mention that the ROSAT was going to be destroyed too.

Having Goku and Beerus's clash at only 3-A can only be possible if Universe 7th isn't a 4D structure, same for all other universes.

Which means that Beerus and Champa's feat cannot be consider Tier 2.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Beerus and Champa's feat is considered Tier 2 because it would affect multiple universal space-time continua, whereas Goku’s clash with Beerus had no such specification.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Beerus and Champa's feat is considered Tier 2 because it would affect multiple universal space-time continua, whereas Goku’s clash with Beerus had no such specification.

Goku and beerus were gonna destroy the ROSAT which is a universal space time continuum along with the rest of universe 7.

 

[Urshani]

Goku and beerus were gonna destroy the ROSAT which is a universal space time continuum along with the rest of universe 7.

it doesn't fit our standards, make a crt

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Goku and beerus were gonna destroy the ROSAT which is a universal space time continuum along with the rest of universe 7.

It isn’t.

 

[Stefano4444]

Beerus and Champa's feat is considered Tier 2 because it would affect multiple universal space-time continua, whereas Goku’s clash with Beerus had no such specification.

Except the Universe 7th itself its a universal space-time continuum (or multiple ones if you count Living World and Afterlife as two fully separated universal size realms), same with Universe 8th which its where the justification for Beerus and Champa's combined 2-C feat come from.

If Goku and Beerus's universe destruction cannot be consider Tier 2, then why the hell the same isn't apply to Beerus and Champa's case? And its not like Whis and Vados did specifically say that that fight was going to affect space-time too, its just don't make sense.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

You need a specific statement confirming both space and time would be destroyed, or it’s 3-A. For Beerus and Champa it’d assumed their destruction would affect space-time because they’d be destroying multiple universes.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You need a specific statement confirming both space and time would be destroyed, or it’s 3-A. For Beerus and Champa it’d assumed their destruction would affect space-time because they’d be destroying multiple universes.

aren't the heaven and hell realms in the same boat as the universes? If not, then the rosat still is. Size still does not matter here

 

[Stefano4444]

You need a specific statement confirming both space and time would be destroyed, or it’s 3-A. For Beerus and Champa it’d assumed their destruction would affect space-time because they’d be destroying multiple universes.

And what about the Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm? One its a universal size realm that exist in a different dimension while the Kaioshin Realm its fully separated.

An 3-A explosion within the Living World should not be capable to affect let alone destroy neither the Afterlife or the Kaioshin Realm, especially in the latter case.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Heaven, Hell and the Kaioshin Ream share the same space-time with the universe.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

[insert "the concept of time does not exist in the heavens" statement]

 

[ZillertheBucko]

[insert "the concept of time does not exist in the heavens" statement]

wait
if that exists then
why wouldn't it be valid?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It isn’t.

my bad, it's not universal.

 

[Stefano4444]

Heaven, Hell and the Kaioshin Ream share the same space-time with the universe.

That would means that Living World and Afterlife physically interact with each other, which its not the case as you cannot reach the Afterlife from the Living World with conventional means such as spaceflight, and you only reach it with special vehicles or unique travel techniques, this is even more true when it come to the Kaioshin Realm as its orbit far away from the macroverse (Living World + Afterlife) in his own realm.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Guys, guys

You're treading into cosmology revisions territory. I would stop that if I were you. ovo

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Guys, guys

You're treading into cosmology revisions territory. I would stop that if I were you. ovo

Technically maybe the cosmology revision would be perfectly fine
but this is above my pay grade so idk

 

[mal]

Which still isnt low 2-C, he dies before it

n they still need zeno to defeat him. that mean ssg shouldnt be low 2c by any mean no?