Goku Black's SSJ form

[TheRustyOne]

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/810186407813619712

In this tweet herms translate a note from Toriyama that says "Black WILL have SSJ like Goku and a Different SSJ that's a different color." We never see Black use SSJ in the anime but it was shown off in the manga. The different color SSJ is obviously SSR.

This doesn't go against anything seen in the anime as Black had no reason to use SSJ. Trunks says that Black did use SSJ when fighting him but he stopped because Black had gotten stronger then Trunks in his base form without the need of SSJ because of his Reactive Evolution.

Black was also holding back during his first fight with Goku. When they went to the future Black had his different SSJ form aka Rose so he had no use for regular SSJ.

So should Black have a SSJ form on his profile or not? It was shown in the manga yet Akira's notes says he can go yellow hair SSJ.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Sorry if I come off as rude or mean. I'm just letting people know about this information, if Black SSJ form is not important enough to add I understand completely and will drop this.

 

[Antoniofer]

In case that we allow the key, what would be the actual stat? matching SSJ2 Vegeta and not dying against SSB sound messy acording with the actual scaling.

 

[TheRustyOne]

It would look like this if we except the key.

4-B | 4-B | 4-B | 3-A | 3-A | 3-A

Key: Present Zamasu | Before Replicating Goku's Style (Base) | Super Saiyan Form | After Replicating Goku's Style (Base) | Super Saiyan Form | Super Saiyan Rosé

It was stated Black's full power equal SSJ3 Goku so it could be assumed his Base form equals SSJ2 Goku as they battled evenly and his SSJ form equals to SSJ3 Goku

 

[The_Everlasting]

Pretty sure we can't use this since it was only featured in the manga.

 

[Sethisbest]

If base = SSJ2

How can SSJ1 be SSJ3

When SSJ1 x50 base while SSJ3 is x4 SSJ2

 

[Promestein]

Well, don't we accept the manga as a secondary canon? It's not like it's really important though

 

[TheRustyOne]

Pretty sure we can't use this since it was only featured in the manga.

Sorry if I sound rude but in the link I provided was a tweet from Herms where he translated Goku Black's character design notes that Akira Toriyama wrote.

Akira Toriyama said Black does indeed have SSJ and a different SSJ form aka Rose. I used the manga as a example of him possessing it and explained how him having SSJ doesn't contridict contradict anything.

In the anime Black never used SSJ but Akira said he is capable of transforming into it.

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, don't we accept the manga as a secondary canon? It's not like it's really important though

I would use it for cover holes in the main canon as long don't contradict anything

 

[TheRustyOne]

If base = SSJ2
How can SSJ1 be SSJ3

When SSJ1 x50 base while SSJ3 is x4 SSJ2

I thought we didn't use SSJ multipliers or was it just for speed only?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Here is the tweet if anyone missed it.

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/810186407813619712

 

[The_Everlasting]

Sorry if I sound rude but in the link I provided was a tweet from Herms where he translated Goku Black's character design notes that Akira Toriyama wrote.

Akira Toriyama said Black does indeed have SSJ and a different SSJ form aka Rose. I used the manga as a example of him possessing it and explained how him having SSJ doesn't contridict contradict anything.

In the anime Black never used SSJ but Akira said he is capable of transforming into it.

I mean... Super Saiyan Rose is Black's version of Super Saiyan...

 

[The_Everlasting]

Well, don't we accept the manga as a secondary canon? It's not like it's really important though

Honestly, the DBS manga kinda destroys the plot of the Future Trunks Saga.

It has Zamasu fight Kibito instead of Goku in their spar, when his fight with Goku was the entire reason he grew to see mortals as dangerous and began his quest for their destruction.

 

[Antoniofer]

Not sure about that, I mean, SSB was supposed to be SSJ after god ki, and still they can convert in SSJ and SSB; this could be the case with Black too, but I would prefer to the next chapter to air, is even possible that SSR doesn't appears in manga, though I doubt it.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No it's not his version of SSJ but it is a little confusing.

Akira said in his notes and I quote. "Black has a regular SSJ form like Goku and a different version SSJ form with a different color."

Herms admitted he missed this when he translated this note.

Black's Rose form is not SSB or the regular SSJ it's his special exclusive SSJ form that Akira called a different version SSJ. (He never gave out a color so likely the anime made it pink)

So Black has two transformations regular SSJ like Goku and his own SSJ a different SSJ. (SSR)

 

[The_Everlasting]

Well, Vegeta does mention that Black was more dangerous because he knew Super Saiyan, though maybe they were just referring to the general transformation line and not actually SSJ.

 

[Antoniofer]

To be fair, anime has some holes too, never undestood why he was bad when Goku never fought him and then steal his body, and I wonder what happened to that Earth, I'm guessing that he go away and then blow it.

 

[The_Everlasting]

To be fair, anime has some holes too, never undestood why he was bad when Goku never fought him and then steal his body, and I wonder what happened to that Earth, I'm guessing that he go away and then blow it.

The Zamasu that became Goku Black is the one from the present before Beerus retconned it by killing Zamasu.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, but with what I saw, doesn't seems like Goku nor Zamasu (Black) meet in person before the body shift, considering that Goku didn't identified him, that still being confusing...

But back to topic, the problem with the profile is their stats, and a minor one is that there's no pic of him considering that manga hasn't aired officially, at least I miss something.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Two things

First how can Goku identify himself being in Zamasu body without a mirror. All he could see was that his skin was green.

Second there is a picture of SSJ Goku Black and here it is. Sorry it's Black and White but I did see a colored version somewhere but I'll have to find it.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, as long the stats in the profile are justificable, I have no problem with a key for Black SSJ; not sure why we consider manga and anime that different anyway, both are adaptations from Toriyama script, I will prefer a composite but I think people will disagree.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehh... that pic seems terrible... in any case, better to use the first you posted but rendered, beteer to wait for more staff if they agreed with this new Key

 

[TheRustyOne]

Sure.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

well this actually conterdics a announcement that said blacks ssr was the same as ss when it comes to Power ups.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, Poinciana already showed evidence of Toriyama saying about the another SSJ form, so this is contradicting himself or a retcon, wouldn't contradict any in-universe feat; other thing, is this a SSJ or SSJ2 form? seems pretty similar to the Vegeta's form...

 

[RadicalMrR]

Its just SSJ since it looks like Goku's SSJ, wonder if he'll show other forms though.

 

[Antoniofer]

At least one more form, most likely the last one, it has been foreshadowed in the manga, translated chapter already aired if want to known more details.

 

[Scot_Rosenfeld2]

so what would blacks final form be in the manga and will it be stronger than his super saiyan rose form in the anime and if its something like super saiyan blue wouldnt that effect fusion zamasus stats too

 

[Antoniofer]

If he will be stronger than Rose or Rose will be stronger is relative, there's no reference anyway, most likely doesn't happen anything notable so shouldn't change the stats.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

So will someone add a new key to goku black's page

 

[Antvasima]

What key would that be?

 

[Aldahshan93161]

What key would that be?

The key of goku black as a super saiyan

 

[TheRustyOne]

Wouldn't more people have to agree first? I'm think only Antoniofer has agreed for a SSJ key.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that is a good idea. We have not seen it in the anime, which is what we base the statistics on.

 

[TheRustyOne]

That's fine, really I just wanted people to know that Akira had given Black a normal SSJ form that the anime never showed.

If you think it's doesn't matter than that's fine by me, just wanted to get the information out there.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Since this topic seems to have been dealt with, I will close this thread.