Gojo Satoru should be much higher (full exp)

[Joshuakh]

tl;dr Gojo is 6C, and if you are a mod please read this and edit the Gojo page.

Gojo's infinity makes him very strong - and this can be calculated.

Gojo's limitless is able to proportionately slow down things that are nearing him. This means that every time an object halves its distance to Gojo its speed also halves (or if you want to talk in relativistic terms the distance increases by a factor of 2 from the perspective of the attacker). Therefore, even though it takes the same time period to travel each 1/2^n fraction of the total distance to Gojo, n continues to increase and thus renders touching Gojo impossible. Look up Zeno's arrow paradox for more information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes#Arrow_paradox

This would mean he is technically untouchable, but this is obviously not true in the real world as there is a limit as to how small he can divide up the space: anything distance smaller an atom means that he would be stopping electrons within the object that is moving towards him. The electrons in the object would be already close enough for the electrostatic force to be strong enough to push back electrons in Gojo, thus causing him to feel the effects of the attack.

Nonetheless, Gojo is still very strong. The calculations below show that it would take 0.87 seconds for an attack at the speed of light to travel the original distance of 1 meter and hit Gojo from his perspective (the space of 1 meter expands at a constant rate by a factor of 2 from the perspective of the attack so as to make sure c stays the same).

CALCULATIONS
We can calculate this using summation notation on an infinite series. The sum of the total distance needed to travel is:
(in meters)

However, since limitless stops working at an atomic level (10^-10m), it would take a little more than 33 iterations of a 1 meter attack halving the distance for the attack to hit:

(or you can use logs, whatever.)

The attacker's fist takes the same amount of time travelling through the first 1/2 of the distance as to the next 1/4 as to the next 1/8 and so on until it reaches the 1/2^33.
Therefore the time taken for an attack is:
, with v representing velocity and n representing the iteration of the sequence by halving the distance.

If we plug in the speed of light into v, we can see that it would still take 0.87 seconds for the attack to hit:

CALCULATIONS END
(for those who weren't bothered to do the math, here's the rest of the article... I feel like this is going to give someone deja vu of hakari's domain expansion explanation by Gege )

Gojo's fight against Jogo showed Jogo spraying a volcanic eruption at him. Since lava has the density of 3100kg/m3 and he sprays 50–200 (min 50) cubic meters per second, this amounts to 155000 kg. He easily withstood it with no effort.

For fun, let's get Garou to shove this lava in his face at the speed of light

KE = 1/2 * mv^2

1/2 * 15500 * (3*10^9)^2
=7*10^21

However, Gojo can only stay there for 0.87 secs rather than a full second therefore ans*87% = 6*10^21

This puts Gojo at minimum High 6C in terms of energy, and I think it's fair enough to say I'm not blowing things out of proportion, just math calculations.

 

[Dalesean027]

This is like the second or third thread about this same exact thing I've seen posted at around the same time so please just take this discussion to another one of the many threads covering this same thing, there's literally no reason to spam this same thing for a upgrade. You've posted the other one's as well so stop posting more

https://vsbattles.com/threads/gojo-satorus-infinity-boosting-his-tier.137152/

 

[Joshuakh]

This is like the second or third thread about this same exact thing I've seen posted at aeound the same time so please just take this discussion to another one of the many threads covering this same thing, there's literally no reason to spam this same thing for a upgrade. You've posted the other one's as well so stop posting more

https://vsbattles.com/threads/gojo-satorus-infinity-boosting-his-tier.137152/

yep i didn't mean to post the first one it was a misclick

 

[Dalesean027]

yep i didn't mean to post the first one it was a misclick

When you post a thread just like any response you're able to edit them just click the edit button next time and specify you started the thread early instead of creating entirely new threads back to back

But you're all good since you didn't know

 

[GoldExPoints]

Well for one, a mod can't just change somebody's AP value after seeing a CRT. Knowledgeable Members and other Staff have to agree to this change first before getting down to business.

I might be incredibly wrong of my explanation of Infinity/Limitless here, since it's been a while since I've been too in depth into JJK and this is only how I personally understand Gojo's powers. But the electrostatic stuff is wrong as well, even if it is just a tangent. From what I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong), you're assuming that Infinity (Gojo's barrier is called Infinity, the umbrella of techniques he has is called Limitless) creates some form of material barrier to slow down the object because of your comments on electrostatics.

No, that is not what it does. Infinity essentially takes the finite amount of space between Gojo and an attack and divides it infinitely, squeezing an infinite space into a finite distance. What this does to other people is that it stops them at an infinitesimal distance from the Infinity Barrier (remember, Gojo can make said barrier bigger or smaller), causing them to slow down to a practical halt. Electrostatic can't happen because the atoms never come in contact to begin with because of the fabric of space itself being distorted.

And also, this calc you did is invalid because we don't use the speed of light for KE. Since you talk about relativism, you'd know that in relativism, any object with mass that travels at the speed of light would carry infinite energy and eventually collapse into a blackhole. So Jogo's lava would just turn into a singularity and destroy the entire universe in your version. Not to mention that there's absolutely no evidence to show that Jogo's lava was even traveling at lightspeed, so "Gojo is 6-C, GG." is completely unfounded anyway.

 

[Joshuakh]

Well for one, a mod can't just change somebody's AP value after seeing a CRT. Knowledgeable Members and other Staff have to agree to this change first before getting down to business.

I might be incredibly wrong of my explanation of Infinity/Limitless here, since it's been a while since I've been too in depth into JJK and this is only how I personally understand Gojo's powers. But the electrostatic stuff is wrong as well, even if it is just a tangent. From what I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong), you're assuming that Infinity (Gojo's barrier is called Infinity, the umbrella of techniques he has is called Limitless) creates some form of material barrier to slow down the object because of your comments on electrostatics.

No, that is not what it does. Infinity essentially takes the finite amount of space between Gojo and an attack and divides it infinitely, squeezing an infinite space into a finite distance. What this does to other people is that it stops them at an infinitesimal distance from the Infinity Barrier (remember, Gojo can make said barrier bigger or smaller), causing them to slow down to a practical halt. Electrostatic can't happen because the atoms never come in contact to begin with because of the fabric of space itself being distorted.

And also, this calc you did is invalid because we don't use the speed of light for KE. Since you talk about relativism, you'd know that in relativism, any object with mass that travels at the speed of light would carry infinite energy and eventually collapse into a blackhole. So Jogo's lava would just turn into a singularity and destroy the entire universe in your version. Not to mention that there's absolutely no evidence to show that Jogo's lava was even traveling at lightspeed, so "Gojo is 6-C, GG." is completely unfounded anyway.

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit - I don't mean Gojo is making an electrostatic barrier of electrons. I'm saying he stretches space out like dough so an attack can never touch him, until space is spread so far the electrostatic force can act on that scale and gets large enough to repel him.

I feel like if you had read through my calculations you would've understood what I was saying, but you probably weren't bothered to do some math. First some rebuttal:

'Electrostatic can't happen because the atoms never come in contact to begin with because of the fabric of space itself being distorted.' doesn't make any sense whatsoever. in fact, you prove my point.

Electrostatic is exactly what prevents atoms from coming into contact: it repels the electrons within them with equal force on both sides. Atoms are not meant to come into contact, don't know what happened there with your argument

So Jogo's lava would just turn into a singularity and destroy the entire universe in your version. doesn't make any sense either - this is just straight sciency buzzword lingo. I have no idea who told you this, but this is very, very much false. If something goes at the speed of light, it will need to have either 0 resting mass or infinite energy to power it but this is ignored for the sake of fiction. Otherwise the entire speed scaling would be stupid. But I still have no idea how you got the idea of something going at the speed of light would turn into a singularity and the entire universe collapsing on it. And if you want to be super duper picky about it travelling at c then fine I'll just say that it goes at (c-1) m/s and it wouldn't make a difference to my final calculation anyways. Second, singularities doesn't mean the universe collapsing on it. Black holes have singularities and the entire universe doesn't collapse on them. Don't know what happened there either.

Onto my main substantive and reconstruction:

The electrostatic stuff is right - that is the mechanism by which one feels anything: it's the force of electrostatic repulsion when two objects collide. Cuz there are only 4 forces: gravity, strong nuclear, weak nuclear and electrostatic and electrostatic is the one which repels when electrons are put really close together. BTW, I didn't mean that his infinity was because of the electrostatic force, I was just saying that the infinity would be pointless if an object were to never "touch him", but would still repel him nonetheless and therefore he would still get hit.

arg 1:
premise 1: Infinity stretches space out enough to the scale of 10^-10m, and something as fast as c-1 would allow him 0.87s before it would hit
conclusion: This means that Gojo is immune to anything that travels beneath and around the speed of light (read calculations).

arg 2:
premise 1: Gojo can withstand the weight of 150000kg bare minimum with infinity
premise 2: Gojo is immune to all things travelling beneath speed of light
premise 3: infinity's defence comes from manipulating distance which affects speed, not mass and therefore it doesn't matter if the object coming at it has a different mass
conclusion: Gojo can withstand a minimum mass of 150000kg travelling at below the speed of light

arg 3:
because of conclusion(2), using the KE formula my argument still stands.

Please don't just say that my argument was based on "Gojo is 6-C, GG.". I actually did the math and physics and have checked through my logic.

If you disagree we can settle this 1v1 on rust )

 

[GoldExPoints]

Well, your logic seems to stand to me. But do note that this will only give him 6-C durability with Infinity, since there's no indication that his offensive techniques (e.g. red, blue, purple, that weird limb crush thing) have the same potency whether by feats or statements. I'm gonna wait til other knowledgeable members give their two-cents though.

(Also I don't play CS:GO sadly lmao. Maybe Valorant?)

 

[Livinmeme]

You know what, OPM 5 pages long tier 5-B calc wasn't enough

B U M P

 

[Nullflowerblush]

He warps space. Moving on.

 

[Livinmeme]

Oh yeah also Speed of ligth KE can't be used, is accepted in speed but can't be accepted for AP, sorry buddy

 

[Livinmeme]

He warps space. Moving on.

Watch as he writes a 10 essay about how you are wrong

 

[GoldExPoints]

I read the rebuttal a bit more closely and I think I have a few problems with it. But at this point, I'm too tired to think of heavy physics lmao. Maybe in a few days idk, if somebody else (pls) doesn't take it.

 

[Dalesean027]

I read the rebuttal a bit more closely and I think I have a few problems with it. But at this point, I'm too tired to think of heavy physics lmao. Maybe in a few days idk, if somebody else (pls) doesn't take it.

Ask someone luke @dontro help here

 

[Joshuakh]

You know what, OPM 5 pages long tier 5-B calc wasn't enough

B U M P

uh sure but logic doesn't have to be very long, it just has to be correct. after all, brevity is the soul of wit

 

[Joshuakh]

Oh yeah also Speed of ligth KE can't be used, is accepted in speed but can't be accepted for AP, sorry buddy

yep - i changed it to c-1

 

[Dalesean027]

Ask someone luke @dontro help here

Excuse I didn't know the @message I sent before changed


Try getting in contact with @DontTalkDT

 

[GoldExPoints]

Alright, after a day of recharge, I think I can properly counter your points.
1.) On the black hole stuff, you literally say yourself that something would need 0 resting mass or infinite energy. For the calc to even work, the lava would need to have mass (15k kg according to you) so logically it would need to have infinite energy, and that's where my point comes into play. It's called the Schwarzschild Radius.
2.) The electrostatic stuff is still irrelevant because Infinity acts fairly far away from Gojo. If you literally look at the scene where he explains his technique, his and Jogo's hands are a few inches apart when Infinity stops him. Electrostatic forces wouldn't act if the bodies are that far away. Also shown here, few inches away. Infinity also seems to redirect any forces away from Gojo anyway, as shown with the shockwave propagating behind him.

 

[LaserPrecision]

2.) The electrostatic stuff is still irrelevant because Infinity acts fairly far away from Gojo. If you literally look at the scene where he explains his technique, his and Jogo's hands are a few inches apart when Infinity stops him. Electrostatic forces wouldn't act if the bodies are that far away. Also shown here, few inches away. Infinity also seems to redirect any forces away from Gojo anyway, as shown with the shockwave propagating behind him.

Not to get too involved as I'm not too far into the manga, but why not argue the argument of the electrostatic force is irrelevant because this is fiction. I doubt the author was aware of there being a limit to splitting up space, and if the author states that it divides space infinitely, that it does so infinitely? It's made pretty clear and stated that finite space is divided infinitely, like in the story he references, Achilles and the Tortoise. You don't really need to argue as if their premise is correct but the conclusion is wrong. You can just argue as if the premise is wrong in general.

After all, they've also acknowledged fiction behaves different from real life here;

If something goes at the speed of light, it will need to have either 0 resting mass or infinite energy to power it but this is ignored for the sake of fiction.

It's not uncommon in fiction for characters to distort space to work differently than it does in real life.

 

[GoldExPoints]

I doubt the author was aware of there being a limit to splitting up space, and if the author states that it divides space infinitely, that it does so infinitely?

I already did note that in the first argument I'm pretty sure, but he ignored it. But yeah, you're right. There is literally practical infinite distance in that finite space, that's the entire point of Infinity. Though we can't really say "It's fiction therefore it doesn't exist" as we generally accept that fiction obeys the same laws of physics as us unless blatantly shown otherwise (like being FTL), that's how calculations are even valid in the first place.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I already did note that in the first argument I'm pretty sure, but he ignored it.

Ah, didn't notice. All I saw was you explaining that it works differently than how they phrased it.

Though we can't really say "It's fiction therefore it doesn't exist" as we generally accept that fiction obeys the same laws of physics as us unless blatantly shown otherwise (like being FTL), that's how calculations are even valid in the first place.

I'm aware of that. The basis of fiction is reality. Because of that, fiction is often founded on reality. However, this is a blatant case of reality taking a "seat back". You can't split a finite space infinitely. Even if you ignored the whole electron thing, there's also plank space, which is theorized to be the smallest space possible, and would thus prevent an infinitely small number. However, that's completely ignored here. He's verbatim stated to split finite space infinitely into a convergent space (With two points in space infinitely coming closer and closer). He even states that infinity naturally exists as a concept, but he merely brings it into reality. Gege implies that infinity is a fictitious infinite space after all. I think it's safe to say real laws of physics don't apply here in the case of infinity specifically.

 

[Joshuakh]

Alright, after a day of recharge, I think I can properly counter your points.
1.) On the black hole stuff, you literally say yourself that something would need 0 resting mass or infinite energy. For the calc to even work, the lava would need to have mass (15k kg according to you) so logically it would need to have infinite energy, and that's where my point comes into play. It's called the Schwarzschild Radius.
2.) The electrostatic stuff is still irrelevant because Infinity acts fairly far away from Gojo. If you literally look at the scene where he explains his technique, his and Jogo's hands are a few inches apart when Infinity stops him. Electrostatic forces wouldn't act if the bodies are that far away. Also shown here, few inches away. Infinity also seems to redirect any forces away from Gojo anyway, as shown with the shockwave propagating behind him.

good point - I'm not too sure how speed of light is treated on this wiki, cuz some characters with resting mass are capable of going beyond it e.g. garou so I assumed it would be ignored for the sake of fiction and allow classical physics to work rather than delving into relativity and all the horrible math that comes with it.

point 2 also makes sense. But that would simply put Gojo even higher as then his infinity would be completely OP. I did this calculation as kind of a base/bare minimum strength of Gojo, where the infinity is in its base form where it's wrapped around him without him manipulating it at all, therefore taking in account attacks which he doesn't expect

 

[Joshuakh]

Ah, didn't notice. All I saw was you explaining that it works differently than how they phrased it.

I'm aware of that. The basis of fiction is reality. Because of that, fiction is often founded on reality. However, this is a blatant case of reality taking a "seat back". You can't split a finite space infinitely. Even if you ignored the whole electron thing, there's also plank space, which is theorized to be the smallest space possible, and would thus prevent an infinitely small number. However, that's completely ignored here. He's verbatim stated to split finite space infinitely into a convergent space (With two points in space infinitely coming closer and closer). He even states that infinity naturally exists as a concept, but he merely brings it into reality. Gege implies that infinity is a fictitious infinite space after all. I think it's safe to say real laws of physics don't apply here in the case of infinity specifically.

'I think it's safe to say real laws of physics don't apply here in the case of infinity specifically' - why? the whole point of this wiki is to apply real world laws to powerscale fiction. I only didn't use the laws of physics when fiction breaks them entirely (in the case of moving at lightspeed), but not when fiction bends them (moving space apart != electrostatic force doesn't exist)

 

[LaserPrecision]

I think it's safe to say real laws of physics don't apply here in the case of infinity specifically' - why? the whole point of this wiki is to apply real world laws to powerscale fiction.

Fiction is founded in reality, and thus to some extent, reality can be applied. We apply what isn't ignored (i.e., typically displays of power) and posit our own rules to make sense of things that somewhat follow logic. In the case of something blatantly defying physics, we don't apply real-world logic to the same extent unto it. It's a case-by-case basis.

I only didn't use the laws of physics when fiction breaks them entirely (in the case of moving at lightspeed)

So you agree that under several circumstances it's fine to ignore real life logic as fiction itself does that quite frequently. This isn't to say we can never apply real-world logic to fiction, we can, but we shouldn't always. Again, case-by-case basis. Moving lightspeed is a common example. Much less FTL.

but not when fiction bends them (moving space apart != electrostatic force doesn't exist)

Reality isn't bending a rule, it's entirely breaking it. Infinity is verbatim stated to split space infinitely. As explained above, that isn't possible at all by real-life physics. Even ignoring the electrostatic forces at the sub-atomic level, there's a theoretical limit to "small". That being plank length. It's because of plank length that we assume something can be passed, because that's the limit to how small something can be, and thus once plank length is exceeded, we begin to pass something. That is if it were applicable to something that functions like Achilles and the Tortoise.

You're suggesting that the fiction is wrong and that space isn't divided infinitely because in real-life it's not possible. I'm telling you this is irrelevant because the fiction states it's possible. Explaining several times that he does divide space infinitely converging fictitious number. In their reality, something can be infinitely divided, simple as that. At least in Gojo's case since he can manipulate/distort space even in ways it shouldn't work. The whole point of his ability is that he brings a concept (infinite) into reality using limitless to create an infinite convergence between two points in space (i.e. the infinite fractions between 1 and 2). That's how it works. It doesn't really matter if it's not possible in real-life, because this is how it's being stated to work in Jujutsu Kaisen. One interesting thing to note is that Gege states the space he creates is fictitious, though I'm having a bit of trouble deciphering what he means by a "fantasy" infinite space:

Gojo's cursed technique is like the convergent infinite number that appears in "Achilles and the Tortoise" brought into reality. However, the infinite number involved with Gojo's cursed technique is fantasy. The repeating addition of numbers gives birth to a fictitious zero and an "unknown" derived from dividing zero. That's why it's called "Limitless".

I assume the "addition" of numbers is the addition of zeroes coming after the decimal place as he divides space more and more, technically "creating" space between them, while at the same time not, as he's simply dividing the distance. Not sure what the fictitious zero means though. Or what he means by dividing zero. Maybe they're saying he can even divide zero distance? Not sure.

I mean, Gojo from what I've seen can even manipulate/create negative space which also shouldn't be a thing, much more so than an infinite space derived from two finite values.

Maybe electrostatic forces do exist in the verse, maybe they don't. However, Gojo's power explicitly allows him to defy the limitations here caused by electrostatic forces evidently. Simply by warping space.

Edit: I think I might have an idea of what the fictitious zero and the infinite space being merely fantasy means now. Perhaps he initially divides space, and between said space, space no longer exists, thus creating a fictional "zero" i.e. nothing/no space and he divides the zero infinitely to create a "fantasy" infinite space?

 

[Joshuakh]

Fiction is founded in reality, and thus to some extent, reality can be applied. We apply what isn't ignored (i.e., typically displays of power) and posit our own rules to make sense of things that somewhat follow logic. In the case of something blatantly defying physics, we don't apply real-world logic to the same extent unto it. It's a case-by-case basis.

So you agree that under several circumstances it's fine to ignore real life logic as fiction itself does that quite frequently. This isn't to say we can never apply real-world logic to fiction, we can, but we shouldn't always. Again, case-by-case basis. Moving lightspeed is a common example. Much less FTL.

Reality isn't bending a rule, it's entirely breaking it. Infinity is verbatim stated to split space infinitely. As explained above, that isn't possible at all by real-life physics. Even ignoring the electrostatic forces at the sub-atomic level, there's a theoretical limit to "small". That being plank length. It's because of plank length that we assume something can be passed, because that's the limit to how small something can be, and thus once plank length is exceeded, we begin to pass something. That is if it were applicable to something that functions like Achilles and the Tortoise.

You're suggesting that the fiction is wrong and that space isn't divided infinitely because in real-life it's not possible. I'm telling you this is irrelevant because the fiction states it's possible. Explaining several times that he does divide space infinitely converging fictitious number. In their reality, something can be infinitely divided, simple as that. At least in Gojo's case since he can manipulate/distort space even in ways it shouldn't work. The whole point of his ability is that he brings a concept (infinite) into reality using limitless to create an infinite convergence between two points in space (i.e. the infinite fractions between 1 and 2). That's how it works. It doesn't really matter if it's not possible in real-life, because this is how it's being stated to work in Jujutsu Kaisen. One interesting thing to note is that Gege states the space he creates is fictitious, though I'm having a bit of trouble deciphering what he means by a "fantasy" infinite space:

I assume the "addition" of numbers is the addition of zeroes coming after the decimal place as he divides space more and more, technically "creating" space between them, while at the same time not, as he's simply dividing the distance. Not sure what the fictitious zero means though. Or what he means by dividing zero. Maybe they're saying he can even divide zero distance? Not sure.

I mean, Gojo from what I've seen can even manipulate/create negative space which also shouldn't be a thing, much more so than an infinite space derived from two finite values.

Maybe electrostatic forces do exist in the verse, maybe they don't. However, Gojo's power explicitly allows him to defy the limitations here caused by electrostatic forces evidently. Simply by warping space.

Edit: I think I might have an idea of what the fictitious zero and the infinite space being merely fantasy means now. Perhaps he initially divides space, and between said space, space no longer exists, thus creating a fictional "zero" i.e. nothing/no space and he divides the zero infinitely to create a "fantasy" infinite space?

I don't like talking in subjective terms in which parts you would say 'oh well this force doesn't work in Gojo's verse'. Learn and do the math to draw a conclusion, which is what I did.

'Maybe electrostatic forces do exist in the verse, maybe they don't.' - sure lol if electrostatic didn't exist there would be nothing holding protons electrons apart and the whole universe would ******* collapse and get destroyed. It's literally one of the 4 fundamental forces alongside strong nuclear weak nuclear and gravity that holds stuff apart.

For the fantasy infinite division between space, I actually did what Gege said infinity was - Infinite number series. Gege wrote to tell to look up infinite number series which is what I did using the summation notation to calculate it (even though I didn't know that Gege wrote that when I made the post, I correctly assumed limitless was a form of infinite series).

Second, your assumption of infinity being infinitesimals have been proven wrong using calculus. Go look it up. Infinitesimal's can't exist. And if Gojo is able to break the laws of logic then he should be even higher on the scale...

BTW this is a good series on calculus and at some point he explains the infinitesimal paradox and why it isn't true:

I don't remember I think it was either ep1 or ep2 he talks about it but I've forgotten I watched it a while ago

 

[LaserPrecision]

I don't like talking in subjective terms in which parts you would say 'oh well this force doesn't work in Gojo's verse'. Learn and do the math to draw a conclusion, which is what I did.

That isn't subjective. We're simply drawing conclusions based on source material. Are you referring to how we interpret information? If so, that's almost always subjective, but everyone needs to interpret information to craft a premise and thus a conclusion. If a force is contradicted or is shown to not work in a verse, than it simply doesn't work, or that specific character can warp it. It's simple as that.

sure lol if electrostatic didn't exist there would be nothing holding protons electrons apart and the whole universe would ******* collapse and get destroyed. It's literally one of the 4 fundamental forces alongside strong nuclear weak nuclear and gravity that holds stuff apart.

Sure, in real life if we didn't have electrostatic forces, that would all happen. The same doesn't always hold true for fiction. Again, I stated it could be present in the Jujutsu Kaisen verse, but at the bare minimum, Gojo simply defies it with his cursed technique.

Second, your assumption of infinity being infinitesimals have been proven wrong using calculus. Go look it up. Infinitesimal's can't exist. And if Gojo is able to break the laws of logic then he should be even higher on the scale...

They can't exist in real life, sure. This is fiction. You agreed fiction can contradict real life. If we're to work under this logic, no character in fiction can move at lightspeed or faster. Apply this logic across the board. The fiction blatantly explains that he creates infinite amounts of finite space between him and his opponent by "dividing" space infinitely.

If he breaks the laws of physics, cool. We have abilities on the wiki specifically for characters who have hax like Gojo. In this case, he'd have spatial manipulation, as he can distort space to function in different ways than normally possible. Similar to reality warpers who can do essentially anything. Except Gojo's is obviously more limited.

BTW this is a good series on calculus and at some point he explains the infinitesimal paradox and why it isn't true:

Obviously, the infinitesimal paradox isn't true. I even brought up things such as plank length with also ruins the theory. However, Jujutsu Kaisen works under the premise that it is true. It's literally the foundation of his ability. Otherwise, his technique wouldn't be "infinity", it would just be spatial division. Gojo brings the concept of infinity to reality. The paradox doesn't hold up in real life, but in the fiction of Jujutsu Kaisen, Gojo's able to warp space to create an infinitely expansive convergent space between himself and the "edge" of infinity (The outside of the barrier).

I'll watch the video though since calculus among many other things interests me.

Basically, while I agree in real life, the premise of those paradoxes doesn't hold true in the real world, in Jujutsu Kaisen, the premise of the paradox is presumed to be true. It's literally how Gege assumes it to work. Your argument however would hold weight if Gege acknowledged that there's a limit to how small a space can get and that was his premise behind how it worked in the verse. But from what we read, he seems to simply think paradoxically space can be divided infinitely, or at the very least he wrote it into the fiction with the prerequisite that it does work that way.

It would just seem very ironic for Gojo to explain he creates an infinite space between him and his opponent and to use proposals/paradoxes that involve the possibility of an infinite number/space to explain the ability if it didn't create infinite space, and instead created "A" amount of meters/centimeters/any unit.

 

[Joshuakh]

That isn't subjective. We're simply drawing conclusions based on source material. Are you referring to how we interpret information? If so, that's almost always subjective, but everyone needs to interpret information to craft a premise and thus a conclusion. If a force is contradicted or is shown to not work in a verse, than it simply doesn't work, or that specific character can warp it. It's simple as that.

Sure, in real life if we didn't have electrostatic forces, that would all happen. The same doesn't always hold true for fiction. Again, I stated it could be present in the Jujutsu Kaisen verse, but at the bare minimum, Gojo simply defies it with his cursed technique.

They can't exist in real life, sure. This is fiction. You agreed fiction can contradict real life. If we're to work under this logic, no character in fiction can move at lightspeed or faster. Apply this logic across the board. The fiction blatantly explains that he creates infinite amounts of finite space between him and his opponent by "dividing" space infinitely.

If he breaks the laws of physics, cool. We have abilities on the wiki specifically for characters who have hax like Gojo. In this case, he'd have spatial manipulation, as he can distort space to function in different ways than normally possible. Similar to reality warpers who can do essentially anything. Except Gojo's is obviously more limited.

Obviously, the infinitesimal paradox isn't true. I even brought up things such as plank length with also ruins the theory. However, Jujutsu Kaisen works under the premise that it is true. It's literally the foundation of his ability. Otherwise, his technique wouldn't be "infinity", it would just be spatial division. Gojo brings the concept of infinity to reality. The paradox doesn't hold up in real life, but in the fiction of Jujutsu Kaisen, Gojo's able to warp space to create an infinitely expansive convergent space between himself and the "edge" of infinity (The outside of the barrier).

I'll watch the video though since calculus among many other things interests me.

Basically, while I agree in real life, the premise of those paradoxes doesn't hold true in the real world, in Jujutsu Kaisen, the premise of the paradox is presumed to be true. It's literally how Gege assumes it to work. Your argument however would hold weight if Gege acknowledged that there's a limit to how small a space can get and that was his premise behind how it worked in the verse. But from what we read, he seems to simply think paradoxically space can be divided infinitely, or at the very least he wrote it into the fiction with the prerequisite that it does work that way.

It would just seem very ironic for Gojo to explain he creates an infinite space between him and his opponent and to use proposals/paradoxes that involve the possibility of an infinite number/space to explain the ability if it didn't create infinite space, and instead created "A" amount of meters/centimeters/any unit.

Hmmm... I don't think I said that Gojo's infinity can't divide infinitely. Even though he can divide smaller and smaller, the scale of the space being operated on would mean different forces would increase exponentially in the effect on the object, rendering infinity kinda useless. Yes, the object never gets to 'touch' him, but the forces of the object pushes Gojo back without touching him.

I think I'm not expressing myself clearly. Think of every object as having a mini-force field size 10^-9m around it. This is caused by electrostatic. Although Gojo can infinitely divide space up to slow things down, by the time he is dividing 10^-9m into 10^-10m, the 10^-9m force field around the object itself would push Gojo back with an equal force and in the opposite direction.

I think a valid reason why he states that with confidence in JJK is cuz nobody is remotely capable of achieving lightspeed and above, and if he can stop lightspeed (which is the fastest thing in the universe) then he can stop anything. And I basically used lightspeed * the largest mass he has sustained with infinity to calculate KE.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Hmmm... I don't think I said that Gojo's infinity can't divide infinitely. Even though he can divide smaller and smaller, the scale of the space being operated on would mean different forces would increase exponentially in the effect on the object, rendering infinity kinda useless. Yes, the object never gets to 'touch' him, but the forces of the object pushes Gojo back without touching him.

While you're not directly claiming, it, you're claiming that at a certain point it would become redundant as it would no longer benefit him. The clear intent is that he creates infinite distance and thus nothing would ever reach him (With exceptions being under Domain Expansion and special objects). With his ability to distort space, he could simply nullify that problem specifically for his infinity. That could be either by removing the electrostatic forces, or by manipulating them to not function normally within his infinity. I think it's quite clear the author didn't write the Cursed Technique with this in mind (electrostatic forces) as it would prove counterintuitive to how it should work.

I think I'm not expressing myself clearly. Think of every object as having a mini-force field size 10^-9m around it. This is caused by electrostatic. Although Gojo can infinitely divide space up to slow things down, by the time he is dividing 10^-9m into 10^-10m, the 10^-9m force field around the object itself would push Gojo back with an equal force and in the opposite direction.

It's clear the author doesn't think or believe it should work in reference to Infinity. Gojo directly compares it to Achilles and the Tortoise

Say we have 1 and 2, each representing one edge of infinity. The fist needs to get to 1 to hit Gojo, but to get to 1 it has to travel through 2 first. Between 2 and 1 would be 1.9, 1.8, 1.7, 1.6, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, 1.2, 1.1, 1.01, 1.001, 1.0001, 1.00001, 1.000001, and so on forever.

Similar to the Achilles and the Tortoise story (Except in that story, they simply divided the distance by 2, though the division can be by any increment, it doesn't really matter how it's done as long as it's split into a smaller distance). He says it's the infinity from Achilles and the Tortoise. In the context of that story specifically, the concept of a number infinitely shrinking (converging) is a thing. Not a thing in real life, but a thing in that story, and in this story.

No matter how you cut it, the intent of this ability is that he creates a literal infinite space from the concept of infinity by bringing it into reality. If you can find a way for him to create an infinitely small distance with physics still applying, cool. If you can't? That's fine, it's fiction, doesn't need to work. Heck, maybe he breaks space down so small that not even electrostatic force exists in the space between the infinity. Past plank length, etc.

I think a valid reason why he states that with confidence in JJK is cuz nobody is remotely capable of achieving lightspeed and above, and if he can stop lightspeed (which is the fastest thing in the universe) then he can stop anything. And I basically used lightspeed * the largest mass he has sustained with infinity to calculate KE.

It's not just him stating it though, it's the author explaining that there's a literal infinite space between point a and point b. Meaning nothing can touch him ever (Except of course what he wants to touch him since Gojo can allow things to pass the infinity based on mass, speed, shape, and cursed energy). He explains the concept of infinity is real (As in the never-ending end point of all numbers), and that he makes it a reality. If his ability didn't create an infinite space, he wouldn't state it. He would have no reason to and wouldn't have a reason to lie about it (He was shown to be extremely truthful, and plus, revealing how your cursed technique is noted to make the technique more powerful or effective).

I feel like this isn't very hard to believe when Gojo's blatantly stated that limitless allows him to do things that shouldn't at all be possible and create natural phenomena impossibilities such as negative space. But even not considering that, there's no reason to assume he's limited by these rules when no mention of them is present and the way his cursed technique contradicts the real-life limitation.

 

[Joshuakh]

While you're not directly claiming, it, you're claiming that at a certain point it would become redundant as it would no longer benefit him. The clear intent is that he creates infinite distance and thus nothing would ever reach him (With exceptions being under Domain Expansion and special objects). With his ability to distort space, he could simply nullify that problem specifically for his infinity. That could be either by removing the electrostatic forces, or by manipulating them to not function normally within his infinity. I think it's quite clear the author didn't write the Cursed Technique with this in mind (electrostatic forces) as it would prove counterintuitive to how it should work.

It's clear the author doesn't think or believe it should work in reference to Infinity. Gojo directly compares it to Achilles and the Tortoise

Say we have 1 and 2, each representing one edge of infinity. The fist needs to get to 1 to hit Gojo, but to get to 1 it has to travel through 2 first. Between 2 and 1 would be 1.9, 1.8, 1.7, 1.6, 1.5, 1.4, 1.3, 1.2, 1.1, 1.01, 1.001, 1.0001, 1.00001, 1.000001, and so on forever.

Similar to the Achilles and the Tortoise story (Except in that story, they simply divided the distance by 2, though the division can be by any increment, it doesn't really matter how it's done as long as it's split into a smaller distance). He says it's the infinity from Achilles and the Tortoise. In the context of that story specifically, the concept of a number infinitely shrinking (converging) is a thing. Not a thing in real life, but a thing in that story, and in this story.

No matter how you cut it, the intent of this ability is that he creates a literal infinite space from the concept of infinity by bringing it into reality. If you can find a way for him to create an infinitely small distance with physics still applying, cool. If you can't? That's fine, it's fiction, doesn't need to work. Heck, maybe he breaks space down so small that not even electrostatic force exists in the space between the infinity. Past plank length, etc.

It's not just him stating it though, it's the author explaining that there's a literal infinite space between point a and point b. Meaning nothing can touch him ever (Except of course what he wants to touch him since Gojo can allow things to pass the infinity based on mass, speed, shape, and cursed energy). He explains the concept of infinity is real (As in the never-ending end point of all numbers), and that he makes it a reality. If his ability didn't create an infinite space, he wouldn't state it. He would have no reason to and wouldn't have a reason to lie about it (He was shown to be extremely truthful, and plus, revealing how your cursed technique is noted to make the technique more powerful or effective).

I feel like this isn't very hard to believe when Gojo's blatantly stated that limitless allows him to do things that shouldn't at all be possible and create natural phenomena impossibilities such as negative space. But even not considering that, there's no reason to assume he's limited by these rules when no mention of them is present and the way his cursed technique contradicts the real-life limitation.

ok... surely then you're arguing that Gojo should be even higher

 

[DaReaperMan]

This doesn't sound, at all, scalablw to Gojo's tiering reading the entire thread. It ain't even enviro destruction

 

[azontr]

 

[LaserPrecision]

ok... surely then you're arguing that Gojo should be even higher

Sorry for the late response. I didn't expect you to reply that much later. Physically, he shouldn't scale off of this. The whole point of the cursed technique is to avoid a physical collision. In terms of hax he'd be "higher" though.