God of War: Descension

[Hellbeast]

Yeah I recall @KLOL506 or @DarkDragonMedeus mentioning that.

That and the Universal System thing are admittedly things I'm relatively lacking in familiarity on but from what you've mentioned I don't think Kratos and co would scale in entirety it

 

[Planck69]

Also, I feel the opposition should cut back on using evidence from when Kratos is already on par with gods to argue his status as a Demigod.

 

[Hellbeast]

Also just realized something about GOW Colour Theory

Red simultaneously represents Kratos, Ares, Athena (technically since the Blades of Athena can turn red) and Sparta so colours can be shared between magical and non magical sources. Not sure how that effects the discourse but it's certainly there

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Because it's never actually acknowledged outside of gameplay at all and we never see any implications Kratos does the same with the world weapons.
Remember this is demigod Kratos we're discussing

I don't see why would need implications when Ascension is the one which introduces it first time. I don't see why such a basic visual comprehension should be spoon fed to us.

They kinda aren't; sure this is AP but I'm pointing out we shouldn't be assuming the BoO's mechanics are something verse wide rather then something specific to that weapon

it was just an example,

The page you linked also mentions coloured orbs connected to different gameplay elements (elemental allegiances; upgrading magic vs upgrading damage) so I'm assuming that's part of your reasoning here.

I never explicitly or implicitly as a factor, so don't associate me with orbs yet. Whether or not it is correct is irrelevent to me currently.

So they increase a character's base strength but they aren't above base strength?
Could you clarify what you mean?

Simple Addition, thats it.
X+Y=Z. Kratos oe Zeus > BoO. Simple as that.

Fairly; Kratos mostly just touched the blade to have his power drained which seems to imply it's more of the Blade then him

he had to willingly sacrifice it.

Aside from the oddly condescending attitude there

How? The page even acknowledges multiple colours are shared by differing Gods (Purple for Hades, Artemis and the Spear of Destiny), none of which have any overlap at all and the very explanation for "blue is used because it's the colour of the sky" feels like a head-canon rationalization that doesn't hold up that well.

And again I'm really not seeing why a colour is definitive proof that we're looking at universal systems here rather then a design motif

just being sarcastic, I don't see why you would be offended, especially when I used "us", which would include myself.
magic having different natures doesn't mean their core aspect of amping the user is irrelevent, Thats all the point I wanted to make.

Also, I feel the opposition should cut back on using evidence from when Kratos is already on par with gods to argue his status as a Demigod.

hmmm... I can understand this, but Its not like fundamentals of magic change completely between the two.
but Anyways I think we have provided enough proof for DemiGod. Another proof is Deimos who can amp Arms of Sparta despite being DemiGod.

 

[Planck69]

hmmm... I can understand this, but Its not like fundamentals of magic change completely between the two.
but Anyways I think we have provided enough proof for DemiGod. Another proof is Deimos who can amp Arms of Sparta despite being DemiGod.

Wasn't Deimos beating up Kratos without them? His whole situation is as much a mess as something like the Sisters of Fate.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Wasn't Deimos beating up Kratos without them? His whole situation is as much a mess as something like the Sisters of Fate.

Yeah...the Gauntlet/shackle thingy on his arm.(not even a weapon technically).

He uses Arms against Thanatos when Kratos and him make up, Kratos gives him weapons since the Gauntlet/shackles is broken.

Diemos is just a strong demigod, not a God like Kratos at this point.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Wasn't Deimos beating up Kratos without them? His whole situation is as much a mess as something like the Sisters of Fate.

Yeah I was just about to ask this. But to be fair Kratos was holding back a lot.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

not gonna lie, i am reminded of Doom upgrades and all the debate surrounding whether all the 2B/2A ratings are environmental destructions or actually scale to physicals or not........

 

[Planck69]

Yeah I was just about to ask this. But to be fair Kratos was holding back a lot.

I haven't played it in forever but I do remember that Kratos had major injuries and he doesn't have the Dragon Ball excuse of his Ki, and therefore durability, going down.

Regardless, the CoO scene seems promising as far as channeling power goes.

 

[Hellbeast]

I don't see why would need implications when Ascension is the one which introduces it first time. I don't see why such a basic visual comprehension should be spoon fed to us.

I don't see why we should use a gameplay attack for what is, logically, a completely mundane weapon, to seriously argue that Kratos passively amps every weapon he uses in the series.

it was just an example,

With all due respect it's a poor example then

Simple Addition, thats it.
X+Y=Z. Kratos oe Zeus > BoO. Simple as that.

The Blade is comparable to Zeus and Kratos; it doesn't amp them and again, stay on topic

he had to willingly sacrifice it.

By embracing the Blade to let it drain him; Kratos was perfectly willing to just fight the Colossus himself until Zeus hyped up the potency of the Blade's incredibly capacity for destruction.

We also see in the battle with Zeus (as depicted in II's Novelization) that the Blade of Olympus can drain you without consent

• Page 354 describes the Blade sucking Zeus' energy as the reason he shrinks
• Page 356 describes Zeus as slowly weakening when he wrestles Kratos for the Blade at the end
• Athena has her powers drained that same page

Hell the terminology of "drained" kinda makes me think it's intended more as a mechanic of the Blade rather then anything else

hmmm... I can understand this, but Its not like fundamentals of magic change completely between the two.

Why would they be remotely the same? Deimos (despite being a demigod with no godly weapons) is currently treated as relative to the Olympians like Ares and he's the only one who is this way alongside Hercules in GOWIII

but Anyways I think we have provided enough proof for DemiGod. Another proof is Deimos who can amp Arms of Sparta despite being DemiGod.

You haven't tho; you've used colours and a bunch of feats from godlike entities or godly weapons

 

[HammerStrikes219]

opposite actually, resistance would if the electricity isn't even conducted through the material, like this, even then its durability and resistance.

layout the criteria then, enlighten me.

that remains to be seen.

“
The energy of electricity can directly be calculated if its current and electrical potential difference is known.

If the current is a ampere and the electrical potential difference is v volt, then the power of the lightning is given as a*v J/s. Usually 1 second of this is addressed to the AP, unless the electrical flow couldn't be sustained for that long.

It should be noted that for real electricity enduring a lightning strike usually doesn't require durability equal to the lightnings full energy. There are two reasons for that:

1. The lightning will usually take only a certain path through the body. Along that path there can be strong burns, but the rest can be largely unaffected.
2. The lightning doesn't discharge its entire energy in the human body. It will usually also heat up the air and pass on into the ground where its energy disperses. The amount of energy lightning produces in form of heat when flowing through is largely determined by the objects electrical resistance.

Due to this, and possibly other factors, it is for example possible for humans to survive being hit by lightning, even though an average normal lightning contains approximately 1.6 billion Joules. The energy of secondary effects that lightning might cause, can in some cases fully apply on the other hand.”

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lightning_Feats

That isn’t entirely true.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I don't see why we should use a gameplay attack for what is, logically, a completely mundane weapon, to seriously argue that Kratos passively amps every weapon he uses in the series.

The fact that a mundane weapon does extra-ordinary techniques and can harm Furies who are comparable to kratos while in his hand....speaks volume.

With all due respect it's a poor example then

i didn't bring it up, nor do i need it.

The Blade is comparable to Zeus and Kratos

never said it wasn't.

it doesn't amp them and again, stay on topic

Don't tell me to stay on topic when you ask me elaborate in the first place, i didn't even bring it up, But yeah we can drop BoO now.

By embracing the Blade to let it drain him; Kratos was perfectly willing to just fight the Colossus himself until Zeus hyped up the potency of the Blade's incredibly capacity for destruction.

We also see in the battle with Zeus (as depicted in II's Novelization) that the Blade of Olympus can drain you without consent

• Page 354 describes the Blade sucking Zeus' energy as the reason he shrinks
• Page 356 describes Zeus as slowly weakening when he wrestles Kratos for the Blade at the end
• Athena has her powers drained that same page

Hell the terminology of "drained" kinda makes me think it's intended more as a mechanic of the Blade rather then anything else

Those samples are unviewable for me, but we are dropping BoO anyways.....so whatever.

Why would they be remotely the same? Deimos (despite being a demigod with no godly weapons) is currently treated as relative to the Olympians like Ares and he's the only one who is this way alongside Hercules in GOWIII

how does AP change how mechanics of magic work?? Thats like saying Goku is fundamentally different from DBS to DB/DBZ counterpart.

 

[Hellbeast]

The fact that a mundane weapon does extra-ordinary techniques and can harm Furies who are comparable to kratos while in his hand....speaks volume.

And the fact those are only in gameplay speaks volumes against it.
I'd also note the implication that mundane weapons can severely harm the Furies kinda breaks the scale a bit

Don't tell me to stay on topic when you ask me elaborate in the first place, i didn't even bring it up, But yeah we can drop BoO now.

I asked you to stay on topic because you discussed something out of the revision's bounds

how does AP change how mechanics of magic work?? Thats like saying Goku is fundamentally different from DBS to DB/DBZ counterpart.

1. Because Deimos is clearly his own thing and we shouldn't be discussing him in a thread dedicated to characters who don't scale to him
2. Because Deimos' raw power certainly implies he's not your average demigod at we shouldn't be using his capabilities to justify Pre-God Kratos'
3. Because the Arms of Sparta were already (by your argument) empowered by Kratos using them; we regularly see godly weapons maintain their magic abilities when mortals wield them

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And the fact those are only in gameplay speaks volumes against it.

unless you want to perform wiki wide revisions to yeet everything gameplay, your point is irrelevent. I am reminded of Earl and his shenanigans once again.
the only instance in which we would discard gameplay is if it severely contradict lore and context. You don't just go dismissing "gameplay" to your convinience just cuz, especially over something this simple.

I'd also note the implication that mundane weapons can severely harm the Furies kinda breaks the scale a bit

Implying that the weapon is "normal and mundane" when used by Kratos smfh. >.>

1. Because Deimos is clearly his own thing and we shouldn't be discussing him in a thread dedicated to characters who don't scale to him
2. Because Deimos' raw power certainly implies he's not your average demigod at we shouldn't be using his capabilities to justify Pre-God Kratos'
3. Because the Arms of Sparta were already (by your argument) empowered by Kratos using them; we regularly see godly weapons maintain their magic abilities when mortals wield them

i can speak a lot on this, but I don't want a headache in midnight. Nor do I need it to argue currently anyways. i will use it later if I need it.

 

[Hellbeast]

unless you want to perform wiki wide revisions to yeet everything gameplay, your point is irrelevent. I am reminded of Earl and his shenanigans once again.
the only instance in which we would discard gameplay is if it severely contradict lore and context. You don't just go dismissing "gameplay" to your convinience just cuz, especially over something this simple.

Strawman
I'm not saying "gameplay bad; no more gameplay" I'm saying it being the only evidence for something being the case isn't remotely enough reason to use it as something to prop up a verse wider system

i can speak a lot on this, but I don't want a headache in midnight. Nor do I need it to argue currently anyways. i will use it later if I need it.

Jokes on you I'm doing this at 4 in the morning

 

[Hellbeast]

Also semi-related, my request of @Dark-Carioca got finished and evaluated as fine so we now have 15 9-A feats for Kratos and Class M lifting

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Strawman
I'm not saying "gameplay bad; no more gameplay" I'm saying it being the only evidence for something being the case isn't remotely enough reason to use it as something to prop up a verse wider system

is that so, guess we will just have to see what others think then, since we both clearly aren't gonna budge.

Jokes on you I'm doing this at 4 in the morning

missing out on sweet sleep, smh

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Also semi-related, my request of @Dark-Carioca got finished and evaluated as fine so we now have 15 9-A feats for Kratos and Class M lifting

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many 9-A feat... A question, for example, if there was one High 8-C feat, would we count it or would we ignore it because of the abundance of 9-A feats?

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I definitely think someone should calc Alecto's lantern feat. That's a key feat, really.

 

[Hellbeast]

that so, guess we will just have to see what others think then, since we both clearly aren't gonna budge.

All too true
I think Glassman has opinions on the thread but idk what those are

missing out on sweet sleep, smh

I can't go 5K from my apartment because of Covid so I got time
Plus I went to sleep like 8:30

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo many 9-A feat... A question, for example, if there was one High 8-C feat, would we count it or would we ignore it because of the abundance of 9-A feats?

It depends; normally I'd advocate for more High 8-C for consistency's sake but you could argue most of these feats are fairly casual anyway.

I definitely think someone should calc Alecto's lantern feat. That's a key feat, really.

That'd be lifting Strength tho, not AP (I believe I address it in the OP)

Alecto and the Hydra's GPE could be super helpful tho

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

That'd be lifting Strength tho, not AP (I believe I address it in the OP)

Alecto and the Hydra's GPE could be super helpful tho

And what about her death explosion destroying her palace? Which to be fair Kratos did tank. I think you brought this up earlier

 

[Hellbeast]

That'd be Environmental Destruction and probably a chain reaction

You can see her ink ignites separately to create several explosions that destroy her temple. At most you could scale Kratos to one of those smaller explosions (even though I'd note we never see him tank them)

P̶l̶u̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶l̶u̶c̶k̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶9̶-̶A̶

EDIT: Rewatched the Chains of Olympus thing and I'm thinking this is a power the tree has; she specifically claims that the tree is what "releases the sins of your past" (this referring to Kratos power being drained). There's also visual stuff like

• The tree begins to glow with some golden light from within as Kratos gives up his powers
• Kratos' orbs are sucked by the tree (symbolically representing his powers)
• The Blades seem to lose their power starting from the points on the tree (which I think further implies it's the tree)

She does mention Kratos "foolishly disarming" himself but I think this is more referential of Kratos casting his weapons at the tree; letting the powers he gained be absorbed by it. So yeah this definitely doesn't work as Kratos energizing his own weapons (especially since the feat involves powers be taken from his baldes; not him willing them to greater strength)

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd also call the above Power Absorption rather then Power Nullification; the terms seem more that Kratos gave the tree his powers and he gets them back by murdering people of the Elysian Fields; implying that's just consumed by Elysium

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Bruh I already called this power absorption in last Hax addition thread a month ago.....whoever thought it was anything else....

 

[Hellbeast]

Eh noone said that; just felt like specifying

 

[chosen]

Introduction:​

How it do fellow gamers? Now I’ve been playing through the newest God of War and so between that, Mythymoo’s playthroughs of the entire main saga of games and God of War: Fallen God’s release (Damn I hate the filler) I’ve been on a bit of a kick for our boi Kratos.

Unfortunately this kick involves downgrades so that’s rough

Proposed Downgrades:​

​

Spoiler: A Word of Warning

Despite myself having expressed disbelief with the current GOW ratings, I just want to establish this will have nothing to do with that, these downgrades are simply pinpointed to the issues I believe exist within the scaling as it pertains to a Demigod Kratos.

This would mean the Kratos that we see before he ascends to truly Godlike levels of power by killing Ares and is more focused on the stuff from Ascension to God of War 1’s main campaign. This is only the first part of a small series of revisions that are going to be for the GOW Universe; the second part of which will touch the scaling and abilities for the top tier Gods of the verse (no major downgrades). With that out of the way we can begin.

Spoiler: Descending the Ladder

So God of War: Ascension. Some loved it, some hated it and some just forgot it ever came out at all. Despite what you might think about this game it definitely is the source for the best feats Kratos has as just a regular demigod so let’s start by going through that.

Spoiler: Redemption You Seek

Part of the reasoning for Kratos’ current placement in Tier 7 is his scaling to another fallen mortal, chosen and uplifted by the Olympian Gods as their Champion - The Redeemed Warrior.
For those who don’t know, this is big because the Warrior can gain several weapons through the GOW multiplayer, including the Spear of Poseidon - a weapon infused with the power of a Mediterannean Tempest, which Keplekely calculated as being about 30 Megatons of TNT

The reasoning for the scaling is as follows

• The Warrior was also chosen by the Gods as a Champion
• The Warrior was able to battle Demigods such as Achilles
• The Warrior can fight in several trials including against the giant Polyphemus, the prophet Castor and even the Demigod Hercules (the latter of which are characters Kratos battles)

Spoiler: Spear Stuff

The main relevance of the spear is that it possesses the power of a tempest within it and people tank that.
Yeah firstly there’s no reason to assume that because it has the power of a tempest within it that it’s seriously outputting city destroying blasts with every attack. Sure it’s got that empowering the spear but power source =|= output. We’ve regularly seen characters get rejected from scaling to their power sources (such as the 2016 Cyberdemon) and it's likely The same here.

The current scaling would also imply the Warriors hit you with the full power of their spears with each individual strike and that barely makes sense at all. Even ignoring that, we’re scaling their physicals purely based off one of their weapons even though that has issues.

We see them regularly tear through each other in the multiplayer stuff, slice through monsters like butter and even slay the Titanic Polyphemus but there’s no Tier 7 feats outside of this. We do see a “Trial of the Gods” segment where we battle Hercules but this feels questionable considering he’s exactly the same design as in 3 (despite this being some 20 years before GOWIII), is in the Forum from that game and also is basically just a reskinned version of his boss fight from that game (and he breaks the Cestus which canonically is busted since he has them decades later).

We also know they have to be weaker than Kratos since the GOW1 Novelisation has Athena claim Ares’ blessing granted Kratos “near Olympian strength and toughness” (and there’s the very point of Kratos being bred to be a perfect weapon against Olympus) so between that and him so easily besting Pollux and Castor, who can kill the Warriors easily. All of the evidence would imply he’s far greater then what is, essentially a run of the mill Champion for Olympus, so the lack of reliable Tier 7 stuff for Kratos bodes poorly for the Warriors.

We see a similar statement for the Ice of Poseidon “containing the might of a Typhoon” and this has the same issue but doesn’t seem as bad. We see Kratos create massive ice crystals with his ultimate attack for this which could imply he’s higher with Ice Manipulation (I say higher because there’s no real evidence of a universal power system) and this could apply to the Warriors since some of their attacks involve this ice.

​

Spoiler: Demigod Stuff

As for the Demigod section I have to ask, where does the Warrior fighting Orion, Achilles and Odysseus come from? While you can acquire armors linked to them in game there's no reference I can recall of actually fighting or killing them at any point. Not in the Trial of the Gods, not in the item descriptions, nothing

You literally just unlock them or preorder them. The Warrior getting them also doesn’t mean that he has canonically killed or met them because, while the multiplayer is officially considered canonical, we see the Warrior get items through unlocks that don’t make much sense (gaining the Nemean Cestus for instance). Even outside of that one armour, that of Perseus, is able to be acquired in the multiplayer and we know Perseus dies in GOWII at the hands of an angry (and potentially confused by monologues) Kratos.

This also ignores the idea that, to my knowledge, these demigods have absolutely no feats of any kind (outside of Perseus) and in fact I’m unsure if they’re mentioned anywhere else in lore (feel free to correct me tho

Spoiler: Fantasy and the Furious

Ok so there’s no way to say this nicely so I’ll just say it this way, the profile page for the Furies (The main antagonists of Ascension) really sucks.

Not even touching it’s scaling contents, the page for some reason, is for the three Furies collectively and seems to composite their capabilities (despite their very obviously different characteristics and abilities) which is just erroneous.

The Furies are no less prominent in their game’s narrative then the likes of the Sisters of Fate or the Gods of Olympus and yet the latter have individual pages for each member of their respective factions.

The page should be deleted and new pages for the individual Furies (Alecto, Megaera and Tisiphone) should be devised to replace it.
Moving into the powerscaling side of things, the profile places the Furies at city level for three reasons.

• Tisiphone’s Illusions and Reality Warping feats (Such as the City of Sparta)
• Alecto’s death shattering her palace
• Alecto’s monster form shaking a chain of islands

These are very separate topic so we’ll have to cut into them one by one

Spoiler: Tisiphone Shenanigans

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/God_of_War_Ascension:_Busload_of_Furies

So, Tisiphone is something huh? Biggest cutie among the Furies, has a cool Pokemon/Stand and can reality warp like her name was Franklin Richards. The main feat she has is recreating Sparta to taunt Kratos and creating the final battle arena for Kratos and Alecto.

Let’s take these one by one, shall we? Firstly we’re just arbitrarily saying she recreated all of Sparta when we just see a few houses and streets, for all we know that’s the extent of her illusion here but since I’m not low balling I’d note we can see a moon in the background so this feat has the capacity to be higher or lower than what we say it is. The second feat is more interesting since the location she conjures seems to be a representation of the Furies’ birthplace, complete with swirling whirlpools and storms. This is mostly fine so nothing to say here imo (this could just be BFR to that location but I don’t have any evidence for that).

The issue here is I don’t know why we assume this scales to her physicals, she doesn’t perform any Tier 7 feat and she’s shown as being easily overpowered by Kratos (to the point he crushes her neck in his grip). This also fits with how she never confronts Kratos directly, always hiding behind illusions and using her Daimon to go damage, making her seem more like a support fighter to her sisters (which is mostly the role she takes in boss fights).

Adding to this is the fact that her title is the “Fury of the Mind”, implying that’s a specific capability of hers and we see all of the illusions made by Furies have the same effect as hers, further implying it’s mostly here doing this. The reasoning here is more sound than The others but the main takeaway is

• We shouldn’t scale her powers to her physicals
• We shouldn’t assume the other Furies can do what she does

I think the best idea here is to say she’s Unknown/what Kratos is physically, higher with Illusions

Spoiler: Alecto is Homeless

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/God_of_War_Ascension:_The_Temple_of_the_Furies's_destruction
The biggest feat that the Fury Queen, Alecto possesses is her destroying her entire palace with her death. This has been calculated as being solidly into 7-B by Kep and it at first glance does work fine as a feat since the calc seems solid.

So why am I bringing it up in a downgrade thread? The problem is we got new rules for how to treat stabilization feats. This, obviously, means we need to re-evaluate the feat under our new guidelines and see if it works.
Speaking of let’s begin

• Requirement 1: Specify what exactly is being stabilized so that it is made clear what the character's sustainability is doing precisely.
  • Answer: It’s fairly clear that the temple of Furies is being destroyed here so this passes
• Requirement 2: Prove that the stabilized structure is being directly sustained by the power of the character and not from the character's abilities, life force, existence, magical properties or any unknown connection that is independent of their statistics.
  • Answer: And here the issue is; there’s no evidence to prove this is in proportion with any of Alecto’s other feats. There’s one near this bit that has issues too (see below)
• Requirement 3: Prove that the character's stabilization is comparable to the scale of the structure they are stabilizing. Preferably, it should be proven that the character's sustainability is comparable to the destruction of the structure to best show that their power rivals the destructive output of what would destroy the structure in the first place. Please keep in mind that this may vary depending on how the structure's destruction would occur. For example, if a character sustains the existence of a universe that would not be instantly or immediately destroyed when no longer supported, the power of their sustainability would not be comparable to destructive output that completely and immediately destroys a universe, and would not be sufficient enough to be given a 3-A or Low 2-C rating. However, their sustainability could be given either rating if the universe they sustain would be completely destroyed instantly or immediately without support.
  • Answer: Looking at the video it seems like multiple explosions all occur at a quick rate, collapsing the Temple in a devastating chain reaction which likely means this isn’t something it does in one go
• Requirement 4: Prove that the power of the character's stabilization consistently scales to their regular statistics, similar to our standards for creation feats.
  • Answer: None really, outside of Tisiphone’s reality warping the Furies don’t have any concrete Tier 7 feats and there’s no real elaboration of how this happens other then “Fury Dead = big boom”

Kratos does seem to tank this (which could scale anyway) but since we see it’s a chain reaction doing the feat he’s likely only surviving a single, smaller explosion. You can see the ink ignite This is also ignoring the very real possibility that he simply escapes off camera but that’s something else

Spoiler: Alecto; Play Godzilla's Theme

So Alecto can just straight up transform into a Kaiju I guess. At one point this Levithan form was able to pull down the Lantern of Delos, causing the camera to visibly shudder and shake. Now this would seem to be her shaking the island (a feat that regularly reaches high Kiloton ranges) as well right

Well not quite

The Island of Delos is visibly tiny, being dwarfed by the giant statue of Apollo that looms over the chain. It’s clearly not an average sized island so assuming shaking it is going to require the same force is a massive and frankly bizarre assumption. This also doesn’t even account that, judging by the amount of major damage (or lack thereof) this likely wouldn’t be all that impressive in terms of magnitude earthquakes either.

And that’s ignoring the very real possibility that there is no earthquake. It’s certainly > every other feat I’ve seen for Demigod Kratos (relevant because he is shown as being on par with Monster Alecto) and there’s no reference from omniscient sources I can find that this did in fact shake an island.

It’s entirely possible the shaking of the camera is simply intended for dramatic effect and isn’t seriously implying Alecto casually vibrates an island chain by pushing down the Lantern of Delos.
I’m also willing to bet that assuming an actual earthquake would likely be above pretty much every other feat Kratos does in this game (the GPE of her monster form might be decent tho)

Spoiler: Persephone Problems

Ok so I was going to make this just about Ascension Kratos but then i realised this bullshit exists. Yeah so basically Persephone being the tier she is right now is dumb as hell. The reasoning is that she shattered the World Piller with her death explosion and this somehow extends to her regular power. This current reasoning leaves massive holes because of a few major issues

1. If Persephone has the ability to just do this, why did she go on this huge scheme with Atlas? Why did she bother freeing Atlas to have him steal Helios’ power and then use him to shatter the Pillar That Holds The World? It’s just a massive amount of effort to expend when she can just do it herself
2. Persephone is an absolutely irrelevant deity and we’re implying she’s = to the likes of an empowered Atlas
3. We’re ignoring Atlas had several strikes in on the pillar before Persephone’s death, meaning it may well be somewhat weakened
4. Persephone didn’t even destroy the whole pillar, there’s still a large portion Atlas is standing on

So not only does Persephone not perform a feat on her own that we think she did, our current rating for her basically ***** the scaling’s comprehensiveness. This needs to be amended immediately and this is fairly easy to do, just separate Persephone’s physical stats to her self destruction feat. It’s much more consistent with her being a relatively minor deity in the pantheon and with the fact we don’t see her perform top tier feats otherwise. Now this might just be a minor impact but there’s one thing that gets affected; the Gauntlet of Zeus.

Spoiler: The Gauntlet of Zeus

So Chains of Olympus Kratos gets top tier scaling based on the Gauntlet killing Persephone which obviously gets nuked if we downgrade Persephone. The other stuff adding to its current ratings are as follows:

• It chains Atlas
• It was used to chain the other captive Titans
• It killed Charon, who stomped Kratos

Going one by one will help address this. Firstly Atlas is impressive but unquantifiable since it’s Kratos punching chains hard enough for Atlas to not move (or at least we’ve treated it as unquantifiable). The other Titans are the same but the issue then is then added to because these Titans are kinda featless.

So what about Charon? Well he doesn’t help much either since, while he beats Kratos in a straight fight (one of the few to do this),
He's not overwhelmingly stronger than the Ghost of Sparta and wins the fight by getting out of reach and wearing Kratos down with his magical attacks (if the boss fight is to be believed). Kratos even draws blood from Charon and slices through him with his own scythe during the QTE!

Spoiler: Lifting Strength

So currently Kratos is Class G for this. I’ve got no problem with it but there’s no calc and we seem to have just assumed the yield so I think this should have been calced before it’s being placed on the page. Again I don’t think there’s a canon weight to it at all (and if there is I can’t recall and it’s not listed anywhere).

Proposed Revisions​

​

Spoiler: Attack Potency

Kratos​

To put it bluntly the current reasoning for 7-B Kratos is whack as **** and we need to either calculate feats to actually justify it or just flat out downgrade the characters. If it helps, Kratos is this tall in the Greek games.

Considering the above reasoning is mostly whack I’d point out that we should probably try to calculate the feats Kratos does such as

• Smashing through stone walls (the Multiplayer opening gives us a size for this)
• Kratos smashing the Manticore through the snake at Delphi
• Pulverizes this wood
• Smashes through this wall
• Kratos smashing pillars in battle with Pollux and Castor
• Kratos smashing the brothers through the floor (YMMV)
• Aegean’s hands smashing through this roof
• Aegean’s hand smash building
• Kratos Being smashed through three walls by an Infected Hand
• Kratos smashing into Delos’ Lantern
• The GPE of Alecto’s Kaiju mode (we see a full model to give an idea of proportions)
• Cyclops smashes a large door
• The GPE of the Basilisk boi
• The GPE of the Hydra heads (this could be especially good if we mean the King head)
• The GPE of Pandora’s Guardian (proportions here)
• Kratos seemingly pulverizing this rock
• Persephone sends this rock flying (we can also see she shatters it here)
• Icarus (Who is likely weaker than Demigod Kratos) survives being slammed through boulders and a wall

I’m not sure what any of these reliably yield but I’m assuming somewhere in Tier 8; potentially High 8-C+ or higher and, considering how often these types of feats come up, this seems the most consistent. Alecto’s GPE could be much higher (I can see 8-A to Low 7-C) but that depends on consistency.

Now Tier 7 Kratos will still live on; he’s still got statements of Typhoon level Magics via the Ice of Poseidon and that is valid. The issue is it would just be through that attack rather than his physical stats; so we’d be looking at it being noted as a “higher with magic” in his tiering

Redeemed Warrior​

The Warrior also needs to be downgraded but since he’s weaker then Kratos he wouldn't scale. The problem here is most of the Warrior’s feats are gameplay based but we have some feats for them. He does luckily have several feats we could use; the executions could be helpful and we visibly see him tear apart Satyrs and other monsters which would likely scale him above 9-A and Icarus (as an insane old man) would likely be somewhat inferior to the Warriors of the Gods so we could upscale the Multiplayer character from that as well. There’s also one map (The Tower of Delphi) that involves him battling the Manticore which means we could use this feat the Manticore survives in its battle with Kratos (note I’m not arguing at all that we scale the Warrior to Kratos).

I haven’t played Ascension’s multiplayer myself but if anyone else knows of good feats let me know. I can recall the Skorpius fight (which is baller) on the Labyrinth of Daedalus map which could be solid if we use the beast’s GPE and the monster can casually smash through large wooden walls in the Labyrinth which could be neat to calc (both of these feats at the very least would support RE being >> 9-A characters).

But don’t worry; the Warrior can still get higher with Weapons and Magic. The latter for reasons we’ve already discussed such as the ability to conjure large ice spikes like Kratos’ abilities but the former for him acquiring weapons such as the Blade of Artemis

​

Spoiler: LS Stuff

Kratos​

So basically Kratos has tons of feats which could line up with him being Class M (outside of just calcing the snake)

• Lifts giant block
• Flips a street
• Pulls the Basilisk
• Pulls this structure
• Pulls the Hydra head
• Legpresses statue
• Pushes giant T
• Holds this piller a Cyclops tried to crush him with
• Pulls down this pillar
• Pushes the boulder

Redeemed Warrior​

Basically the Warrior would just upscale based off Class K from these basic ass Spartans. You could also calc the chains he snaps or the weight of the hammers he has to actually wield to help add some consistency.

For a sec expected something major for gow 1-4
O well i agree with this revision
Might be able to get some feats calced from my friends from discord but i have problems copy pasting in the blog for some reason

 

[chosen]

And let me be clear, 9-A Kratos hurts my soul more than any gutting from the Claws of Hades

Good thing is an fodder version of kratos

 

[Hellbeast]

For a sec expected something major for gow 1-4

This actually covers GOWI
Dad of Boi Kratos has his own huge revision

O well i agree with this revision

TY

Might be able to get some feats calced from my friends from discord but i have problems copy pasting in the blog for some reason

We've got a good amount done but I'd appreciate it if you could get the GPE stuff calced (since those are probably the best)

 

[chosen]

Dad of Boi Kratos has his own huge revision

Downgrade or him vs his geek self stuff?

 

[KieranH10]

Sorry I'm late

Looking through, this looks OK to me too. Hellbeast makes a lot of sense here.

 

[Hellbeast]

Downgrade or him vs his geek self stuff?

Mostly just adding tons of new hax for him from the optional equipment he can get

Looking through, this looks OK to me too. Hellbeast makes a lot of sense here.

thank you

 

[chosen]

Mostly just adding tons of new hax for him from the optional equipment he can get


thank you

We've got a good amount done but I'd appreciate it if you could get the GPE stuff calced (since those are probably the best)

Ok get the robot goat one calced (forget the name) and got 3,659,159,475.61 J of energy just for existing pretty much
Imma need to show the whole gpe discussion
Are you Okay with sending an imgur. Link with it here?

 

[Hellbeast]

Could you post the calc in a blog so we can evaluate it

 

[chosen]

Could you post the calc in a blog so we can evaluate it

Nvm it got recalc ed to Small building but yeah imma try to post it
If not imma give you what to send and please put in a blog

 

[chosen]

Yeah nvm imma just wait to see if one of My gow mf revision succeds
He argues narativelly Small building ascensionn kratos Doesn't make sense

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Wokistan @ByAsura @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this thread please?

 

[Ogbunabali]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I agree with the OP.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah nvm imma just wait to see if one of My gow mf revision

?

He argues narativelly Small building ascensionn kratos Doesn't make sense

He’s welcome to argue that here

Nvm it got recalc ed to Small building but yeah imma try to post it

Sweet when you do, link it here
Assuming the math holds up that means we’ve got 16 9-A feats

 

[DaReaperMan]

Assuming the math holds up that means we’ve got 16 9-A feats

9-A Kratos huh? I have matches to make...

I agree with the OP by the by

 

[Hellbeast]

Kratos can probably get matches with literally any AC protagonist or Master Chief which is kinda neat