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So...? Gil would open GoB right behind the real Satan and get him before he can dodge.
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Gilgamesh vs 666:Satan
- Thread starter Sir_Ovens
- Start date
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Without using SNI to know which one is real? Not likely
Plus, you know... mind reading. Satan would know Gil is about to do that, and once again use clones to take the hits for him.
Plus, you know... mind reading. Satan would know Gil is about to do that, and once again use clones to take the hits for him.
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@Monarch
You seem to be under the impression that Gil can only chain up one target at once.
This is patently false. Gilgamesh has chained up hundreds of weapons from his own Gate of Babylon and threw them back at their targets in his much weaker child form.
You seem to be under the impression that Gil can only chain up one target at once.
This is patently false. Gilgamesh has chained up hundreds of weapons from his own Gate of Babylon and threw them back at their targets in his much weaker child form.
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And Satan can make hundreds of clones anywhere around him instantly to block them. I'm aware Gil can fire multiple chains.
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How exactly does Satan's cloning work? If they just appear next to him, it's useless. If they take his place and he appears somewhere else, then it could be useful for a while, until Gil gets tired of it and activates SNI. Then it's game over. Also you seem to think that activating SNI takes time, which is not true at all. Gil constantly keeps it in a restrained state normally, all he has to do to activate it at full capabitlity is stop holding it back. So it activates pretty much instantly.
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Satan was fighting Jin, and at somepoint during the fight Satan suddenly switched with his clone and Jin didn't realise until he killed the clone and saw Satan clones all around him. So summoning 1000 clones at once is going to give him the opportunity to mix things up and confuse Gil
And again, mind reading and power mimicry give Satan (superior versions of) both GoB and SNI, so...
And again, mind reading and power mimicry give Satan (superior versions of) both GoB and SNI, so...
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That is quite the literal no limits fallacy right there. You said yourself, its been shown to bind 100s of weapons. That's its limit. So Satan's clones can still take the hits for him. He could even surround himself with his clones and use them as shields to stop the chains from being able to reach him. Satan created his quadrillion clones before MFTL+ Jin could react. He needs less than a second of not being hit by Enkidu to get those clones.Reppuzan said:
Again, he cannot copy the Gate of Babylon since it requires the key.
Gil brought out that key once in his entire showing in F/SN and F/Z, and that was to use Ea, not GoB. If there is an example of him saying he needs it to GoB elsewhere, please provide the evidence.
In addition, Satan's variations are not always superior.
Everything Satan has copied, apart from physical attacks and techniques like acupuncture and kick of the blue dragon, have been superior to their original. Han threw Mars, Satan threw Jupiter. Jin clones himself a hundred times, Satan clones himself 200 quadrillion
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@Monarch
I never said that was his limit. I just said he did bind hundreds of weapons. Gil still had plenty of chain to spare afterward.
The Gate of Babylon is explicitly meant to be opened by the key, as it's the key to Gil's treasury. Yes, he hasn't shown the need to pull it out every time he needs the GoB, but the fact of the matter is that his ownership of it is what makes Gil's Noble Phantasm possible.
In case you still aren't convinced, here's the official description:
"A key-like sword that connects to the "Golden Capital". The spatial connection with the treasury allows for easy access to the items within."
The ability to open the gate is tied to the key and not to Gil himself.
Dae-Wi was struggling with the limitations of a human body while Satan wasn't. Jin was straining from fighting the other gods of the Heavenly Realm while Satan entered Phase III and had a power boost from being near the sun at the time.
I never said that was his limit. I just said he did bind hundreds of weapons. Gil still had plenty of chain to spare afterward.
The Gate of Babylon is explicitly meant to be opened by the key, as it's the key to Gil's treasury. Yes, he hasn't shown the need to pull it out every time he needs the GoB, but the fact of the matter is that his ownership of it is what makes Gil's Noble Phantasm possible.
In case you still aren't convinced, here's the official description:
"A key-like sword that connects to the "Golden Capital". The spatial connection with the treasury allows for easy access to the items within."
The ability to open the gate is tied to the key and not to Gil himself.
Dae-Wi was struggling with the limitations of a human body while Satan wasn't. Jin was straining from fighting the other gods of the Heavenly Realm while Satan entered Phase III and had a power boost from being near the sun at the time.
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Satan could still just dismiss the clones that have been trapped and summon more. He create 200 quadrillion clones before Jin could react. He needs less than a millisecond of not being hit to summon 200 quadrillion clones, and that "plenty of chain to spare" won't be nearly enough to catch them all.
May I see the evidence showing GoB as explicitly needing and being meant to be opened by the key? Perhaps that was true when Gil was alive. But he is a Heroic Spirit now, and GoB is his noble phantasm, his signature move, and he doesn't need to pull out the key to activate it. Satan should have no trouble copying it.
This is an entirely possible reason, but we don't know for certain that it is true. All we know is that every power based ability Satan has copied has been superior to the original. That is what we work with.
And even if it isn't stronger than the original, all of Archer's projections are 1 rank down from the original, and they were still enough to block Gil's blade spam. Satan won't have a problem on that end.
May I see the evidence showing GoB as explicitly needing and being meant to be opened by the key? Perhaps that was true when Gil was alive. But he is a Heroic Spirit now, and GoB is his noble phantasm, his signature move, and he doesn't need to pull out the key to activate it. Satan should have no trouble copying it.
This is an entirely possible reason, but we don't know for certain that it is true. All we know is that every power based ability Satan has copied has been superior to the original. That is what we work with.
And even if it isn't stronger than the original, all of Archer's projections are 1 rank down from the original, and they were still enough to block Gil's blade spam. Satan won't have a problem on that end.
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@Monarch
It was hardly less than a millisecond, since Mo-Ri gaped in horror as he watched the clones grow out of other clones.
I've posted the Gate of Babylon evidence above, but in case you missed it:
"Gate of Babylon: King's Treasure: A key-like sword that connects to the "Golden Capital". The spatial connection with the treasury allows for easy access to the items within."
The Noble Phantasm is the key, which opens the door to the treasury. Not the other way around.
We know for a fact that Dae-Wi was straining to control his power at all, and pulling Mars was a complete accident. It was explicitly stated that Dae-Wi's body was not meant to handle a god's power, thus his lack of fine control.
It was hardly less than a millisecond, since Mo-Ri gaped in horror as he watched the clones grow out of other clones.
I've posted the Gate of Babylon evidence above, but in case you missed it:
"Gate of Babylon: King's Treasure: A key-like sword that connects to the "Golden Capital". The spatial connection with the treasury allows for easy access to the items within."
The Noble Phantasm is the key, which opens the door to the treasury. Not the other way around.
We know for a fact that Dae-Wi was straining to control his power at all, and pulling Mars was a complete accident. It was explicitly stated that Dae-Wi's body was not meant to handle a god's power, thus his lack of fine control.
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They are both MFTL+ so it was probably less than that from a normal person's perspective.
Ok, thank you. Evidence that he needs the key. Understood. Any reason he can't copy SNI?
I was under the impression that his lack of control was in him trying and almost failing to keep Mars from actually colliding with earth, not from him pulling Mars. The evidence we have shows that Satan's copied powers are better. That's what I'm using.
Ok, thank you. Evidence that he needs the key. Understood. Any reason he can't copy SNI?
I was under the impression that his lack of control was in him trying and almost failing to keep Mars from actually colliding with earth, not from him pulling Mars. The evidence we have shows that Satan's copied powers are better. That's what I'm using.
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Speed is equalised so they are both MFTL+. Point is, Satan still only needs a moment of protection from his first set of clones to make the rest
I know you didn't say it, I wasn't trying to refute or anything, I was legit asking. I didn't see it in your first post, sorry.
So Satan also knows exactly what he needs to do to win, which in this case is creating clones to take the Enkidu for him, then using the moment of time gained to create more clones who can block other Enkidu and GoB spam, then gravity crushing Gil, or creating a clone behind Gil and one-shotting him.
I know you didn't say it, I wasn't trying to refute or anything, I was legit asking. I didn't see it in your first post, sorry.
So Satan also knows exactly what he needs to do to win, which in this case is creating clones to take the Enkidu for him, then using the moment of time gained to create more clones who can block other Enkidu and GoB spam, then gravity crushing Gil, or creating a clone behind Gil and one-shotting him.
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I just realised that Satan has never been shown to copy passive abilities. So copying SNI is out too.
Switching back to Gil for reasons above.
Switching back to Gil for reasons above.
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Okayyyy, so can the match be added now? Since it's concluded and nearly unanimous in Gil's favor.
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1 day grace period needed, but then yeah
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Does Gil have the best win loss ratio of all characters?
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@Gargoyle He probably does, at 4 wins and 0 losses after this fight.
Also, voting Gilgamesh due to reasons given.
Also, voting Gilgamesh due to reasons given.
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- Thread starter
- #60
Kharn vs Gil looks promising...
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Because the only thing more hax than a visual novel is Warhammer 40K lol
