- 765
- 232
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Gilgamesh(Fate) vs Aiwass(Toaru)
- Thread starter Churronzon
- Start date
- 4,472
- 3,018
Aiwass is High 1-C and Gil is 1-C, Aiwass stomps.
- 765
- 232
- Thread starter
- #3
Doesn't Gil strike first due to literally immeasurable combat speed advantage?
Aiwass' speed is unknown in the Pure World, and in the surface world he just exists semi-everywhere.
Aiwass' speed is unknown in the Pure World, and in the surface world he just exists semi-everywhere.
- 4,472
- 3,018
It doesn't matter, Aiwass exists in a higher dimension, Gil might as well not exist from his perspective.
- 765
- 232
- 4,472
- 3,018
You do not really understand. To a higher dimension, all things in a lower dimension are beyond infinitely inferior. The hax of lower dimensions can't affect higher dimensions, and lower dimensions can't resist the hax of higher dimensions either.
If Gil and Aiwass where on the same level, then you could argue about whether Enuma Elish could do something. But they are on such vastly different levels of power, that one has no hope against the other.
If Gil and Aiwass where on the same level, then you could argue about whether Enuma Elish could do something. But they are on such vastly different levels of power, that one has no hope against the other.
- 4,472
- 3,018
This is simply a mismatch, it would be best if you found Gil or Aiwass a different character to fight.
- 527
- 314
Oof, yeah
Basically this
Basically this
- 18,393
- 14,311
This is stomp lol
- 765
- 232
- Thread starter
- #10
Yeah, I was not aware higher tiers automatically grant immunities to hax from lower dimensions.
Small nitpick; Aiwass exists in the lowest layer of reality.
It's confusing since no one in Toaru even has higher dimensional existence or manipulation listed in their profiles, nor even implied to exist in the 4th-11th dimensions in the story. Some characters like Coronzon do originally exist in higher planes of existence however.
- 765
- 232
- Thread starter
- #11
According to this post, MGs should be High 1-C in stats only and thus not be immune to lower dimension hax unless I'm misinterpreting it. By current standards, I don't think Aiwass is considered anything but High 1-C in stats as well, but I could be wrong. If he saw MGs as "fiction", I'm p sure they wouldn't be grouped in the same tier.
It's worth reiterating that none of them currently have HDE to gain hax immunities.
- 2,764
- 397
Yes, that is true. Higher-dimensional stats does not automatically grant higher-dimensional existence. As long as they have the same dimensional existence, the match can happen
- 2,764
- 397
Looking at the profile, doesn't seem to be, but the profile may be outdated, so idk
- 18,393
- 14,311
I don't see how this discredit the stompness rn.
- 2,918
- 2,137
it's outdated af like any other toaru profile
- 2,764
- 397
Gil's hax could actually affect Aiwass, so it isn't a stomp (I mean, look at the size of his wall of powers and abilities lol). But idk how the hax works, so...
- 527
- 314
It's outdated and magic gods probably should have higher d existence from their point in sephiroth tree.
But they are still untouchable due to high 1-C probability. As for aiwass, it's not in the profile so
But they are still untouchable due to high 1-C probability. As for aiwass, it's not in the profile so
- 2,764
- 397
I don't think potency of probability manipulation is determined via the tier
- 527
- 314
It is passive high 1C probability
- 18,393
- 14,311
You still need evidence for resisting high tier hax lol.
- 527
- 314
For clarification their magic is what is also responsible for their tier and the probability is part of it. So yeah, that is the probability potency
- 18,393
- 14,311
Hence, I said, I don't see how this discredit stompness.
- 765
- 232
- Thread starter
- #24
How tf do my threads keep going back to the topic of this probability manipulation that didn't prevent them from being killed by a dog.
Are we planning on removing probability manipulation from their Zombie nerf key? Until that happens, their probability manipulation isn't as potent as advertised.
Are we planning on removing probability manipulation from their Zombie nerf key? Until that happens, their probability manipulation isn't as potent as advertised.
- 18,393
- 14,311
You can do downgrade CRT at anytime, but till then, the argument can still be used.
- 2,918
- 2,137
Because the probability of your threads becoming stomps are 100%
- 527
- 314
Cause that's for magic gods. I mean if aiwass is supposed to be able to destroy all of them he can deal with it.
No. Because it's not treated as the same potency or passive. I asked in the discussion thread. Only treated this way in true form. Whether the probability gets removed from that key, up to what they see ig
- 765
- 232
- Thread starter
- #28
Lmfao, yeah I see it now. That's crazy. So we rationalize it as their probability manipulation stops being passive or as potent even though they're still High 1-C.
I just remembered this isn't relevant for this thread as Aiwass doesn't have this probability manip
- 765
- 232
- Thread starter
- #29
Where in the Sephiroth do you think they're located? They're all still residing in the surface world. You need to discard your flesh body and become energy to access higher realms, which puts you at higher risk and also makes it so phase manipulation does literally nothing(as phases don't exist outside the surface of the Four Worlds).
Unless you mean Dion's 8=3 ranking of Binah or w/e, but I still don't see how either of these things relate to mathematical dimensional existence.
- 527
- 314
Coronzon mentions how they are in a state leaving their bodies behind because of their place in the tree. But judging from what she said, half way? They reach a point their existences are too much for the world. But it's hinted towards higher existence. Where the entire tree leads though, guess we'll never know.
But yeah the probability irrelevant for aiwass. All wk is that he's meant to overpower them
But yeah the probability irrelevant for aiwass. All wk is that he's meant to overpower them
- 2,764
- 397
Gilgamesh has resistance to probability manipulation
- 2,764
- 397
Passive is pretty relevant, but why should probability be determined via tier of the character?
- 18,393
- 14,311
high 1-C resistance?
- 2,764
- 397
Explain why probability potency should be determined via the physical stats of the character
- 18,393
- 14,311
Ever heard of "Hax of tier" or no? There is also tier for Hax, unless you are saying their hax is not high 1-C, rather what?
- 2,764
- 397
I'm asking, why should probability manipulation potency be determined via the physical stats of the character. Because I don't recall many hax's potency such as this, being determined via tier. So please, explain why
- 18,393
- 14,311
It is common in fiction and debating, if you have a "high 1-C hax", does not matter if you have resistance to that said hax, as long as it is not in the same tier, higher D tier hax bypass the resistance.
I don't need really to explain much, this is how it works.
I don't need really to explain much, this is how it works.
- 2,764
- 397
I still do not see how that justifies anything. First off, what is probability manipulation? It is the ability to affect the chances of something happening. So, what does this generally have to do with attack potency? And looking at the probability manipulation profile, it says "At a high level, it can be used to make things that would be completely impossible otherwise certainties." So, the level of probability, or rather, the potency of it, is determined via how drastic of an alteration you can make to the odds. For example, making a 100% chance against your favor into a 100% chance in your favor is more potent than making a 0% chance into a 1% chance in your favor
- 18,393
- 14,311
Ay? You are questioning how hax tiers works, rn? Hax tier is always on the same tier as in others unless verse stated otherwise or feats showed otherwise.
I mean you can look at your character for example, he has 11D Sealing, how would you define this? Idk what to discuss here. High 1-C probability manipulation bypass low 1-C resistance.
I mean you can look at your character for example, he has 11D Sealing, how would you define this? Idk what to discuss here. High 1-C probability manipulation bypass low 1-C resistance.
- 2,764
- 397
But as shown on the page, its potency does not follow that of the tiering system's levels. You can go to the probability page, and it basically says the level of probability manipulation is based off of how great of a change you can make to the chances
