Gilgamesh (8D) vs super Karna(8D)

[CrystalValley]

anyway count my vote for Gilgamesh. (we're counting right?)

 

[Makenai]

can you direct me to where it says the Kiara being stated to be a of a lower scale than her moon self is not her complete self it is referencing? because Goetia quite frankly would've screwed over everything a lot easier if he was actually stronger than the Kiara of CCC. the Universe of Record is a big deal and not being in it or from it seriously affects power levels.

It was on her profile mats.

Also on FGO Seraph event BB mention that Kiara is True Daemon so there's that and what's this the universe of record thing? Zepar alone can make Kiara see through the Multiverse and connect them.

i'm talking about Goetia's physical stats.

Then thats mean Super Karna can negate Ten Crowns.


Also why mention Seventh Holy Scripture? Did Gilgamesh ever use it? Even if Gil have it why we assume Gilgamesh will use it there while he never use it when he was screwed by Tiamat and BB? Gil having it alone already questionable let alone know it exist inside his treasury.

Don't forget that this Karna is far more skilled than when he faced Vlad in Romania. Karna trained in hyperbolic time chamber after all, him outskilled Gil is a matter of course.


I vote for Karna.

 

[Adrianelloxd]

I'm voting for Gil.

 

[CrystalValley]

It was on her profile mats.

her incomplete one?

Also on FGO Seraph event BB mention that Kiara is True Daemon so there's that and what's this the universe of record thing? Zepar alone can make Kiara see through the Multiverse and connect them.

the Universe of Record is the reality the Far Side of the Moon takes places in that is a different reality with laws that explicitly are stated to work differently from the Universe of Observation. all of the crazy multiversal shit, ignoring the Root comes from that place. everything in the Universe of Observation is more limited, since the Universe of Record has concepts take precedence over real numbers and so things from there are much more powerful.

Then thats mean Super Karna can negate Ten Crowns.

physically stats or potency of any kind is the last thing negating Ten Crowns or any hax worth their salt.

Also why mention Seventh Holy Scripture? Did Gilgamesh ever use it?

we don't know since him fighting seriously at his peak in CCC took place in gameplay only. but he does have it.

Even if Gil have it why we assume Gilgamesh will use it there while he never use it when he was screwed by Tiamat and BB?

Tiamat has no concept of death (and no amount of cosmology anything will change the requirements to kill her). but if we're going by profile logic, PIS or CIS. or the fact Gilgamesh already knew Ritsuka and the rest would defeat Tiamat. regardless, we know he has it and he would clearly use it against someone whose only option of winning is that.

BB should have everything Gilgamesh does and more via the Moon Cell. and even if we go by this site and that 1-A overrules all abilities for some reason, BB had immeasurable speed while normal Gilgamesh had finite. hitting her was simply out of the question until he obtained his new form.

Gil having it alone already questionable let alone know it exist inside his treasury.

him having it and it existing inside his treasury are the same thing. and no it is not questionable.

Don't forget that this Karna is far more skilled than when he faced Vlad in Romania. Karna trained in hyperbolic time chamber after all, him outskilled Gil is a matter of course.

SNI does not care about this and renders it irrelevant, especially with GoB portal abuse.

 

[Zencha9]

my boy karna is losing

curse thee

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ten Crowns falls under authority resistance, and Karna has more layers then both Gil and BB in authority.

 

[CrystalValley]

Ten Crowns falls under authority resistance, and Karna has more layers then both Gil and BB in authority.

sorry, we were talking off profile from earlier. guess I should tell him to take that stuff to private with me and stick to the other stuff.

what's your vote btw? Karna I assume still? just trying to keep track since I think a 1-C match actually being added would be neat regardless of who takes it.

@Zencha9 is that a vote or just a comment on how things are going so far? i have a feeling the votes are about to be tied so this could go either way still in terms of who gets the most votes.

 

[Makenai]

her incomplete one?

She was never complete.

the Universe of Record is the reality the Far Side of the Moon takes places in that is a different reality with laws that explicitly are stated to work differently from the Universe of Observation. all of the crazy multiversal shit, ignoring the Root comes from that place. everything in the Universe of Observation is more limited, since the Universe of Record has concepts take precedence over real numbers and so things from there are much more powerful.

So what's makes her stronger than Goetia there?

physically stats or potency of any kind is the last thing negating Ten Crowns or any hax worth their salt.

I don't get how Vishnu and Shiva authority is inferior to Ten Crowns.

Tiamat has no concept of death (and no amount of cosmology anything will change the requirements to kill her). but if we're going by profile logic, PIS or CIS. or the fact Gilgamesh already knew Ritsuka and the rest would defeat Tiamat. regardless, we know he has it and he would clearly use it against someone whose only option of winning is that.

1-A spear cannot kill someone 1-C just because she doesn't have concept of death? IIRC this seventh holy scripture killed vampire's soul who is somehow connected to the root? I dunno this doesn't seems like a good argument when you have contradiction like this.

SNI does not care about this and renders it irrelevant, especially with GoB portal abuse.

Maybe you forgot that Arjuna have Clairvoyance EX.

 

[CrystalValley]

She was never complete.

then why are you bringing up an incomplete Kiara from GO being inferior to Goetia like that's something impressive?

So what's makes her stronger than Goetia there?

because she's actually multiversal and scales to some actual immeasurable characters, since she can drop everyone in CCC including Amaterasu from the Extra series in the Universe of Record, since it says only Saver can stand up to her.

actually let's stop this part right here. we're arguing off profile stuff right now. take it to my message wall or something and let's stick to the profiles to debate her since it may count as derailing.

1-A spear cannot kill someone 1-C just because she doesn't have concept of death?

i was talking about when not using this tiering system or site and then offered the other alternatives to fit within this. but yeah sticking to this site, PIS, CIS, or Gilgamesh already knowing Tiamat would've been defeated are answers to this. and if we're going off profiles, Gilgamesh has it whether any of us personally agree or disagree.

IIRC this seventh holy scripture killed vampire's soul who is somehow connected to the root? I dunno this doesn't seems like a good argument when you have contradiction like this.

it killed Roa's soul that has gone to the Root multiple times.

Maybe you forgot that Arjuna have Clairvoyance EX.

we're talking about Karna here. did he out skill Arjuna? i don't think that was ever really something mentioned. and Arjuna doesn't have the weird crazy means to hit Karna with an insta kill weapon like Gilgamesh.

 

[HyperZero95]

Gilgamesh FRA.

 

[Makenai]

i was talking about when not using this tiering system or site and then offered the other alternatives to fit within this. but yeah sticking to this site, PIS, CIS, or Gilgamesh already knowing Tiamat would've been defeated are answers to this. and if we're going off profiles, Gilgamesh has it whether any of us personally agree or disagree.

Wether its CIS or PIS or its not as strong as people think it is.

it killed Roa's soul that has gone to the Root multiple times.

So how this soul scale to Root? Does the root provide some sort of protection to the soul?

we're talking about Karna here. did he out skill Arjuna? i don't think that was ever really something mentioned. and Arjuna doesn't have the weird crazy means to hit Karna with an insta kill weapon like Gilgamesh.

Yeah, exactly we're talking about how Karna can kill Arjuna despite his Clairvoyance EX and if you ask me who's superior in skill between Arjuna Alter and Gilgamesh i'd say Arjuna Alter, that insta kill weapon doesn't seem to homing or sure hit how's Gil handle Karna's fire that could burns concept? Actually can't Karna just wrap himself with fire and burn everything Gil throws at him? After all he did it many times in Apocrypha.

 

[CrystalValley]

Wether its CIS or PIS or its not as strong as people think it is

or Gilgamesh already knowing how things would play out.

So how this soul scale to Root? Does the root provide some sort of protection to the soul?

going off this website? it's 1-A because going to the Root is 1-A and they say his soul resist some of the stuff in the Root, though in reality it's a bit more complicated than that.

Yeah, exactly we're talking about how Karna can kill Arjuna despite his Clairvoyance EX and if you ask me who's superior in skill between Arjuna Alter and Gilgamesh i'd say Arjuna Alter,

how good is his Clairvoyance compared to SNI? because information on it is pretty vague from memory. and Arjuna does not have something that can one shot Karna immediately that can be spawned point blank next to him from any side while also throwing a ton of other weapons from all sides as well as distractions while blasting him with Ea. Karna has too much to get through to actually beat Gilgamesh, who he can't even instantly kill.

that insta kill weapon doesn't seem to homing or sure hit

you should scroll up until you see the CCC pictures. it doesn't matter considering Gilgamesh can open GoB portals at point blank from all sides. Karna has no answer for this.

how's Gil handle Karna's fire that could burns concept? Actually can't Karna just wrap himself with fire and burn everything Gil throws at him?

the Seventh is Outerversal, so Karna's flames aren't doing anything. and this is assuming that is Karna's first action in the fight.

to just put a brief example of how hard it is for Karna to win this.

fight starts.

Gilgamesh's unrestricted SNI let's him know that the only way to kill Karna is with the Seventh Holy Scripture and tells him the exact future path to take to ensure it lands.

Karna is vaguely faster than Gilgamesh, but not by much since there is no evidence of this.

Gilgamesh summons GoB portals from all sides on Karna, distracting him with a ton of weapons and even Enuma Elish.

during all of that, Gilgamesh shoots the Seventh Holy Scripture from a GoB portal directly beneath Karna's feet and instantly kills him.

Karna has to get through GoB portals shooting endless weapons at him at point blank while dodging repeated shots from the Seventh getting launched out of GoB at random directions in the middle of all of those other weapons while also dealing with Ea.

he is not doing anything. he cannot reach Gilgamesh and kill him before getting hit with the Seventh. and it would likely hit him the very first time.

so until Karna can close the distance between him and Gilgamesh, which still doesn't guarantee anything since the pics I sent show that Gilgamesh can keep spamming GoB in close range combat, he cannot kill effectively hit him or do anything. and Karna is not closing the distance while dodging repeated 1-A attacks being launched at random angles at point blank range from a guy that knows every move he will ever make before it happens, along with all of the other distractions GoB produces that would divert his attention from the Seventh. there is a reason Gilgamesh is the strongest Heroic Spirit.

 

[MrBallins]

Even Kiara who absorbs mooncell admit that she's weaker than the likes of Goetia.

That was FGO Kiara who is of a lesser scale than CCC Kiara as per her mats

Nega Saver A

The fate of the beast who tried to bring salvation only to her own world, while possessing the qualifications to be a messiah (Saver).

Every skill possessed by the Saver and Ruler class is nullified, targets with magic stat not exceeding A rank are charmed with a 300% probability and the effect of buffs cast by Kiara are increased by 200%.

Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III, they say that she had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill.

That aside, Junao was also weakened by the time Super Karna fought him. He does have Surya's armour though iirc, so I wonder how that will interact with stuff from the Moon Cell

He is also much weaker if not tied to his LB's Quixotic Tree iirc

 

[Zencha9]

@Zencha9 is that a vote or just a comment on how things are going so far? i have a feeling the votes are about to be tied so this could go either way still in terms of who gets the most votes

Nah im just screwing around since i love karna
Can't decide since i haven't read the full convo above and im rusty since i haven't touched nasu related works in a while so don't mind me

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Nah im just screwing around since i love karna

Based.

 

[MrBallins]

I just noticed that I forgot to vote

I am voting for the Gil Gil Machine FRA

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Only in vsbw that Gil can beat Super Karna, i seen in other platform that Super Karna beat the f*** out of Full Power Gil, but i think this is come to the different perspective

Anyway Gil FRA

 

[CrystalValley]

Only in vsbw that Gil can beat Super Karna, i seen in other platform that Super Karna beat the f*** out of Full Power Gil, but i think this is come to the different perspective

Anyway Gil FRA

most people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to Nasuverse (but honestly most things in general really). without VS Battles, this becomes unwinnable spite against Karna. this place really helps him.

like some people think full power Gilgamesh is just normal Gilgamesh that is serious and think all of his CCC feats are in a virtual computer that aren't real. just let that sink in.

 

[MrBallins]

Only in vsbw that Gil can beat Super Karna, i seen in other platform that Super Karna beat the f*** out of Full Power Gil, but i think this is come to the different perspective

Not really, CCC Gil just has better all around feats. The only thing impressive about Super Karna is keeping up with a nerfed Godjuna

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Wonder what Gil vs Morgan gonna be? And in the case if you wondering why Morgan instead Godjuna, Gil vs Godjuna thread was exist and well......that thing is such of atrocity

 

[Rez]

Gil brings out ea and wins. Karna can't do jackshit.

Wonder what Gil vs Morgan gonna be? And in the case if you wondering why Morgan instead Godjuna, Gil vs Godjuna thread was exist and well......that thing is such of atrocity

Haven't read lostbelt 6 but what makes Morgan stronger than the likes of Godjuna or Karna

 

[MrBallins]

Haven't read lostbelt 6 but what makes Morgan stronger than the likes of Godjuna or Karna

She has more raw power than Zeus and some hax, but was not that impressive overall compared to them. Iirc she doesn't have anything equal to his conceptual destruction, for example

CCC Gil should wipe her

 

[Regidian]

She has more raw power than Zeus and some hax, but was not that impressive overall compared to them. Iirc she doesn't have anything equal to his conceptual destruction, for example

CCC Gil should wipe her

She tell to be stronger than them (zeus and arjuna alter), she have hax fairy (who can just use all magecraft ) and have the authority counterpart of fairy since she is a Great mother fairy. And she does have some conceptual destruction tho.
Otherwise she would never tell to be able to kill Vortigen

Even more she can just bfr them to the past.

 

[Makenai]

or Gilgamesh already knowing how things would play out.

So he let Uruk fall during Tiamat's invasion despite having a weapot to kill her? Doesn't sounds like Gil for me.

going off this website? it's 1-A because going to the Root is 1-A and they say his soul resist some of the stuff in the Root, though in reality it's a bit more complicated than that.

Please explain it here, because based on what i read since everything will return to Root after death but Roa's soul is different because his soul have conciousness this allows him to choose where he reincarnates to and inherited all of his memories, as far as i know there's no 1-A feat there.

how good is his Clairvoyance compared to SNI? because information on it is pretty vague from memory. and Arjuna does not have something that can one shot Karna immediately that can be spawned point blank next to him from any side while also throwing a ton of other weapons from all sides as well as distractions while blasting him with Ea. Karna has too much to get through to actually beat Gilgamesh, who he can't even instantly kill.

Better than SNI, because Gil's SNI only allows him through all "Possible Future" while Arjuna's allows him to see the "Future" if you read the recent Glasses event in FGO a monster there stole Arjuna's Clairvoyance to fight against us.

you should scroll up until you see the CCC pictures. it doesn't matter considering Gilgamesh can open GoB portals at point blank from all sides. Karna has no answer for this.

Except he can, if you look at Arjuna's Attack animation and LB 4 final battle Arjuna can do the same with his multiple Pashupata.

the Seventh is Outerversal, so Karna's flames aren't doing anything. and this is assuming that is Karna's first action in the fight.

to just put a brief example of how hard it is for Karna to win this.

fight starts.

Gilgamesh's unrestricted SNI let's him know that the only way to kill Karna is with the Seventh Holy Scripture and tells him the exact future path to take to ensure it lands.

Karna is vaguely faster than Gilgamesh, but not by much since there is no evidence of this.

Gilgamesh summons GoB portals from all sides on Karna, distracting him with a ton of weapons and even Enuma Elish.

during all of that, Gilgamesh shoots the Seventh Holy Scripture from a GoB portal directly beneath Karna's feet and instantly kills him.

Karna has to get through GoB portals shooting endless weapons at him at point blank while dodging repeated shots from the Seventh getting launched out of GoB at random directions in the middle of all of those other weapons while also dealing with Ea.

he is not doing anything. he cannot reach Gilgamesh and kill him before getting hit with the Seventh. and it would likely hit him the very first time.

so until Karna can close the distance between him and Gilgamesh, which still doesn't guarantee anything since the pics I sent show that Gilgamesh can keep spamming GoB in close range combat, he cannot kill effectively hit him or do anything. and Karna is not closing the distance while dodging repeated 1-A attacks being launched at random angles at point blank range from a guy that knows every move he will ever make before it happens, along with all of the other distractions GoB produces that would divert his attention from the Seventh. there is a reason Gilgamesh is the strongest Heroic Spirit

Except the Seventh isnt Outerversal, the Seventh is a Unicorn Horn, yes a fking Unicorn since Unicorn is said as a monster who devour soul they use unicorn's horn to disperse Roa's soul, even for argument sakes A Unicorn Horn hasil 1-A AP do you think a Unicorn's horn has 1-A durability? I think not, not in the slightest, after all there's many servants in fgo has smurf AP but squish durability.

Gil hasil no answer to Karna's fire, he can't defend against it or evade it due to massive skill gap and Shiva's fire that burn all of creatuon.

 

[CrystalValley]

So he let Uruk fall during Tiamat's invasion despite having a weapot to kill her? Doesn't sounds like Gil for me.

you do know that Uruk falls like that regardless of what he does with Ritsuka, right? that's just what happens in history even without Tiamat.

Please explain it here, because based on what i read since everything will return to Root after death but Roa's soul is different because his soul have conciousness this allows him to choose where he reincarnates to and inherited all of his memories, as far as i know there's no 1-A feat there.

this sites reasoning is basically that his soul can survive in the Root and resist its passive absorption and other hax so it is 1-A. holy scriptures like the Seventh also contain light from the Root and destroyed his soul

Better than SNI, because Gil's SNI only allows him through all "Possible Future" while Arjuna's allows him to see the "Future" if you read the recent Glasses event in FGO a monster there stole Arjuna's Clairvoyance to fight against us.

that's actually not better than SNI at all going off that description. that sounds like it just means Arjuna can see one future ahead of him, while Gilgamesh can see all possibilities, even in other timelines

Except he can, if you look at Arjuna's Attack animation and LB 4 final battle Arjuna can do the same with his multiple Pashupata.

that's not the same thing. he seals them in a sphere and slices it. Karna in theory could burst out of the sphere and also overpower the slice.

Except the Seventh isnt Outerversal,

except it is by the site's standards. you want to go off profile and be realistic? Gilgamesh is immune to everything Karna does and blitzes and blinks, erasing Karna. everyone in GO is powerless against him. Extra is on an entirely different level from anything else in Fate. but we're going by profiles here so the Seventh is Outerversal. its blade originally belonging to the horn of a unicorn means nothing when it was packed with holy scriptures.

Gil hasil no answer to Karna's fire, he can't defend against it or evade it due to massive skill gap and Shiva's fire that burn all of creatuon.

Karna will be dead before he can have a real shot at taking Gilgamesh down.

 

[God243]

I added the votes

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

She tell to be stronger than them (zeus and arjuna alter), she have hax fairy (who can just use all magecraft ) and have the authority counterpart of fairy since she is a Great mother fairy. And she does have some conceptual destruction tho.
Otherwise she would never tell to be able to kill Vortigen

Even more she can just bfr them to the past.

And yet the funny thing is that Vortigern admitted that he's not as strong as Morgan or even Melusine

 

[God243]

shouldn't this match be added?

 

[CrystalValley]

shouldn't this match be added?

there needs to be 7 votes with a gap of at least 3. Gil needs one more vote I think. don't know if the OP is allowed to vote but the rules don't seem to say they can't. then i think there's a grace period for like a day to see if any last minute opposition comes in.

i'm not really too active of a member here, so anyone can feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on anything regarding site rules.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

there needs to be 7 votes with a gap of at least 3. Gil needs one more vote I think. don't know if the OP is allowed to vote but the rules don't seem to say they can't. then i think there's a grace period for like a day to see if any last minute opposition comes in.

i'm not really too active of a member here, so anyone can feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on anything regarding site rules.

OP's vote can't be counted.

If you want one more vote you can count my vote for Gil.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

OP can vote actually

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Huh? I just found out, all this time everyone said that the OP couldn't vote

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It mainly because the mindset of avoiding and don't want to be looked as biased/spitful person

 

[God243]

we got 7 votes for Gilgamesh. so now we have to wait a few days from what I understand.

 

[CrystalValley]

we got 7 votes for Gilgamesh. so now we have to wait a few days from what I understand.

i think it's just 24 hours. not sure if you have to contact a mod to review everything though.

 

[Makenai]

you do know that Uruk falls like that regardless of what he does with Ritsuka, right? that's just what happens in history even without Tiamat

Did you seriously think that Alive Gilgamesh have Seventh?

this sites reasoning is basically that his soul can survive in the Root and resist its passive absorption and other hax so it is 1-A. holy scriptures like the Seventh also contain light from the Root and destroyed his soul

Please cite the source here.

except it is by the site's standards. you want to go off profile and be realistic? Gilgamesh is immune to everything Karna does and blitzes and blinks, erasing Karna. everyone in GO is powerless against him. Extra is on an entirely different level from anything else in Fate. but we're going by profiles here so the Seventh is Outerversal. its blade originally belonging to the horn of a unicorn means nothing when it was packed with holy scriptures.

No, lol, even if it does have 1-A attack it doesn't have 1-A durability, what do you mean packed by holy scripture? It is the horn that devour the soul not the scripture.

that's actually not better than SNI at all going off that description. that sounds like it just means Arjuna can see one future ahead of him, while Gilgamesh can see all possibilities, even in other timelines

Possibilities means he doesn't know which one is the true future it doesn't matter how many possibility he sees if he cannot see the true future its still inferior.

Karna will be dead before he can have a real shot at taking Gilgamesh down.

How so? Karna is massively outmatched Gil in terms of skill and it doesn't like he cannot shoot Gil with his fire which Gil has nothing to hide from it since his fire can erase everything.

 

[CrystalValley]

Did you seriously think that Alive Gilgamesh have Seventh?

alive? without the paradoxical things he gets from becoming a Heroic Spirit, probably not. but CCC Gilgamesh would.

Please cite the source here.

for the upgrades?

Nasuverse Revisions Part 2: Root Scaling

Summary Took a while, huh? Sorry, burned out+IRL business took precedence over CRTs. So, after the first thread went through mostly painlessly, next will be a closely related subject - scaling to the Root. It should be emphasized that none of this scales to physical statistics or raw AP (with...

vsbattles.com

Gilgamesh having it was always a thing, but a link I posted earlier confirms it.

No, lol, even if it does have 1-A attack it doesn't have 1-A durability,

you'd have to prove its durability doesn't scale.

what do you mean packed by holy scripture? It is the horn that devour the soul not the scripture.

MBAC says this.

During Ciel's Arc Drive, she drives the stake into her opponent. Afterward, what is ejected from the magazine is not an empty cartridge, but pages of the holy scripture. For vampires, this is no different from being directly injected with the holy scripture itself. There is no doubt that it is a surefire "Immortal Killer". https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Ciel#cite_note-21

also this

The surface of the horn is inscribed with tightly-packed complaints about how “reincarnation is really lame.” https://www.tmdict.com/en/ta.seventh-holy-scripture

the Seventh Holy Scripture is a combination of the horn packed with holy scriptures.

Possibilities means he doesn't know which one is the true future it doesn't matter how many possibility he sees if he cannot see the true future its still inferior.

there's no such thing as the true future. Gilgamesh sees all possible futures and knows what actions to take to achieve said future. he did this to defeat Rani easily in a game of chess in CCC.

How so? Karna is massively outmatched Gil in terms of skill

because that helped him so much in CCC when he fought Gil (it didn't). and before you say Karna was weakened, Gilgamesh was too to an even greater extent. and SNI renders the skill issue a non factor really

and it doesn't like he cannot shoot Gil with his fire which Gil has nothing to hide from it since his fire can erase everything.

Gil can just casually dodge. and Karna will be dead from the Seventh before he does anything of significance.

 

[God243]

i think it's just 24 hours. not sure if you have to contact a mod to review everything though.

do you know a mod?

 

[Rez]

do you know a mod?

If the profiles are not locked then you can add a match yourself after it has concluded but if they are locked which in this case they are. You can request for the match's addition here.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Profiles are not locked, I've added them to their respective profiles.