Weaver261
He/Him- 454
- 276
This is a continuation thread from this one
This is the profile to publish
vsbattles.fandom.com
The previous thread was a disaster due to absurd amount of derailing with 11 pages for no good reason. This thread is for finalizing Yog Sothoth profile and to publish it. 3 Staffs has already agreed. I will list all arguments of members who don't agree with Tier 0 and debunk them one by one.
Important Note : If you don't have any substantial arguments that are based actual scans, it's highly important not to derail the thread with irrelevant topics.
Argument - Yog Sothoth isn't tier 0 because she is not stated as the strongest in Babylon and influenced by Faith system
For Yog Sothoth tier 0, In Divine Comedy's kizuna, it's clearly stated she was influenced by Faith power system only after she came to Babylon. And that means those who lives outside of Babylon are not under Faith system. Yog Sothoth should live in School Building K where Cthullu students live but that building was used by Azathoth alone. Yog Sothoth True Self lives in the world behind the door where time and space is not moving. Only her avatar is in contact with Nyarthalotep. It's pretty clear whatever going on in Babylon has nothing to do with her.
Also Babylon is still composed with two fundamental forces, Yin and Yang. Yog Sothoth is nameless Tao itself plus her virtue of transcending definitions and boundries, she transcends everything that is composed of Yin and Yang. Metaphorical door that lead to her realm is stated as origin of all thing. Also those who disagree claimed that Yog Sothoth power can change which is not even confirmed or happened. Outer Gods are not like normal Godheads. They are incompatible with Babylon Academy's spritiual existence (possibly faith). As they are a different type of gods that are much powerful than normal godheads, it's not right to claim Yog Sothoth power can change. Moreover, there's no mention of Outer Gods power being reduced by faith at all while most Godheads in stories always revolve around this idea.
Chronos is only stated as the oldest god, not the oldest existence. Meanwhile Yog Sothoth is Tao and by her virtue, she predates eveything in existence.
Conclusion : It's already crystal clear for Yog Sothoth to get Tier 0 and current arguments are nothing more than baseless assumptions with no connection at all. Moreover, there's no staff disagree yet. I will carry over the tally from previous thread but if you changed your mind after seeing everything in new light again, you can change your stance.
Agree : @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral : @Ultima_Reality
Disagree :
This is the profile to publish
Weaver261/Yog Sothoth
vsbattles.fandom.com
The previous thread was a disaster due to absurd amount of derailing with 11 pages for no good reason. This thread is for finalizing Yog Sothoth profile and to publish it. 3 Staffs has already agreed. I will list all arguments of members who don't agree with Tier 0 and debunk them one by one.
Important Note : If you don't have any substantial arguments that are based actual scans, it's highly important not to derail the thread with irrelevant topics.
Some abbreviations we will be using here - Hi3 (Honkai Impact 3rd), GGZ (Guns Girl Z), HG2 (Houkai Gakuen 2 = GGZ), HSR (honkai star rail)
First of all, this thread doesn't need to connect with Hi3 to get tier 0 as it's self sufficient but that doesn't mean GGZ and HI3 are not connected. If you looked at all of my scans for proving that, it's clear developers really consider GGZ and HI3 as parallel worlds inside Honkai Universe. Not to mention the re occuring concepts between two worlds like imaginary space, herrschers, Honkai, stigma, characters and so on.....Imaginary Tree is a theoretical model of the Universe with many worlds. It's not literally a tree. Otto theorized it as a tree in Hi3, Zandar theorized it as a tree in HSR. Although their models are similar, there're still small differences since they aren't the same person and Imaginary Tree is a theoretical model not an universal truth. So, saying GGZ doesn't have imaginary tree is like saying Universe doesn't exist in GGZ which is completely ridiculous. Moreover, GGZ has already showed similar Universe Model to Imaginary Tree although it was never dubbed as Imaginary Tree.
Mihoyo CEO said GGZ and HI3 are parallel worlds branching from the same storyline. Co-CEO of Mihoyo also showed GGZ as part of Honkai Universe. Co-CEO Haoyu Cai also confirmed that they already have this Honkai Universe idea ever since 2014 which means they have planned this all along to be parallel worlds. Moreover, In Hi3 comics, it's confirmed again as GGZ & Hi3 are parallel worldlines. GDC confirmation is not even outdated, it was like at 2021. Da Wei korean interview is from 2017. Da Wei even said "They want to create their own Marvel Universe". Even the parallel worlds model is the same idea as Hi3. In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu
First of all, this thread doesn't need to connect with Hi3 to get tier 0 as it's self sufficient but that doesn't mean GGZ and HI3 are not connected. If you looked at all of my scans for proving that, it's clear developers really consider GGZ and HI3 as parallel worlds inside Honkai Universe. Not to mention the re occuring concepts between two worlds like imaginary space, herrschers, Honkai, stigma, characters and so on.....Imaginary Tree is a theoretical model of the Universe with many worlds. It's not literally a tree. Otto theorized it as a tree in Hi3, Zandar theorized it as a tree in HSR. Although their models are similar, there're still small differences since they aren't the same person and Imaginary Tree is a theoretical model not an universal truth. So, saying GGZ doesn't have imaginary tree is like saying Universe doesn't exist in GGZ which is completely ridiculous. Moreover, GGZ has already showed similar Universe Model to Imaginary Tree although it was never dubbed as Imaginary Tree.
Mihoyo CEO said GGZ and HI3 are parallel worlds branching from the same storyline. Co-CEO of Mihoyo also showed GGZ as part of Honkai Universe. Co-CEO Haoyu Cai also confirmed that they already have this Honkai Universe idea ever since 2014 which means they have planned this all along to be parallel worlds. Moreover, In Hi3 comics, it's confirmed again as GGZ & Hi3 are parallel worldlines. GDC confirmation is not even outdated, it was like at 2021. Da Wei korean interview is from 2017. Da Wei even said "They want to create their own Marvel Universe". Even the parallel worlds model is the same idea as Hi3. In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu
Also Hoyoverse and Honkai Universe are not the same. Hoyoverse is the company name for Global distribution and that's why GGZ is not part of it since EN server are already shut down. Hoyoverse is for business purpose while Honkai Universe is for lore setting which is meta-universe or their own marvel universe.
Argument - Yog Sothoth isn't tier 0 because she is not stated as the strongest in Babylon and influenced by Faith system
For Yog Sothoth tier 0, In Divine Comedy's kizuna, it's clearly stated she was influenced by Faith power system only after she came to Babylon. And that means those who lives outside of Babylon are not under Faith system. Yog Sothoth should live in School Building K where Cthullu students live but that building was used by Azathoth alone. Yog Sothoth True Self lives in the world behind the door where time and space is not moving. Only her avatar is in contact with Nyarthalotep. It's pretty clear whatever going on in Babylon has nothing to do with her.
Also Babylon is still composed with two fundamental forces, Yin and Yang. Yog Sothoth is nameless Tao itself plus her virtue of transcending definitions and boundries, she transcends everything that is composed of Yin and Yang. Metaphorical door that lead to her realm is stated as origin of all thing. Also those who disagree claimed that Yog Sothoth power can change which is not even confirmed or happened. Outer Gods are not like normal Godheads. They are incompatible with Babylon Academy's spritiual existence (possibly faith). As they are a different type of gods that are much powerful than normal godheads, it's not right to claim Yog Sothoth power can change. Moreover, there's no mention of Outer Gods power being reduced by faith at all while most Godheads in stories always revolve around this idea.
Argument - Chronos is the oldest god thus Yog Sothoth is predated by Chronos and doesn't qualify for Tier 0
Chronos is only stated as the oldest god, not the oldest existence. Meanwhile Yog Sothoth is Tao and by her virtue, she predates eveything in existence.
- Door that lead to Tao is stated as "origin of all thing" Mind that the door is also a metaphor since it doesn't exist.
- Tao is the essence of all being and outcome
- Yin and Yang are two fundamental forces that govern everything in cosmo
- Babylon also has yin and yang
Conclusion : It's already crystal clear for Yog Sothoth to get Tier 0 and current arguments are nothing more than baseless assumptions with no connection at all. Moreover, there's no staff disagree yet. I will carry over the tally from previous thread but if you changed your mind after seeing everything in new light again, you can change your stance.
Agree : @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral : @Ultima_Reality
Disagree :
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