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Gensokyo vs SCP Foundation

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Sir Ovens said:
They have tons of ways (pun not intended) to travel to other dimensions including actual Ways and the SCPS Solidarity, which is not only Low 2-C, but has weaponisable Scranton Reality Anchors and dozens of duplicates from other universes.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure this is beside my point.

If the Gensokyo side is somehow able to seal the Foundation off from their reality and then attack from it, an SRA isn't just going to nullify that attack the way Wardok's response implies it would. Not only are SRAs already limited in range, but they would also have to somehow get through the seal in order to affect anything beyond it in that scenario.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Yes, they have that range with Ways. Plus, like I said, the SCPS Solidarity, which has interdimensional travel, and SRA weapons.
Click to expand...
"Interplanetary, although it can bypass distances with spatial folding"

This means nothing, Interdimensional can be anything from High Universal to Multiversal+.

Saying "Interdimensional" doesn't mean anything, it actually gives me more suspicion on the claims of them having greater Universal+ outside of their Higher dimensional units.
 
The things is, they can't destroy The Foundation from wherever it is they're hiding from. The Administrator will always fate hax the Foundation back into existence. They also can't hide Gensokyo from the Foundation as long as they pose an active threat because the Foundation can make them an SCP, and then erase them using Swann by butchering thier article.

Also they have access to Ways which can allow them to access Gensyoko whether they like it or not. With GOC assistance they can just drop magic nukes through Ways until Gensokyo surrenders.

Not to mention the fact that The Foundation can just go back in time and gas Gensokyo with a steriliser that can sterilise you out of of existence by retroactively making your parents infertile. Erase the entire universe and remake it without Gensokyo with SCP 0001, and so on.
 
SCP's world becomes far less dire when you realize how many absurd ways they have to reset everything.
 
>The things is, they can't destroy The Foundation from wherever it is they're hiding from. The Administrator will always fate hax the Foundation back into existence.

Can they do that while the entire foundation already exists and is just stuck in Eternity? Kaguya would completely neg the entire Foundation.

Eirin would then be able to seal the Foundation from outside interference beyond Multiversal range Etc.

>Also they have access to Ways which can allow them to access Gensyoko whether they like it or not.

Not when they're stuck in eternity.

>With GOC assistance they can just drop magic nukes through Ways until Gensokyo surrenders.

Said Nukes don't have the range to get to Gensokyo normally, let alone if Eirin and Yukari seals Gensokyo away.

>Not to mention the fact that The Foundation can just go back in time and gas Gensokyo

They can't get to it in the first place, and make infertile beings who don't reproduce? Okay...?

>Erase the entire universe and remake it without Gensokyo with SCP 0001, and so on.

They're still Stuck in Eternity from Kaguya and Mountain God.
 
The Overvoid Lurk becomes an actual deus ex machina and saves The Foundation. Alternate universe Foundations see the baseline reality Foundation in trouble and send help. Ara Orun aren't affected because they exist as literal information and you need to be information in order to affect them. O5-5 uses any of his infinite other selves from infinite other universes to send help. Also the Administrator is fully abstract and nobody knows about him except O5-1. Admin will always keep the Foundation going through fate hax even if you destroy the entire Foundation. Three Moons sees that The Foundation have been yeeted and teleport the whole of Earth to Corbenic.
 
>The Overvoid Lurk becomes an actual deus ex machina and saves The Foundation

Can he manipulate Eternity? Because if you're saying he can via Plot manipulation that would be a hasty generalisation as Plot Manipulation doesn't give you Complete Arsenal.

>Alternate universe Foundations see the baseline reality Foundation in trouble and send help.

And would subsequently get trapped in Eternity as the Gods would seal them too as they are Multiversal constants.

>Ara Orun aren't affected because they exist as literal information and you need to be information in order to affect them.

And that's an NLF, and the Gods exist across the entire verse of Touhou which includes the Cyberworld anyway.

>O5-5 uses any of his infinite other selves from infinite other universes to send help.

Stuck in Eternity too.

>Admin will always keep the Foundation going through fate hax even if you destroy the entire Foundation.

Admins are stuck in Eternity as well, and them trapping the Foundation in Eternity doesn't destroy anything.

>Three Moons sees that The Foundation have been yeeted and teleport the whole of Earth to Corbenic.

Still isn't destroyed.
 
As said above,

Jack seduces Yukari, Clef snipes some reality warping fairies, and Kondraki probably rides Cirno into battle.
 
Overvoid exists outside the Narrative, he can just bullshit a plot that gets The Foundation out of there. That's what deus ex machina means.

Yeah, but there are infinite other Foundations.

They don't exist as just cybernetic information, they exist as actual information, like thoughts. You need some pretty strong concept manip to kill them since they can survive attacks from SCP-3125.

How will Gensokyo even know the Admin exists? It's an abstract entity not even the Foundation knows exists.

0001 can't be destroyed physically because it exists as a version of itself inside it's dream which exists as a version of itself inside it's dream ad infinitum. You have to destroy every version of it in infinite layers of dreams.

Not to mention the multiple omniscient and precognitive SCPs that The Foundation have at their disposal that would warn them about the eternity manip before it happens.
 
>Overvoid exists outside the Narrative, he can just bullshit a plot that gets The Foundation out of there. That's what deus ex machina means.

Again, you haven't proven he can counter the Eternity manipulation, so he wouldn't be able to do that as you're making the asumption that he "just can" because "Deus ex machina"

>Yeah, but there are infinite other Foundations.

And? The Gods exist across the entire Multiverse as concepts, they'd have no problem.

>They don't exist as just cybernetic information, they exist as actual information, like thoughts.

Youkai are literally just thoughts and stories.

>You need some pretty strong concept manip to kill them since they can survive attacks from SCP-3125.

You mean like people who can interact with ideas and stories...like Youkai?

Reimu's job is to eradicate Youkai, and 3125 is ranked at Unknown and doesn't even have Concept manip, so, oops.

>How will Gensokyo even know the Admin exists? It's an abstract entity not even the Foundation knows exists.

Because Gensokyo has multiple Omnipresent abstract entities who would be able to immediately find and Eternity hax them.

>0001 can't be destroyed physically because it exists as a version of itself inside it's dream which exists as a version of itself inside it's dream ad infinitum. You have to destroy every version of it in infinite layers of dreams.

Who said anything about destroying? And Doremy Sweet would also be able to keep them busy as well.

>Not to mention the multiple omniscient and precognitive SCPs that The Foundation have at their disposal that would warn them about the eternity manip before it happens.

And nothing they have is able to specifically counter Eternity Manipulation.
 
Nope, but they can reset the universe before the eternity manip strikes. Also omnipresent concept manip Gods don't affect The Foundation because they can kill the concept of death. They can also use their concept pointer to put the concept of nukes inside the concept of Gensokyo. Temporal Department boyos will already know of the eternity manip in the past and can alter causality to prevent that outcome from happening by avoiding it entirely. Ouroboros O5-1 can also use SCP-001 (djkaktus's Proposal) to annihilate the entirety of Gensokyo remotely.

Also why would Overvoid need feats of bypassing eternity manip? All he has to do is just write "Kaguya doesn't use her eternity manip just cause."
 
So all 001's are canon?

I remember that being brought up as a possibility, but I also remember a story where a "secret" 001 (has another number that can't remember) pretty much kept making mimics of the observable universe further out with some weird monsters in it.
 
All 001s are canon but they're not all called 001s. For instance, in Ouroboros, Twistedgears and the Gate Guardian both existed, but the 001 of the article was the Administrator.
 
>Nope, but they can reset the universe before the eternity manip strikes.

The Omnipresent Gods would be able to eternity manip then faster than they could press a button, as it's thought based.

>Also omnipresent concept manip Gods don't affect The Foundation because they can kill the concept of death.

That is a non-sequitur, just because they can kill concepts doesn't mean they're immune to anything they can do.

And the God can act faster then they can and just eternity manip the entire foundation along with its copies.

> They can also use their concept pointer to put the concept of nukes inside the concept of Gensokyo.

And Yukari can effortlessly send them back among with the other Gods doing the same.

>Temporal Department boyos will already know of the eternity manip in the past and can alter causality to prevent that outcome from happening by avoiding it entirely.

The Precognition Of Gensokyo would also know this and would take measures against this, as Gensokyo has longer prep, they would use people like Keine to eat the history of them doing anything, negating them.

As well, Yukari is unphased by changes to the past like that, so it wouldn't stop her.

And once more you're not saying how they would stop the eternity manip besides being vague, which leads me to conclude they can't and you're just grasping for straws.

>Ouroboros O5-1 can also use SCP-001 (djkaktus's Proposal) to annihilate the entirety of Gensokyo remotely.

"Hundreds of meters with radiation, At least Planetary with Quantum Tunneling"

And it's still a no, not enough range.

>Also why would Overvoid need feats of bypassing eternity manip? All he has to do is just write "Kaguya doesn't use her eternity manip just cause."

Doesn't stop the Omnipresent Gods, and as Eirin is banned, it's likely that these 1-As are going to be banned from taking part in the fight anyway.

And anyway, they would have no reason to take part in the fight anyway.
 
you forgot this certain old ma can just think to eraicate the entire gensokyo. and the Ways is 1-B in range, not only interdimensional. and you forgot they also have Plot manip, which pretty much no one in Touhou can resist.
 
>you forgot this certain old man can just think to eraicate the entire gensokyo. and the Ways is 1-B in range, not only interdimensional.

Who is not only getting continuously weaker, doesn't actually want to kill beings not created by him but is suffering dementia and forgets things a lot, so why would he fight? He'd immediately forget or would choose not to because they weren't his creations.
 
Wardokman69 said:
>weaker
>weren't his creation

doesn't matter, still 1-B in power and Clef can just ask him to do so.
Click to expand...
No, he can't, Clef called in his one favour with 343 to take out 243 and even then, he didn't kill 243 himself, Clef killed her in an alternate reality where her reality warping didn't apply.
 
While SCP-3125's rated at unknown that's because its dimensionality is a whole number between 5 and 6, making it uncountably infinitely above 5d beings but uncountably infinitely below 6d beings, making it not fit within our system. But it's still well above 5-D hax, and Ara Orun can tank attacks from it.

Also, SCP-001-EX has powernull magic which neutralized SCP-682 (rendered non-anomalous/non-existent), who has many 1-B powers. Since this is an AI under the control of the Foundation, it should be able to generate magic to work on Gensokyo.
 
>But it's still well above 5-D hax, and Ara Orun can tank attacks from it.

That's neat but it doesn't give Conceptual resistance.

>Also, SCP-001-EX has powernull magic which neutralized SCP-682 (rendered non-anomalous/non-existent), who has many 1-B powers.

Okay, does he have Eternity manipulation which was negated.

>Since this is an AI under the control of the Foundation, it should be able to generate magic to work on Gensokyo.

What is this A.I's range? Because people keep saying people can do things and when I check their profile they have Planetary Ranges and such.

>All 001s are canon but they're not all called 001s

Okay, the Foundation starts to die due to "When Day Breaks" wiping them out, which leaves the Youkai to incap the rest.
 
That's neat but it doesn't give Conceptual resistance.

Due to the nature of them being ideas, it does give Conceptual/Mind/Memory resistance, actually.

Okay, does he have Eternity manipulation which was negated.

Are you memeing by constantly bringing this up? Power null doesn't have to be shown on every specific non-special ability to work on it, it just has to be shown to work on abilities that come from similar sources/work like it, or to have another reason to work on it. With SCP-001-EX having neutralized SCP-173, SCP-682, SCP-694, SCP-702, SCP-712, SCP-049, SCP-475, SCP-816, SCP-942, SCP-1244, SCP-096, SCP-106, SCP-511, SCP-941, SCP-1244, SCP-3043, SCP-3012, SCP-3007, SCP-3002, SCP-3001, SCP-2989, SCP-2041, SCP-2038, SCP-2031, SCP-2021, SCP-2001, SCP-1945, SCP-1784, SCP-1501, SCP-1264, SCP-1143, SCP-1091, and SCP-981 I think it's safe to say that it works on a wide variety of abilities. What criteria do you think eternity manip has that would make it not affected by this power null?

What is this A.I's range? Because people keep saying people can do things and when I check their profile they have Planetary Ranges and such.

Well, it can't do much by itself. It uses a neural network to come up with some obscure way of neutralizing an SCP, usually involving some bizarre magical ritual that has nothing to do with actually touching the SCP, and then the SCP's neutralized for no discernible reason. But, as it neutralized SCP-682, it can neutralize the effects of 1-B beings that exist outside the multiverse.
 
>Due to the nature of them being ideas, it does give Conceptual/Mind/Memory resistance, actually.

Not really, Non-physical interaction exists.

>Are you memeing by constantly bringing this up? Power null doesn't have to be shown on every specific non-special ability to work on

This is a NLF. And Eternity manipulation is extremely unique.

>Well, it can't do much by itself.

So it requires the Foundation to tell it to attack Gensokyo when the fight starts, which isn't fast enough.

>bizarre magical ritual that has nothing to do with actually touching the SCP

So, it takes too long.

> But, as it neutralized SCP-682, it can neutralize the effects of 1-B beings that exist outside the multiverse.

Effects =/= them, so it's range is unknown because their "effects" are within the Universe, highly likely Planet.

So it's range is still insufficient.
 
Udlmaster said:
Wardokman69 said:
>weaker
>weren't his creation

doesn't matter, still 1-B in power and Clef can just ask him to do so.
Click to expand...
No, he can't, Clef called in his one favour with 343 to take out 243 and even then, he didn't kill 243 himself, Clef killed her in an alternate reality where her reality warping didn't apply.
Click to expand...
its 239, not gensokyo.
 
Not really, Non-physical interaction exists.

SCP-3125 isn't a physical thing with NPI either, it's also an idea. They engage in "identity warfare" and attack each other through ideas, but we would need someone to look into what actual resistances would be derived from this.

Which is why it's an issue that Ovens posted this Foundation profile before it was completed.

This is a NLF. And Eternity manipulation is extremely unique.

Assuming power null can work on similar abilities to ones it's worked on before isn't NLF. Iihiko Shishime can null Blood Manipulation despite it not being a thing in-verse, that's how the site works.

What makes eternity manipulation unique and difficult to nullify?

So it requires the Foundation to tell it to attack Gensokyo when the fight starts, which isn't fast enough.

Not attack Gensokyo, just perform a ritual somewhere. Also, speed's equalized.

So, it takes too long.

Not necessarily, there's not a defined timeframe but it's generally not insanely long.

Effects =/= them, so it's range is unknown because their "effects" are within the Universe, highly likely Planet.

So it's range is still insufficient.

You don't think making it so that things outside the universe can't effect the universe is enough range?
 
yes it is, because his relation with 239 that why he did not kill her. its different thing if Clef just ask him to nuke Gensokyo which he has no relation whatsoever.
 
>Which is why it's an issue that Ovens posted this Foundation profile before it was completed.

Then since it hasn't been accepted or reviewed it cannot be used in this fight.

>Assuming power null can work on similar abilities to ones it's worked on before isn't NLF.

You're making an argument without evidence based on a tenuous relation, not even direct evidence, that is a NLF based on a basic assumption on Power null working on anything related.

Just because I have Magma manipulation Power null doesn't mean I have Heat Manipulation Power null or Plasma manipulation Power null.

>What makes eternity manipulation unique and difficult to nullify?

That it doesn't act like any hax at all, it's classified as it's own hax for a long time.

>Not attack Gensokyo, just perform a ritual somewhere. Also, speed's equalized.

Speed equal doesn't change the fact that thought based hax is faster than speaking a sentence.

>Not necessarily, there's not a defined timeframe but it's generally not insanely long.

It's still a ritual and therefore would take some amount of time, which is slower than thinking.

>You don't think making it so that things outside the universe can't effect the universe is enough range?

Wasn't what you said, their effects wouldn't be outside the Universe, their effects would have to be measured within a reasonable area of measurement.
 
Yeah, calling BS on the Eternity Manipulation thing unless you can prove it. Nothing comes up when I search it on the site.
 
Then since it hasn't been accepted or reviewed it cannot be used in this fight.

Then they're not actually fighting The Foundation but a severely nerfed version of it based on 5% of the pages on the site.

You're making an argument without evidence based on a tenuous relation, not even direct evidence, that is a NLF based on a basic assumption on Power null working on anything related.

Just because I have Magma manipulation Power null doesn't mean I have Heat Manipulation Power null or Plasma manipulation Power null.

If your power null only works on magma manip, then it wouldn't work on plasma manip. If it's power manip based on precognition to figure out how to nullify a being, which works on 45 separate beings with collectively hundreds of different abilities, ranging from the physical, to the metaphysical, to the conceptual, then you'd assume that it would work on Earth Manipulation even if that's not included.

That it doesn't act like any hax at all, it's classified as it's own hax for a long time.

Elaborate.

Also, if it was classified as its own thing for a long time but isn't now, what's it classified as now?

Speed equal doesn't change the fact that thought based hax is faster than speaking a sentence.

So Gensokyo nukes The Foundation on the first thought of the battle, and The Foundation can't counteract it despite their prep time, precog, and having sites outside of causality & the multiverse?

Because if so I'll have to look into different ways for them to win, and a lot of the argument up until now has been pointless

.Wasn't what you said, their effects wouldn't be outside the Universe, their effects would have to be measured within a reasonable area of measurement.

I don't know what you mean by this.
 
Yeah, I've read the explanation her her powers and abilities section, and all it does is make something unchanging. Nothing really that special about it at all.
 
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