Genshin Sub-Relativistic calc issues

[Giannysmag]

Everyone in Genshin Impact currently scales to this calc of Kazuha intercepting Raiden's attack.

So what's the problem? Well the calc assumes Raiden's attack is moving at lightning speed. In the comments Garrixian specifies the reason for this is that Raiden's attacks have been accepted as lightning speed. But what they fail to mention is that in the original thread where this was accepted, it was specificaly her lightning attacks that are MHS+, because of her being able to use cloud to ground lightning.

The Musou no Hitotachi (the attack that Kazuha intercepts) is not a bolt of lightning, it is simply a sword swing that is infused with the element of electro (so essentually a sword that has electro flowing through it that deals electro damage on contact). There is no evidence as to why such an attack would be lightning speed. Infact in the scene where Raiden attacks the Traveler you can see little sparks of lightning flying around at normal speed while everything else, including the Musou no Hitotachi, is in slow mo, so even visually the attack is shown as slower than actual lightning bolts

With that in mind i think the calc isn't usable and should be removed from the verse

 

[Woomica]

Okay...Imma be neutral once again,since im not smart with calcs and stuff,and garrixian already had nice counter args in their op,and gianny crt
However i truthfully believe everyone being sub-relativistic is questionable
Says the guy who made everyone 7-A

 

[Giannysmag]

Says the guy who made everyone 7-A

AP revisions are coming after I'm done with speed

 

[GarrixianXD]

The first cutscene was in slow-mo from the Traveler's perspective. We can see from this scene onward, that Paimon's voice wasn't affected by slow-motion and everything else was at normal speed. Hence, only that scene when Raiden was swinging her sword was slow motion.

And as for the argument of the sword being infused with lightning but not the actual lightning itself, I'm pretty sure something like that correlates with how kinematics and the conservation of energy work. If something was powered by an energy source (lightning in this case), there would have to be kinetic energy to harness the electrostatic potential energy in it. If it contains the potential energy of lightning then it'll transform into kinetic energy, meaning the Musou no Hitotachi will also have its speed.

 

[Giannysmag]

The first cutscene was in slow-mo from the Traveler's perspective. We can see from this scene onward, that Paimon's voice wasn't affected by slow-motion and everything else was at normal speed. Hence, only that scene when Raiden was swinging her sword was slow motion.

Honestly i don't see it. The only thing moving at normal speed are the lightning bolts and Paimon's voice does sound somewhat slowed down to me

And as for the argument of the sword being infused with lightning but not the actual lightning itself, I'm pretty sure something like that correlates with how kinematics and the conservation of energy work. If something was powered by an energy source (lightning in this case), there would have to be kinetic energy to harness the electrostatic potential energy in it. If it contains the potential energy of lightning then it'll transform into kinetic energy, meaning the Musou no Hitotachi will also have its speed.

I'm not smart enough to fully understand if this is true or not but lightning doesn't have mass right? So if lightning is moving at that speed without any mass and then you put the energy of that lightning into something that does have mass then wouldn't it be slower as a result? Since the mass increased and the energy stayed the same.

Btw can you tag some CGM to look at this thread

 

[GarrixianXD]

Honestly i don't see it. The only thing moving at normal speed are the lightning bolts and Paimon's voice does sound somewhat slowed down to me

Nah. Pitch is still normal. We don't see the lightning bolts when Raiden swung her sword.

I'm not smart enough to fully understand if this is true or not but lightning doesn't have mass right? So if lightning is moving at that speed without any mass and then you put the energy of that lightning into something that does have mass then wouldn't it be slower as a result? Since the mass increased and the energy stayed the same.

Btw can you tag some CGM to look at this thread

Uhhh... I rarely seen CGMs deal with electricity types of feats since it is quite complex and all. Guess I'll ping tmrw but rn I'm sleepy asf

 

[Giannysmag]

And as for the argument of the sword being infused with lightning but not the actual lightning itself, I'm pretty sure something like that correlates with how kinematics and the conservation of energy work. If something was powered by an energy source (lightning in this case), there would have to be kinetic energy to harness the electrostatic potential energy in it. If it contains the potential energy of lightning then it'll transform into kinetic energy, meaning the Musou no Hitotachi will also have its speed.

Btw I'm assuming your point here is that Raiden turns the energy of lightning into KE for the sword and thus boosting it's speed. Well a lightningbolt has around 1.6 billion Joules of energy, a katana weighs 1.2 kilos and the formula for KE is 0.5*mass*(speed)^2, so with that in mind the speed of Raiden's sword swing would be boosted to
1.6*10^9 = 0.5*1.2*(speed)^2 <=> (speed)^2 = 2,6*10^9 <=> speed = 51,000 m/s which is 9 times slower than the speed of lightning

 

[GarrixianXD]

Btw I'm assuming your point here is that Raiden turns the energy of lightning into KE for the sword and thus boosting it's speed. Well a lightningbolt has around 1.6 billion Joules of energy, a katana weighs 1.2 kilos and the formula for KE is 0.5*mass*(speed)^2, so with that in mind the speed of Raiden's sword swing would be boosted to
1.6*10^9 = 0.5*1.2*(speed)^2 <=> (speed)^2 = 2,6*10^9 <=> speed = 51,000 m/s which is 9 times slower than the speed of lightning

It's rather the kinetic energy of the lightning itself than the katana at the phase Raiden was swinging it.

Anyways, doing what the OP asked...

@Flashlight237 @CloverDragon03 @TheRustyOne @M3X_2.0 Flashlight originally approved of my sub-rel calculation and I heard the other 3 are knowledgeable on lightning stuff.

 

[Giannysmag]

we're kinda using Raiden's AP here

Well using that you get her attack being MFTL lol, at which point KE stuff wouldn't apply because relativity

 

[M3X_2.0]

What requirements does this lightning fit

 

[GarrixianXD]

Well using that you get her attack being MFTL lol

I edited my comment I didn't knew what I was thinking with that

 

[GarrixianXD]

What requirements does this lightning fit

Here's the CRT about it.

Genshin Impact: Speed Issue

At the moment, Genshin Impact is not clear about the issue of speed, and the problem of Razor's Lightning speed. I will come to explain and address that point. Razor's Lightning speed Since the feat of Low 7-B is currently being considered as an outliers from this thread, and Razor's own Vision...

vsbattles.com

Other than that, I don't actually know other than the fact it has the speed of lightning.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Here's the CRT about it.

Genshin Impact: Speed Issue

At the moment, Genshin Impact is not clear about the issue of speed, and the problem of Razor's Lightning speed. I will come to explain and address that point. Razor's Lightning speed Since the feat of Low 7-B is currently being considered as an outliers from this thread, and Razor's own Vision...

vsbattles.com

Other than that, I don't actually know other than the fact it has the speed of lightning.

I've read it, but the only thing I see is that the character uses CtG lightning. Was CtG lightning used in the feat of the above calculation?

 

[Giannysmag]

It's rather the kinetic energy of the lightning itself than the katana at the phase Raiden was swinging it.

Does lightning even have kinetic energy? Isn't it all just electic energy, since it doesn't have any mass?

What requirements does this lightning fit

She uses cloud to ground lightning here, which is why it was agreed to be MHS+ in this thread

 

[Giannysmag]

Was CtG lightning used in the feat of the above calculation?

No

 

[M3X_2.0]

No

Then no, the calc is wrong.

 

[Giannysmag]

Then no, the calc is wrong.

Rare M3X W

 

[M3X_2.0]

Rare M3X W

It's very common when you don't wank JJK actually.

 

[Giannysmag]

It's very common when you don't wank JJK actually.

FTL JJK thread coming soon btw

 

[M3X_2.0]

A more in-depth evaluation: A character using cloud to ground lightning once isn't enough to prove that every other lightning attack of theirs is also cloud to ground lightning.

To prove the lightning has the speed of lightning in this wiki, it must have at least a few of these requirements.

If in the feat in question the character wasn't using CtG lightning, then the speed cannot be used.

 

[Flashlight237]

Yeah, judging from responses after the mention, I might have to rescind my initial approval of the calc. I was admittedly hesitant in approving the calc at the time.

 

[GarrixianXD]

A more in-depth evaluation: A character using cloud to ground lightning once isn't enough to prove that every other lightning attack of theirs is also cloud to ground lightning.

To prove the lightning has the speed of lightning in this wiki, it must have at least a few of these requirements.

If in the feat in question the character wasn't using CtG lightning, then the speed cannot be used.

Then I suppose this calculation should also be in question:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amost6x/Aether_dodge_lightning

Raiden used the same form of lightning in both feats. If that is the case and the speed of lightning cannot be used, then both the Sub-Rel+ and Massively Hypersonic+ calculations will have to be removed. Hence, the entire verse will be downgraded to Supersonic+.

 

[Giannysmag]

the entire verse will be downgraded to Supersonic+.

I'd rather us discuss what they will be downgraded to on a separate thread, since this is just for rejecting the sub rel calc

Also does M3X count as a staff member? Cause if so we already have two agreements

 

[Giannysmag]

Raiden used the same form of lightning in both feats

Also she uses the same lightning in both feats but in the MHS+ it's an actual bolt of lightning rather than just her infusing electro in her sword

 

[GarrixianXD]

I’m forgot how calc group discussions even work.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Also does M3X count as a staff member? Cause if so we already have two agreements

Nope

 

[Giannysmag]

Nope

Damn

 

[GarrixianXD]

Istg if Genshin gets downgraded to Supersonic+ that’s on you

 

[Giannysmag]

Istg if Genshin gets downgraded to Supersonic+ that’s on you

It would be an honor if that happens

 

[Woomica]

Istg if Genshin gets downgraded to Supersonic+ that’s on you

Fyi a "supposedly" sub relaticistic navia cant outrun collapsing bridge and traveler cannot save her ass

 

[Giannysmag]

Fyi a "supposedly" sub relaticistic navia cant outrun collapsing bridge and traveler cannot save her ass

Navia is just that fodder

 

[TheRustyOne]

Reading through the thread, I have to agree that lightning speed shouldn't be used in the calculations.

M3X pretty much nailed it on the head.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think on top of what was already said, swinging a sword with lightning coming off of it doesn't make the sword swing lightning speed. Raiden is doing the moving, not the lightning

So yeah, I agree with not using the calc