General D&D questions

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Infinitely above baseline 2-C since he is infinitely above demon lords

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well. It depends. Pun-Pun is a character meant to overcome the restrictions set by the DM. So they'd be the same tiers as Lumi, I assume, since Lumi = DM.

 

[Udlmaster]

Omg, Pun-Pun vs Nyarlathotep, when?!

 

[Qawsedf234]

Using pure game mechanics I think Pun-Pun has a divine rank of 21+ which would make him a overgod like Ao. So 2A to High 2A at the minimum.

Also I don't think Pun-Pun exists to break the DM, but to show how easily exploitable the 3e magic system is at face value. Iirc the original Pun-Pun stat explanation even mentions that most DMs will stone wall the cheese.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well. It depends. Pun-Pun is a character meant to overcome the restrictions set by the DM. So they'd be the same tiers as Lumi, I assume, since Lumi = DM.

It definitely doesn't. Nothing in the game overcomes DM fiat, and a DM is well within their rights to say "rocks fall, you die" or literally anything else and shut down a Pun-Pun build completely. (Plus, if we tiered things based on stuff like "Pun-Pun is a build meant to exploit rules", the Lady of Pain is 1-A because she's meant to act as a GM's "you lose" button that could shut down something like a Pun-Pun build because the DM says so, which isn't a very good tiering explanation.)

Pun-Pun is made to cheese the rules of the game and exploit just how broken certain aspects of 3e when taken at face value, which Qawsedf mentioned above. The absolute most it could "canonically" hope for if it was allowed to happen and worked exactly as intended was arbitrarily high Overgod status, so High 2-A/maybe "At least High 2-A".

 

[Qawsedf234]

So what's our current composite DnD polyverse like? This?

• Material, Inner, Ethereal, Astral, and Outer Planes are 1st through 5th dimensional

• Some barrier exists that stops 6th dimensional incursions and a spell mentions a 7th dimension

• The Far Realm transcends the multiverse's dimensional structure

• Low end cosmology size: 8th to 9th dimensional

• Theoretical size: High 1-B (with a possible 1-A Far Realm)

 

[Udlmaster]

If I remember correctly, don't the Mind Flayers and such beings come from the Far Realm?

If so, does that make them High 1-B? As they exist outside the normal Dimensional structure of the Multiverse?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Anything can visit the Far Realms and creatures from the Far Realms are typical monster 99% of the time. Also I don't believe Mind Flayers are from the Far Realm. They come from the future iirc.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Glanced over their Wikipedia entry and they seem to have three contradicting backstories. Of them they come from the Far Realm in one but either way Mind Flayers and their civilization are definitely not High 1-B.

 

[Udlmaster]

Nope, the Mind Flayers are from the Far Realm .

 

[Qawsedf234]

They have a different origin in Spelljammer and in 3e.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also, I know they're not High 1-B themselves, becuase that's rediculous, most of all when they're killed by 3-D beings pretty casually.

I brought it up to see what you thought.

 

[Qawsedf234]

• 2e origin

• 2e recton/alternate explination of the above story and Part 2

• 3e origi

However the prime Mind Flayer empire was absurdly powerful. So powerful the Blood War was temporarily halted .

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Far Realm explicitly has beings that are analogous to 3D beings from the normal multiverses, as well as things much larger and scarier, such as beings comparable to Greater Gods.

Being from the Far Realm does not necessarily grant any specific level of power. It just means your nature is vastly different from what's found in the actual multiverses normally.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I mean, affecting a large portion of the far realm would be enough for at least 1-C likely 1-A, but I don't think anyone ever has.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, I don't actually think anything from the Far Realm has ever been stated to have fundamentally altered the Far Realm itself, which is odd by D&D standards (almost every realm/plane/setting has a slot that basically says "insert supreme god here").

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are there Greater God level FR creatures? I known there's some Elder Evils that can kill God's but that's due to special anti-god hax.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I think great old ones are comparable to greater gods, like cthulhu

 

[Qawsedf234]

I thought it was Pathfinder that did Cthulhu and not DnD.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

He's at least in 5th edition

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well post 1e DnD. Since the first ADnD god expansion had Cthulhu stuff (like 2A/High 2A Azathoth).

 

[Qawsedf234]

> Your patron is a mysterious entity whose nature is utterly foreign to the fabric of reality. It might come from the Far Realm, the space beyond reality, or it could be one of the elder gods known only in legends. Its motives are incomprehensible to mortals, and its knowledge so immense and ancient that even the greatest libraries pale in comparison to the vast secrets it holds. The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it.

> Entities of this type include Ghaunadar, called That Which Lurks; Tharizdun, the Chained God; Dendar, the Night Serpent; Zargon, the Returner; Great Cthulhu; and other unfathomable beings.

Huh, TIL.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Made a blog post about the cosmology . Hopefully it makes sorting out some of the higher tier scaling easier.