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Speed Equalized No help Both Full Health Fishmen Island where luffy knocked out 50k fishmen
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Gear 4th luffy vs Doflimango rematch
- Thread starter Kunglao105
- Start date
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I thought Luffy had a lot of help in canon? How's he going to win this one if that's the case?
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- Thread starter
- #3
Thoughts exactly just looking for others opinions
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Most likely inconclusive as Luffy's current Gear 4 is stronger than Dressrosa Gear 4 but Doflamingo was stronger than the Dressrosa Gear 4 so this would even the odds.
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Doflamingo wins.
Luffy is still physically superior to Doflamingo and can easily damage him, but Doffy still has the ability to just sit back and let the landscape fight as his weapon. And considering how both have knowledge on the other's abilities at this point, and this isn't a PIS fight, Doflamingo is not going to go head-first into an attack. He'll rely more on trickery like he usually does in fights against other characters in the verse, and the only way he can be out-done is if he decides to underestimate Luffy the entire time. Luffy's Gear 4th drains him, so the fight will end as soon as he begins to tire.
So pretty much, Doflamingo should be able to win via versatility, stamina and Regenerationn while Luffy's only advantages consist of being faster, and physically superior.
Luffy is still physically superior to Doflamingo and can easily damage him, but Doffy still has the ability to just sit back and let the landscape fight as his weapon. And considering how both have knowledge on the other's abilities at this point, and this isn't a PIS fight, Doflamingo is not going to go head-first into an attack. He'll rely more on trickery like he usually does in fights against other characters in the verse, and the only way he can be out-done is if he decides to underestimate Luffy the entire time. Luffy's Gear 4th drains him, so the fight will end as soon as he begins to tire.
So pretty much, Doflamingo should be able to win via versatility, stamina and Regenerationn while Luffy's only advantages consist of being faster, and physically superior.
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This.Reppuzan said:
@CinCameron20
Doffy vs Luffy wasn't a PIS match at all.
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@Reppuza: Well, it's not exactly a canon fight, since Luffy and Doflamingo were both pretty much not at 100% before Luffy entered gear 4.
@Rin Rokudo: Disagreed, Doffy had Luffy dead to rights in base form, but pretty much allowed him to transform into gear 4 again instead of finishing him off. Then there's the matter of him fighting gear 4 Luffy head-on the second time instead of stalling him out like he the first time, despite knowing that Luffy had very little time left on the clock to maintain his gear 4 the second time.
As for the fight itself, I am extremely undecided to be honest. There is also the fact to consider that Doflamingo had a country-wide finishing move going on during his entire fight with Luffy, and was damaged by Law heavily, holding his internal organs together with stitches instead of properly healing.
Then again, had Luffy truly gone all out from the beginning, he could have finished Doflamingo immediately. That's also an arguable case of PIS.
I believe Doflamingo would win against Gear 4 Luffy during Dressrosa, despite Luffy being stronger, mostly because of Luffy's gear 4 time limit.
@Rin Rokudo: Disagreed, Doffy had Luffy dead to rights in base form, but pretty much allowed him to transform into gear 4 again instead of finishing him off. Then there's the matter of him fighting gear 4 Luffy head-on the second time instead of stalling him out like he the first time, despite knowing that Luffy had very little time left on the clock to maintain his gear 4 the second time.
As for the fight itself, I am extremely undecided to be honest. There is also the fact to consider that Doflamingo had a country-wide finishing move going on during his entire fight with Luffy, and was damaged by Law heavily, holding his internal organs together with stitches instead of properly healing.
Then again, had Luffy truly gone all out from the beginning, he could have finished Doflamingo immediately. That's also an arguable case of PIS.
I believe Doflamingo would win against Gear 4 Luffy during Dressrosa, despite Luffy being stronger, mostly because of Luffy's gear 4 time limit.
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Luffy wins 1) Luffy gets stronger after each arc and just went through an 11 hour fight with cracker which is basically 11 hours of training and so is stronger now then he was on dressrosa
2) Luffy could have finished off doflamingo just before his gear 4 ran out, when doffy couldn't move Luffy was just staring at him instead of hitting him once more to make sure he doesn't get back, plot is the only reason he didn't
Luffy also wasn't at 100% either when they fought, he had been fighting all day in the coliseum and then again against Bellamy
2) Luffy could have finished off doflamingo just before his gear 4 ran out, when doffy couldn't move Luffy was just staring at him instead of hitting him once more to make sure he doesn't get back, plot is the only reason he didn't
Luffy also wasn't at 100% either when they fought, he had been fighting all day in the coliseum and then again against Bellamy
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1)
Kavpeny said:
I believe Doflamingo would win against Gear 4 Luffy during Dressrosa, despite Luffy being stronger, mostly because of Luffy's gear 4 time limit.
OP states Fishman Island as the venue, with no temporal point of comparison, hence I assumed Dressrosa to be the time when the fight takes place, since that is when Luffy fought Doflamingo.
Also, "Luffy gets stronger after each arc" is a pretty poor argument. Pick a point of time, and make a comparative analysis for that point of time instead of dealing with variable time scenarios. By your logic, every single character in One Piece, should lose to Luffy, because, "Luffy gets stronger after each arc", and hence will beat them eventually.
2) Again, I mentioned what you said already, but also stated it to be an arguable case of PIS, because starting off with his strongest attack is not part of Luffy's character (Luffy has never started a fight with his strongest move).
On the other hand, Doflamingo not stalling Luffy is a definite case of PIS, since Doflamingo decided to stall him out all of 10 minutes ago, and managed to pull off the strategy successfully to boot. What the heck happened to his common sense when fighting gear 4 Luffy the second time? Instead of stalling him out and winning, he decided to take Luffy head-on? For that matter, why did Doflamingo even let Luffy transform the second time to begin with? The entire last segment of Luffy vs Doflamingo screams PIS (although it was a pretty epic end, to be honest).
As for Luffy not being at 100%, the statement is entirely true. But Doflamingo was in a much worse condition than Luffy. He tanked a Red Hawk, and a point-blank Gamma Knife, which should have been a fatal attack, by the way. I seriously doubt the weak-ass attacks from Bellamy caused more damage than an point blank Red Hawk, never mind the Gamma Knife. As for the fight in the Colosseum, Luffy didn't pull out Gear 4 or even Elephant Gatling. Not saying the Colosseum fights didn't sap his stamina, but people definitely overestimate the stamina drain from the Colosseum fights.
Like I said, quite clearly as well, I am well aware that Gear 4 Luffy (during Dressrosa) was stronger than Doflamingo. That is not a debate at all. However, being stronger is not the only way of winning a fight.
Stalling is a legitimate combat stratagem, particularly when the opposition has a time limit, and factoring in Doflamingo's awakened abilities, and the increase in stall time they provide, I'm pretty certain that a fully healthy Doflamingo would win against a healthy Luffy.
Kavpeny said:
I believe Doflamingo would win against Gear 4 Luffy during Dressrosa, despite Luffy being stronger, mostly because of Luffy's gear 4 time limit.
OP states Fishman Island as the venue, with no temporal point of comparison, hence I assumed Dressrosa to be the time when the fight takes place, since that is when Luffy fought Doflamingo.
Also, "Luffy gets stronger after each arc" is a pretty poor argument. Pick a point of time, and make a comparative analysis for that point of time instead of dealing with variable time scenarios. By your logic, every single character in One Piece, should lose to Luffy, because, "Luffy gets stronger after each arc", and hence will beat them eventually.
2) Again, I mentioned what you said already, but also stated it to be an arguable case of PIS, because starting off with his strongest attack is not part of Luffy's character (Luffy has never started a fight with his strongest move).
On the other hand, Doflamingo not stalling Luffy is a definite case of PIS, since Doflamingo decided to stall him out all of 10 minutes ago, and managed to pull off the strategy successfully to boot. What the heck happened to his common sense when fighting gear 4 Luffy the second time? Instead of stalling him out and winning, he decided to take Luffy head-on? For that matter, why did Doflamingo even let Luffy transform the second time to begin with? The entire last segment of Luffy vs Doflamingo screams PIS (although it was a pretty epic end, to be honest).
As for Luffy not being at 100%, the statement is entirely true. But Doflamingo was in a much worse condition than Luffy. He tanked a Red Hawk, and a point-blank Gamma Knife, which should have been a fatal attack, by the way. I seriously doubt the weak-ass attacks from Bellamy caused more damage than an point blank Red Hawk, never mind the Gamma Knife. As for the fight in the Colosseum, Luffy didn't pull out Gear 4 or even Elephant Gatling. Not saying the Colosseum fights didn't sap his stamina, but people definitely overestimate the stamina drain from the Colosseum fights.
Like I said, quite clearly as well, I am well aware that Gear 4 Luffy (during Dressrosa) was stronger than Doflamingo. That is not a debate at all. However, being stronger is not the only way of winning a fight.
Stalling is a legitimate combat stratagem, particularly when the opposition has a time limit, and factoring in Doflamingo's awakened abilities, and the increase in stall time they provide, I'm pretty certain that a fully healthy Doflamingo would win against a healthy Luffy.
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The PIS comes from Luffy literally surviving everything Doflamingo did to him outside of being in Gear 4th. Doflamingo absolutely destroyed Luffy in base despite being injured, yet one of his more potent attacks--Flap Thread--didn't incapacitate or kill Luffy.
It also doesn't help Luffy when: 1) Doflamingo is durable enough to tank several hits while in terrible condition and still be capable of fighting, and 2) Luffy's ultimate attack puts a toll on his body.
Also, Wholecake Luffy scales to being at least equal to Dressrosa. I don't know where you guys get him being "stronger" outside of Tank-Man, which he wouldn't be able to use in this fight anyways since he isn't obese. Luffy is only going to win this with Whole-Cake version if we get to see an ability that actually has an affect in this fight. Tank-man is certainly not going to be a factor unless we drop a giant 10 million calorie cake in front of Luffy. (inb4 Doflamingo turns it to threads)
It also doesn't help Luffy when: 1) Doflamingo is durable enough to tank several hits while in terrible condition and still be capable of fighting, and 2) Luffy's ultimate attack puts a toll on his body.
Also, Wholecake Luffy scales to being at least equal to Dressrosa. I don't know where you guys get him being "stronger" outside of Tank-Man, which he wouldn't be able to use in this fight anyways since he isn't obese. Luffy is only going to win this with Whole-Cake version if we get to see an ability that actually has an affect in this fight. Tank-man is certainly not going to be a factor unless we drop a giant 10 million calorie cake in front of Luffy. (inb4 Doflamingo turns it to threads)
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If Luffy is given limitless stamina (or a 10 million calorie cake :3) before the fight, he can pretty much take his time and end Doflamingo after like... 30 minutes, otherwise--it's a battle of attrition, which Doflamingo wrecks in.
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That's not PIS, otherwise you can say doffy tanking G4 attacks with his organs messed up is PIS aswell, also Luffy in whole cake island is stronger then he is in dressrosa, He fought cracker for 11 hours which would have made him stronger and strawhats get stronger after each arc anyway, also to kavpeny I was saying Luffy could have attacked doffy just before his gear 4 ran out when doflamingo couldn't move and yet decided to just stare at him instead, and since this is a rematch you would assume it takes place after the first fight therefore in whole cake island, and if Luffy is stronger after each arc then he has a higher chance of beating doffy, if a opponent is far stronger then him then it wouldn't matter but as doffy and Luffy were close in strength Luffy getting stronger after dressrosa would matter, so no my logic doesn't say that every character will lose to Luffy eventually although technically they will since he's gonna be the strongest
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Uhm, you seem to not understand that Cracker scales to Luffy, who currently scales to his Dressrosa tier.
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if both are full power and healthy, luffy will still takes this extreme diff
his fight against cracker makes luffy learn how to use Gear 4th for a long fight effectively
he also have Tank Man form which without doubt strong enough to block Doffy's awakened technique (like 1000 arrows flap thread which **** him up badly)
not mention Luffy's haki/stamina in whole cake island saga is way higher than before
he single-handedly fought large numbers of Big Mom's army while starved to death, exhausted (due fighting cracker for 11 hours) and injured by Sanji's kicks. he lost though but he still have his consciousness.
his fight against cracker makes luffy learn how to use Gear 4th for a long fight effectively
he also have Tank Man form which without doubt strong enough to block Doffy's awakened technique (like 1000 arrows flap thread which **** him up badly)
not mention Luffy's haki/stamina in whole cake island saga is way higher than before
he single-handedly fought large numbers of Big Mom's army while starved to death, exhausted (due fighting cracker for 11 hours) and injured by Sanji's kicks. he lost though but he still have his consciousness.
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Lmao I don't care about who scales to who, common sense and evidence from the series >>>> this website, Luffy in whole cake island is stronger then the one in dressrosa, this is a fact, his long fight with cracker would have made him stronger, and we know the strawhats get stronger after each arc, since this is a fight from two characters from the same series who have actually fought each you look at manga evidence instead of this site, otherwise you would think law is the strongest when he isn't even top 30 strongest characters and even Luffy who has hardly any hax is stronger
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@Boome - Because Luffy has been consistently capable of harming Doflamingo throughout their fight. Whether or not I believe the fight to be PIS/CIS because Doflamingo should've killed Luffy with one (or several) of his attacks doesn't disprove that Luffy is shown physically superior to Doflamingo in Gear 4th and capable of putting up some sort of fight while in base. And there is also the fact that Doflamingo was toying with Luffy at the end of their fight--using parasito on him and simply mocking him, rather than finishing him off.
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Doflamingo extreme diff if speed is equalized...he has an awakening he can use to stall luffy to keep luffy from attacking him directly...he can also make clones which can be used to combat luffy and acheive the same purpose as i said before....Doflamingo's endurance was insane being able to take those repeated hits from g4 in succession...but that was a fatigued doffy who was having a battle with law just previous where his organs were messed up in the process(that was also part of the reason g4 punded him so easily).We know that signifcantly weakened doflamingo because luffy when he fought doflamingo in chaper 782 could actually damage doffy in g2...while luffy in chapter 745 who fought doflaming o could not.Point being that doflamingo would have higher resistance to G4s attacks and would take the beatings of g4 in rapid succession similarly to how it originally occured until g4 runs out. Kkg won't be of much help here as doffy has seen that attack before and once doffy sees luffy wind up he likely wouldn't attempt to take it head on and he will try to evade...since he'll forsee he'll probably be able to dodge it tho if it hits its lights out for doffy.....
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My answer is doflamingo extreme difficulty
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