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Garou vs Meruem
- Thread starter GyroNutz
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Also, Meruem MIGHT have some win conditions he could exploit if he uses his intelligence & powers properly. Although, I'm not hesitant to admit they'd be difficult to achieve. Garou learns fast among several other edges.
Garou can mimic powers, right? But he hasn't really shown any Chi Manipulation (Which is what we link to for Nen.) or something similar, no? Even if he can learn very fast, without being able to generate the type of energy needed (Which is from his opponent's 'verse, no less?) he wouldn't be able to use Nen-based powers without some equivalent to nen, right?
So with that in mind, I ask: What's Meruem's range/AoE with his energy projection with Rage Blast?
Unlike Garou, Meruem has Flight (& Teleportation, but I'm assuming that's based on his photons, & his Telepathy as well, which I'm also unsure on whether it'd gather info useful in combat.)
Regarding range:
Hero Hunter Garou:
Range: Standard melee range
Post-Rose Meruem:
Range: Extended melee range. Tens of kilometers via Nen techniques.
Garou has no way to reach Meruem if he just flies out of his reach. Not only that, with tens of kilometers range for his nen abilities, doesn't that apply to his En, too? Can Garou even SEE nen, or know it exists?
Quoting Meruem's profile about his Photon ability: "Meruem deploys these photons in his En in a flash, and then is able to instantly go to anything the photons reach"
https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Nen#E
His En being a field that he can track the locations of things in it, wouldn't this mean tens of kilometers where Meruem can sense & track the locations or distance from him of things in it, as well as teleport within that range?
Garou might understand how it works, but if Meruem can teleport to ANYWHERE within tens of KM himself, & Garou is limited to Standard Melee Range, he could easily keep out of range, especially with flight. Human range of vision IS 4 KM, isn't it? Isn't human range of vision 4 KM? What are Garou's enhanced senses?
Precognition requires he analyze his opponent, which is difficult when his opponent can disappear well into or out of his range of vision at a moment's notice in nearly any direction from him.
Incidentally, is Rage Blast a type of Nen attack visible to non-Nen users? If Garou can't see it, it may help him combined with teleportation.
Of course, there are problems with fighting at range, & preventing Garou from tracking him is Garou still skilled, fast; Unless Meruem's AoE is good enough, or uses his teleportation to go into blind spots when attacking, hitting Garou is difficult. (Or the Fear Aura from his Nen stops Garou dodging. Is that unlikely?)
The other problem is... how long does Post-Rose Meruem have to live, tops, if he NEVER takes damage from his poison? Could he live long enough to win such a battle of skill, disorientation & attrition?
A negligible advantage for Meruem, technically, is he has one more useable limbs than Garou, his tail. But I'm not sure how much skill he shows with it.
If he could eat some of Garou's flesh, he might be able to steal some powers. But what are both plausible and useful? And lol, how would he even say, damage Garou to get some of his flesh often? Maybe if his fear aura scared Garou long enough & he didn't dodge, or got an opportunity via teleportation?
Finally, one possible advantage is Lifting Strength.
Garou:
Lifting Strength: Unknow
Meruem:
Lifting Strength: Class M | Class M
Besides possibly having the Lifting Strength, & maybe flight & teleportation to be able to have a good shot at throwing Garou out of Earth's atmosphere, he might also be able to win via that, if he realizes it's his best option.
If his LS were known to be higher than Garou's (as opposed to unknown.) it could be used to restrain him, for example.
However, I'm unsure if Meruem's intelligence & Martial Arts (If it applies to his knowledge.) are enough to help him realize these win conditions.
Whether or not he could use LS to win at all (Whether he's likely to or not is another matter.) could also be more clear if Garou had a known LS rating.
I'd think it's difficult at best for Meruem to win. Garou is not an easy opponent at all to best, & I'm not sure it's feasible, in spite of Meruem's vast mobility & minor range advantages.
Garou can mimic powers, right? But he hasn't really shown any Chi Manipulation (Which is what we link to for Nen.) or something similar, no? Even if he can learn very fast, without being able to generate the type of energy needed (Which is from his opponent's 'verse, no less?) he wouldn't be able to use Nen-based powers without some equivalent to nen, right?
So with that in mind, I ask: What's Meruem's range/AoE with his energy projection with Rage Blast?
Unlike Garou, Meruem has Flight (& Teleportation, but I'm assuming that's based on his photons, & his Telepathy as well, which I'm also unsure on whether it'd gather info useful in combat.)
Regarding range:
Hero Hunter Garou:
Range: Standard melee range
Post-Rose Meruem:
Range: Extended melee range. Tens of kilometers via Nen techniques.
Garou has no way to reach Meruem if he just flies out of his reach. Not only that, with tens of kilometers range for his nen abilities, doesn't that apply to his En, too? Can Garou even SEE nen, or know it exists?
Quoting Meruem's profile about his Photon ability: "Meruem deploys these photons in his En in a flash, and then is able to instantly go to anything the photons reach"
https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Nen#E
His En being a field that he can track the locations of things in it, wouldn't this mean tens of kilometers where Meruem can sense & track the locations or distance from him of things in it, as well as teleport within that range?
Garou might understand how it works, but if Meruem can teleport to ANYWHERE within tens of KM himself, & Garou is limited to Standard Melee Range, he could easily keep out of range, especially with flight. Human range of vision IS 4 KM, isn't it? Isn't human range of vision 4 KM? What are Garou's enhanced senses?
Precognition requires he analyze his opponent, which is difficult when his opponent can disappear well into or out of his range of vision at a moment's notice in nearly any direction from him.
Incidentally, is Rage Blast a type of Nen attack visible to non-Nen users? If Garou can't see it, it may help him combined with teleportation.
Of course, there are problems with fighting at range, & preventing Garou from tracking him is Garou still skilled, fast; Unless Meruem's AoE is good enough, or uses his teleportation to go into blind spots when attacking, hitting Garou is difficult. (Or the Fear Aura from his Nen stops Garou dodging. Is that unlikely?)
The other problem is... how long does Post-Rose Meruem have to live, tops, if he NEVER takes damage from his poison? Could he live long enough to win such a battle of skill, disorientation & attrition?
A negligible advantage for Meruem, technically, is he has one more useable limbs than Garou, his tail. But I'm not sure how much skill he shows with it.
If he could eat some of Garou's flesh, he might be able to steal some powers. But what are both plausible and useful? And lol, how would he even say, damage Garou to get some of his flesh often? Maybe if his fear aura scared Garou long enough & he didn't dodge, or got an opportunity via teleportation?
Finally, one possible advantage is Lifting Strength.
Garou:
Lifting Strength: Unknow
Meruem:
Lifting Strength: Class M | Class M
Besides possibly having the Lifting Strength, & maybe flight & teleportation to be able to have a good shot at throwing Garou out of Earth's atmosphere, he might also be able to win via that, if he realizes it's his best option.
If his LS were known to be higher than Garou's (as opposed to unknown.) it could be used to restrain him, for example.
However, I'm unsure if Meruem's intelligence & Martial Arts (If it applies to his knowledge.) are enough to help him realize these win conditions.
Whether or not he could use LS to win at all (Whether he's likely to or not is another matter.) could also be more clear if Garou had a known LS rating.
I'd think it's difficult at best for Meruem to win. Garou is not an easy opponent at all to best, & I'm not sure it's feasible, in spite of Meruem's vast mobility & minor range advantages.
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Shit got interesting. Let me see.
>Garou vs Nen
Yes, Garou can't see Nen nor can copy it. But he can deflect energy based attacks via WSRSF. Even Suiryu without such technique could do so and Garou >>> Suiryu in technique. So while Garou can't copy Nen, he can dismiss every Rage Blast sent towards him.
It's true that Garou can't reach Meruem if he just flies away, but considering Meruem's slowly dying and Garou is reflecting everything he throws at him, this isn't a good option either. This actually makes things harder for Meruem because (even if he isn't aware of this) he can't affect Garou with the poison in his body.
IDK if Meruem can teleport in the range of his En, I think that these abilities works separated and Meruem's teleportation isn't combat applicable. Can't remember tho.
Dunno about Garou's Enhanced Senses, but since speed is equal little matters the maximum distance since the moment the Rage Blast comes he'll change its direction.
Dunno if Rage Blast is invisible. This actually caught me off guard. It probably isn't because some Nen users still need to use the Gyo? technique to see nen projections and it wasn't the case with Rage Blast IIRC.
No, it's not unlikely that Meruem's Fear aura works on Garou. With the range advantage that might be a thing.
Meruem lived for some hours IIRC. IDK if his Nen reserves are that big so him outlasting Garou is probably not likely considering how Garou wins the stamina match with no effort at all.
If Meruem wants Garou's flesh he would need to get close. IDK if Garou would remain the composure, but facing lots of scary monsters and powerful heroes non-stop is his thing so I'm not sure.
Meruem probably doesn't know that throwing the opponent to the space is a thing. I mean, it's for Boros who did it, but Meruem didn't show any sign nor intention of doing so.
I'm actually surprised that Garou has no LS listed on his profile. But he overpowered Tanktop Master who's Class K if that serves any purpose, so yeah, Meruem has that option, but knowing Garou's ingenuity he could free himself in one way or another.
Huh, well, I'm not sure now.
>Garou vs Nen
Yes, Garou can't see Nen nor can copy it. But he can deflect energy based attacks via WSRSF. Even Suiryu without such technique could do so and Garou >>> Suiryu in technique. So while Garou can't copy Nen, he can dismiss every Rage Blast sent towards him.
It's true that Garou can't reach Meruem if he just flies away, but considering Meruem's slowly dying and Garou is reflecting everything he throws at him, this isn't a good option either. This actually makes things harder for Meruem because (even if he isn't aware of this) he can't affect Garou with the poison in his body.
IDK if Meruem can teleport in the range of his En, I think that these abilities works separated and Meruem's teleportation isn't combat applicable. Can't remember tho.
Dunno about Garou's Enhanced Senses, but since speed is equal little matters the maximum distance since the moment the Rage Blast comes he'll change its direction.
Dunno if Rage Blast is invisible. This actually caught me off guard. It probably isn't because some Nen users still need to use the Gyo? technique to see nen projections and it wasn't the case with Rage Blast IIRC.
No, it's not unlikely that Meruem's Fear aura works on Garou. With the range advantage that might be a thing.
Meruem lived for some hours IIRC. IDK if his Nen reserves are that big so him outlasting Garou is probably not likely considering how Garou wins the stamina match with no effort at all.
If Meruem wants Garou's flesh he would need to get close. IDK if Garou would remain the composure, but facing lots of scary monsters and powerful heroes non-stop is his thing so I'm not sure.
Meruem probably doesn't know that throwing the opponent to the space is a thing. I mean, it's for Boros who did it, but Meruem didn't show any sign nor intention of doing so.
I'm actually surprised that Garou has no LS listed on his profile. But he overpowered Tanktop Master who's Class K if that serves any purpose, so yeah, Meruem has that option, but knowing Garou's ingenuity he could free himself in one way or another.
Huh, well, I'm not sure now.
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@Calaca Vs: Yeah, it's nice when a debate has some ambiguities to work out, & I appreciate you responding to my thoroughness in kind! 
It's thorough, thoughtful, & polite debates I enjoy most, since these are just for fun. ANYWAY....
"Meruem deploys these photons in his En in a flash, and then is able to instantly go to anything the photons reach."
Going by that info about the abity from his profile, they're instantly deployed in his nen, quickly, & he's able to go anywhere the photons reach? That isn't combat applicable??
In-character, is Meruem motivated to try & consume some of his foe? If he sees him predicting, sensing, adapting and attack reflecting without nen, those might incite him to try & sample Garou's flesh.
Another option for Meruem would be to try and get a bite of his opponent through more reckless means:
A question also comes up about Meruem's photons. Are they visible without nen? Could they be moved about as a visible distraction?
Alternatively, if Garou starts deflecting Rage Blasts or other projectiles (In the absurd event Meruem throws a rock, which, even for a strategy seems OoC.), Meruem could observe this habit; Supposing Meruem observes WRSRF, he could recognize the motions or style of it.
Regarding WRSRF:
Garou's profile says about it: "His technique also wasn't perfected to the point that he couldn't repel Superalloy Darkshine's attack before he started adapting." as well as that, "The martial art can repel the attacks of his opponents, nullify them, or redirect them with twice the power."
So where does Hero Hunter Garou (That we're using here) fall with regards to skill using it?
Fire a rage blast, EXPECTING it to be deflected, & since it's visible, deliberately fly through it.
Stamina: Extremely high (As stated in durability, Meruem was able to take thousands of attacks from Netero with minimal damage to his person whilst continuously attacking him)
Given his pain tolerance, he COULD try using his own attack being deflected to obscure his approach, since the attack would provide a visual obstruction, the motion to repel/nullify/deflect would leave Garou's limbs busy, & it might be unexpected to rush into & through your own attack while it's being deflected.
(Incidentally, Meruem is able to use Nen Manipulation, but I don't know if he can use techniques like Re or Ke to augment his durability, as his profile doesn't list them, nor Statistics Amplification. Would be useful for such tactics.)
The main point of such a reckless move of course, would be to catch Garou off-guard, perhaps to grab & restain him (Class M vs above Class K.) or to bite his flesh to try & absorb some of his powers, which might be something he'd want to do after seeing Garou's capabilities.
Regarding overpowering Tanktop Master, I'm not sure if it's enough to beat Class M.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darkanine/A_Calc_Request
Darkanine's puts it at 126,672 kg & Lina Shield's puts it at 152,171.63 kg.
Class K is 10^5 to 10^6 kg, or 100,000 to 1,000,000 kg. I'm not sure which was accepted but.... Well, how easily & through what means did Garou overpower Tanktop Master, & was it in a Lifting Strength way? Was overpowering the LS part of him getting serious, or while he was casual?
Even the larger of those two values is about 6.57 times lower than baseline Class M.
Also, Meruem does have his tail. Both are skilled & analytical, but if Meruem were to get Garou in a grab (Ignoring how he could move his nen about him to manage weak & strong points, since I dunno if he can/does use those nen techniques.), he has one limb more than Garou does through his tail. (Which might also be useable to bind or stab if he has Garou in a hold.)
Also, wow I missed this:
Also, dunno if Speed Equalized affects it, but both of them have high speed that means a lot of combat in a small timeframe.
Speed: At least High Hypersonic+, likely Massively Hypersonic (Superior to all other Chimera Ants, which includes Pitou) | Massively Hypersonic (His speed increased to 3 times the previous value)
Speed: At least High Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Genos, even when weakened. Outmaneuvered Metal Bat)
I dunno where speed is equalized to, but.... https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed High Hypersonic+ (The lowest speed in this match.) is Mach 50 to 100. If Google's math is right, that's 17,150 meters per second.
About 17.15 kilometers moved per second. They can do a LOT of combat in hours. Although, techniques that require time to execute may take up more time than moving, trading blows, etc.
Also, it brings up a question of HOW many tens of km Meruem's range is, since both of them are moving at 17.15 km / second. (Unless Speed Equalization is somehow slowing them down.)
Poor, poor Central Park, New Yo-Wait. Given that SBA puts that as the default for an unspecified location & says, in part:
Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities.
Central Park, being Real World, isn't of either 'verse. Does that mean the people & animals of Central Park, New York are present in this fight?
The likely deaths of the inhabitants, in this combat aside, Meruem has Regenerationn (Low-Mid, via consumption). Would that mean he could eat the animals/people of Central Park, New York for this purpose? Would he? Would it even help, given their likely low to zero nen content in the first place? Should location be changed?
It's thorough, thoughtful, & polite debates I enjoy most, since these are just for fun. ANYWAY...."Meruem deploys these photons in his En in a flash, and then is able to instantly go to anything the photons reach."
Going by that info about the abity from his profile, they're instantly deployed in his nen, quickly, & he's able to go anywhere the photons reach? That isn't combat applicable??
In-character, is Meruem motivated to try & consume some of his foe? If he sees him predicting, sensing, adapting and attack reflecting without nen, those might incite him to try & sample Garou's flesh.
Another option for Meruem would be to try and get a bite of his opponent through more reckless means:
A question also comes up about Meruem's photons. Are they visible without nen? Could they be moved about as a visible distraction?
Alternatively, if Garou starts deflecting Rage Blasts or other projectiles (In the absurd event Meruem throws a rock, which, even for a strategy seems OoC.), Meruem could observe this habit; Supposing Meruem observes WRSRF, he could recognize the motions or style of it.
Regarding WRSRF:
Garou's profile says about it: "His technique also wasn't perfected to the point that he couldn't repel Superalloy Darkshine's attack before he started adapting." as well as that, "The martial art can repel the attacks of his opponents, nullify them, or redirect them with twice the power."
So where does Hero Hunter Garou (That we're using here) fall with regards to skill using it?
Fire a rage blast, EXPECTING it to be deflected, & since it's visible, deliberately fly through it.
Stamina: Extremely high (As stated in durability, Meruem was able to take thousands of attacks from Netero with minimal damage to his person whilst continuously attacking him)
Given his pain tolerance, he COULD try using his own attack being deflected to obscure his approach, since the attack would provide a visual obstruction, the motion to repel/nullify/deflect would leave Garou's limbs busy, & it might be unexpected to rush into & through your own attack while it's being deflected.
(Incidentally, Meruem is able to use Nen Manipulation, but I don't know if he can use techniques like Re or Ke to augment his durability, as his profile doesn't list them, nor Statistics Amplification. Would be useful for such tactics.)
The main point of such a reckless move of course, would be to catch Garou off-guard, perhaps to grab & restain him (Class M vs above Class K.) or to bite his flesh to try & absorb some of his powers, which might be something he'd want to do after seeing Garou's capabilities.
Regarding overpowering Tanktop Master, I'm not sure if it's enough to beat Class M.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darkanine/A_Calc_Request
Darkanine's puts it at 126,672 kg & Lina Shield's puts it at 152,171.63 kg.
Class K is 10^5 to 10^6 kg, or 100,000 to 1,000,000 kg. I'm not sure which was accepted but.... Well, how easily & through what means did Garou overpower Tanktop Master, & was it in a Lifting Strength way? Was overpowering the LS part of him getting serious, or while he was casual?
Even the larger of those two values is about 6.57 times lower than baseline Class M.
Also, Meruem does have his tail. Both are skilled & analytical, but if Meruem were to get Garou in a grab (Ignoring how he could move his nen about him to manage weak & strong points, since I dunno if he can/does use those nen techniques.), he has one limb more than Garou does through his tail. (Which might also be useable to bind or stab if he has Garou in a hold.)
Also, wow I missed this:
- Metamorphosis: Meruem can give himself wings, extra eyes and limbs, and even recompose his entire body structure utilizing aura.
Also, dunno if Speed Equalized affects it, but both of them have high speed that means a lot of combat in a small timeframe.
Speed: At least High Hypersonic+, likely Massively Hypersonic (Superior to all other Chimera Ants, which includes Pitou) | Massively Hypersonic (His speed increased to 3 times the previous value)
Speed: At least High Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Genos, even when weakened. Outmaneuvered Metal Bat)
I dunno where speed is equalized to, but.... https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed High Hypersonic+ (The lowest speed in this match.) is Mach 50 to 100. If Google's math is right, that's 17,150 meters per second.
About 17.15 kilometers moved per second. They can do a LOT of combat in hours. Although, techniques that require time to execute may take up more time than moving, trading blows, etc.
Also, it brings up a question of HOW many tens of km Meruem's range is, since both of them are moving at 17.15 km / second. (Unless Speed Equalization is somehow slowing them down.)
Poor, poor Central Park, New Yo-Wait. Given that SBA puts that as the default for an unspecified location & says, in part:
Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities.
Central Park, being Real World, isn't of either 'verse. Does that mean the people & animals of Central Park, New York are present in this fight?
The likely deaths of the inhabitants, in this combat aside, Meruem has Regenerationn (Low-Mid, via consumption). Would that mean he could eat the animals/people of Central Park, New York for this purpose? Would he? Would it even help, given their likely low to zero nen content in the first place? Should location be changed?
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I agree. This match is awesome and I love it, so a joyful discussion is the cherry.
Well, IDK if Meruem needs to take the same time Pufu needed, but the long preparation of the technique makes it useless in a combat situation. Can't remember if Meruem has another timeframe.
For some reason he didn't eat Netero's leg when he had the chance, even when he recognized him as a worthy person of joining him, to the level that he said that him and Komugi were worth living rather than being food. So even if Garou can do that without Nen, I wouldn't say that Meruem'd eat him.
Meruem's photons can't be seen for Nen users. The smoke dude didn't see Pufu escaping from his smoke chamber due to the small size of it.
Yes, Meruem could recognize the pattern in Garou's style. He doesn't use it often in-character, but if he seems a KHH-kind of thing going towards him he'll use it to deflect it, giving Meruem the option to capitalize that and spam RB to make Garou use it, since he can't dodge the AoE with ease.
He falls on the first sentence. The fight against Darkshine happened a lot of time after that. Garou can still use the full description of the technique, but it has that limit.
Meruem lasted against Netero, yes, but it was pretty clear that Netero was doing minor damage to Meruem. He didn't do any serious damage until he used his strongest praise, and even that did little to the King. So while it's true that Meruem's stamina is high enough to give a fight, I'm not sure if he'd do that well against an attack that is comparable to himself.
No, Garou can't overpower Class M. I was listing a possible rating for his LS; but I concluded that he could get restrained with ease.
I don't think Meruem would eat an average human, considering his mindset at this point of the series of "growing the humankind potential to see what they can do". He could eat animals tho.
BTW; I think the Regenerationn came from eating Pufu and Yuupi's life force, which regenerated him after the Rose Bomb, so I don't think it's as powerful when consuming organisms without Nen.
Well, IDK if Meruem needs to take the same time Pufu needed, but the long preparation of the technique makes it useless in a combat situation. Can't remember if Meruem has another timeframe.
For some reason he didn't eat Netero's leg when he had the chance, even when he recognized him as a worthy person of joining him, to the level that he said that him and Komugi were worth living rather than being food. So even if Garou can do that without Nen, I wouldn't say that Meruem'd eat him.
Meruem's photons can't be seen for Nen users. The smoke dude didn't see Pufu escaping from his smoke chamber due to the small size of it.
Yes, Meruem could recognize the pattern in Garou's style. He doesn't use it often in-character, but if he seems a KHH-kind of thing going towards him he'll use it to deflect it, giving Meruem the option to capitalize that and spam RB to make Garou use it, since he can't dodge the AoE with ease.
He falls on the first sentence. The fight against Darkshine happened a lot of time after that. Garou can still use the full description of the technique, but it has that limit.
Meruem lasted against Netero, yes, but it was pretty clear that Netero was doing minor damage to Meruem. He didn't do any serious damage until he used his strongest praise, and even that did little to the King. So while it's true that Meruem's stamina is high enough to give a fight, I'm not sure if he'd do that well against an attack that is comparable to himself.
No, Garou can't overpower Class M. I was listing a possible rating for his LS; but I concluded that he could get restrained with ease.
I don't think Meruem would eat an average human, considering his mindset at this point of the series of "growing the humankind potential to see what they can do". He could eat animals tho.
BTW; I think the Regenerationn came from eating Pufu and Yuupi's life force, which regenerated him after the Rose Bomb, so I don't think it's as powerful when consuming organisms without Nen.
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Maybe someday it'll get animated in a way that'll do it justice. So yeah. Anyone know Meruem's timeframe to use photons, why he didn't eat Netero's leg?
"KHH-kind of thing"? Forgive me, what's KHH?
Any idea what their exact AP/SS/Durability statistics are for them in the keys in use here?
Also, decided to look into Meruem's wiki page about his nen capabilities:
https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Meruem#Ne Quotation of that section in collapsed text:
After he consumed part of the bodies of two of his Guards, Knuckle, upon witnessing his Re, assumed that his power could rival the firepower of an entire nation. He could perform Gyo shortly after birth without receiving instructions. (Hunter × Hunter - Volume 21, Chapter 216)
EHis Ren struck fear even in Netero's heart, and allowed Meruem to pry open the hands of 100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva as well as to emerge from Third Hand completely unscathed, whereas Netero's First Hand had previously caused him to spit blood.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 27, Chapter 290) This defensive application of Ren may imply he is capable of Ke.
The first time he used E, it covered an area much wider than the palace grounds and spread at the speed of light.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 29, Chapter 308)Despite its vastness, his control over it is so refined that he was able to discern changes in the environment as small as fresh footprints.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 30, Chapter 312)
At first unbeknownst to him, his En transmutes part of his aura into photons that relay information to him. When, after only two uses, he became aware of this trait of his En, he was able to turn it into a Nen ability.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 30, Chapter 314)
So, Meruem should be able to use Ren, Gyo, the HxH Wiki speculates he can use Ken, he can use En, & his En spread very far, very fast, & let him discern even small changes to the environment like fresh footprints.
Early on, his En also uses Transmutation on part of his aura to make photons that relay information. He learned of it after 2 uses & made it into a nen ability.
So I guess that's some testament to his skill. But it does does tell us he can use Ren, which has some use some utility for boosting offense & defense.
https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Nen#Re
Also, I'm not sure if it's applicable here, but....
"By tingeing one's Ren with hostility, a Nen user can exert what is colloquially referred to as "bloodlust". A prolonged emission of malicious Ren can induce uncontrollable dread in those who cannot use Nen, paralysis and, if contrasted without Ten, even death. On the other hand, a neutral Ren can rarely be felt by non-users."(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 6, Chapter 47)
Not sure it's on his profile, but could Meruem's Ren affect Garou in such a way? It definitely seemed to scare Youpi, IIRC. Or maybe it's just a fancy way of describing Fear Manipulation.
Shame not much of that is more controlled Nen management/movement.
"KHH-kind of thing"? Forgive me, what's KHH?
Any idea what their exact AP/SS/Durability statistics are for them in the keys in use here?
Also, decided to look into Meruem's wiki page about his nen capabilities:
https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Meruem#Ne Quotation of that section in collapsed text:
After he consumed part of the bodies of two of his Guards, Knuckle, upon witnessing his Re, assumed that his power could rival the firepower of an entire nation. He could perform Gyo shortly after birth without receiving instructions. (Hunter × Hunter - Volume 21, Chapter 216)
EHis Ren struck fear even in Netero's heart, and allowed Meruem to pry open the hands of 100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva as well as to emerge from Third Hand completely unscathed, whereas Netero's First Hand had previously caused him to spit blood.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 27, Chapter 290) This defensive application of Ren may imply he is capable of Ke.
The first time he used E, it covered an area much wider than the palace grounds and spread at the speed of light.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 29, Chapter 308)Despite its vastness, his control over it is so refined that he was able to discern changes in the environment as small as fresh footprints.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 30, Chapter 312)
At first unbeknownst to him, his En transmutes part of his aura into photons that relay information to him. When, after only two uses, he became aware of this trait of his En, he was able to turn it into a Nen ability.(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 30, Chapter 314)
So, Meruem should be able to use Ren, Gyo, the HxH Wiki speculates he can use Ken, he can use En, & his En spread very far, very fast, & let him discern even small changes to the environment like fresh footprints.
Early on, his En also uses Transmutation on part of his aura to make photons that relay information. He learned of it after 2 uses & made it into a nen ability.
So I guess that's some testament to his skill. But it does does tell us he can use Ren, which has some use some utility for boosting offense & defense.
https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Nen#Re
Also, I'm not sure if it's applicable here, but....
"By tingeing one's Ren with hostility, a Nen user can exert what is colloquially referred to as "bloodlust". A prolonged emission of malicious Ren can induce uncontrollable dread in those who cannot use Nen, paralysis and, if contrasted without Ten, even death. On the other hand, a neutral Ren can rarely be felt by non-users."(Hunter × Hunter - Volume 6, Chapter 47)
Not sure it's on his profile, but could Meruem's Ren affect Garou in such a way? It definitely seemed to scare Youpi, IIRC. Or maybe it's just a fancy way of describing Fear Manipulation.
Shame not much of that is more controlled Nen management/movement.
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KHH is Kame Hame Ha. So an energy blast kind of attack.
Garou's fairly above 9MT and Meruem survived to a 18MT bomb. I don't think he scales to the full yield even after getting revitalized tho.
Yeah, I made a joke about Garou and Meruem intimidating each other due to not having resistance to fear inducement but having the ability, so now that you reminded me of the range advantage, Meruem has that on his favor.
Garou's fairly above 9MT and Meruem survived to a 18MT bomb. I don't think he scales to the full yield even after getting revitalized tho.
Yeah, I made a joke about Garou and Meruem intimidating each other due to not having resistance to fear inducement but having the ability, so now that you reminded me of the range advantage, Meruem has that on his favor.
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Meruem DOES have win cons cause he IS hella smarter than Garou in terms of figuring out strategies. I just honestly see Garou overtaking him faster than Meruem figuring something out before that.
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Not sure about that he wasn't able to beat NeteroDragopentling said:
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He technically defeated Netero, actually. Only the bomb was able to deal with him and it wasn't even something related to Netero himself
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Regardless of whether or not that was planned, Netero's Rose Bomb was more like flipping the middle finger while dying.
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And if it wasn't for his minions he would have died
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Ugh, Garou FRA. Seeing all those L's on one of the greatest Shonen villains ever is giving me an ulcer
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He adapted to Netero's Hyakushiki Kannon in a matter of minutes, and Netero spent decades perfecting his fighting style. Netero gave everything he had and all he could do was give Meruem some scratches. Meruem on the other hand very casually tore off his limbs, and was only defeated because of a cheap trick.Shubham Sonsurkar said:
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Garou FRA.
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Thinking on it, I wonder if Meruem could also use Menthuthuyoupi's shapeshifting abilities to gain additional limbs, & use his tail, extra limbs & greater Lifting Strength to restrain Garou.
His fear manipulation being tied to his Ren (Which he should be able to turn on & off by controlling his Ren.) presumably being able to buff his stats could help. Especially since Fear Manipulation via Ren is said to be potent enough to paralyze or kill non-Nen users exposed to it.
@LordUrien935: Not that important to the match, IMHO, but do you mean all those losses on Garou, or Meruem? Garou has 1 loss, 1 inconclusive, 0 wins. Meruem has 3 losses, 0 inconclusives, 0 wins.
His fear manipulation being tied to his Ren (Which he should be able to turn on & off by controlling his Ren.) presumably being able to buff his stats could help. Especially since Fear Manipulation via Ren is said to be potent enough to paralyze or kill non-Nen users exposed to it.
@LordUrien935: Not that important to the match, IMHO, but do you mean all those losses on Garou, or Meruem? Garou has 1 loss, 1 inconclusive, 0 wins. Meruem has 3 losses, 0 inconclusives, 0 wins.
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Garou fra
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I'm talking about Meruem. He's lost to an emo kid, a Part 1 JoJo reject, and a lion girl from a trash anime show.
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Also, wouldn't Ten protect Meruem from Garou's fear inducement?
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Has Meruem shown he can use Ten? I know from https://hunterxhunter.fandom.com/wiki/Meruem#Ne that he can use Ren, Gyo, En, & maybe Ken, but is there evidence he can use Ten?
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but are the reasons to FRA Garou that:
1. Garou is scaled to higher statistics. (Although, Meruem using his Ren would amp his strength and durability.)
2. Poison won't matter to Garou.
3. Garou adapts faster. (Although Meruem has the intelligence advantage.)
Are there any other reasons for voting Garou?
My cases for Meruem are: Garou in this key only has Standard Melee Range level Range, & Meruem has tens of KM range, a ranged attack, flight, teleportation, more limbs (If you count the tail, & account for his shapeshifting.), easily better Lifting Strength, the aforementioned better smarts, & his fear manipulation, which is tied to his Nen, can paralyze/kill non-Nen users, & being based on his nen, Garou almost certainly can't see, nor sense.
(Also, Meruem might be able to heal &/or power absorb if he can bite into Garou. Given his teleportation, greater lifting strength (Ex: To hold Garou's limbs in place while he bites.) teleportation, & such.)
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but are the reasons to FRA Garou that:
1. Garou is scaled to higher statistics. (Although, Meruem using his Ren would amp his strength and durability.)
2. Poison won't matter to Garou.
3. Garou adapts faster. (Although Meruem has the intelligence advantage.)
Are there any other reasons for voting Garou?
My cases for Meruem are: Garou in this key only has Standard Melee Range level Range, & Meruem has tens of KM range, a ranged attack, flight, teleportation, more limbs (If you count the tail, & account for his shapeshifting.), easily better Lifting Strength, the aforementioned better smarts, & his fear manipulation, which is tied to his Nen, can paralyze/kill non-Nen users, & being based on his nen, Garou almost certainly can't see, nor sense.
(Also, Meruem might be able to heal &/or power absorb if he can bite into Garou. Given his teleportation, greater lifting strength (Ex: To hold Garou's limbs in place while he bites.) teleportation, & such.)
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Ten is one of the 4 basic principles of Nen. It's literally impossible to use Gyo, Ren, En, or Ken without mastering the 4 basics. Also, Meruem and the Royal Guards were stated to have been born with the ability to use Nen instantly so he should've been able to use Ten the moment he was born.
1. From what I'm gathering, Garou has a massive AP advantage that makes this match a borderline stomp, but if Ren can boost Meruem to make it so Garou won't one shot him, it's cool I guess.
2. Yeah, Garou took poison arrows while severely wounded, exhausted and on the brink of death and he still survived.
3. I don't know if Garou adapts faster. I mean, Meruem adapted to a fighting style that took around 80+ years to perfect.
Edited because I quoted a wall of text
1. From what I'm gathering, Garou has a massive AP advantage that makes this match a borderline stomp, but if Ren can boost Meruem to make it so Garou won't one shot him, it's cool I guess.
2. Yeah, Garou took poison arrows while severely wounded, exhausted and on the brink of death and he still survived.
3. I don't know if Garou adapts faster. I mean, Meruem adapted to a fighting style that took around 80+ years to perfect.
Edited because I quoted a wall of text
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Actually, I don't know how the Rose Poison will affect Garou. Yeah, he survived poison arrows, but I'd say there's a big difference against arrows and a nuclear bomb.
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No the posion is a side effect of the bomb for those who survived it and to help spread it.
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The Rose Bomb is a nuclear bomb except instead of a mushroom cloud, the cloud is shaped like a rose. The poison is just an extra surprise, intended to kill as many living things as possible.
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Schnee One said about Meruem: "1 megaton is Low 7BGyroNutz said:
He scales to possibly being able to survive 18 Megatons."
It was also stated Meruem is baseline. Presumably this means baseline 7-B in AP, right?
Hero Hunter Garou is way above 9 Megatons, right?
So doesn't this mean Garou has Durability over 9 times higher than Meruem's AP?
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Meruem is at least Low 7-B, possibly 7B. He is definitely at the level of 1 megaton and possibly at the level of 18 megatons.
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You know what? Since I don't think anyone besides me gave reasons for Garou winning I'm gonna turn this "Garou FRA" train switching my vote to Meruem.
Imaginym convinced me of his advantages, since I forgot how versatile a Nen user can be in battle and the massive range advantage. Meruem could just grab Garou and restrain him with his Tail until split him in half with strength alone. IT wouldn't be easy, but definitely possible. That alongside range spam, similar skill with massively superior intelligence, similar stats that can be amped, etc.
Imaginym convinced me of his advantages, since I forgot how versatile a Nen user can be in battle and the massive range advantage. Meruem could just grab Garou and restrain him with his Tail until split him in half with strength alone. IT wouldn't be easy, but definitely possible. That alongside range spam, similar skill with massively superior intelligence, similar stats that can be amped, etc.
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@Calaca Vs: I'm glad I've proved persuasive.
Although, not entirely sure how WELL he can attack from range; His options are limited to Rage Blast, which might be taxing on his stamina, & I suppose chucking rocks. (Not sure.) It's unclear if his teleportation is combat applicable.
Also, Garou can reflect attacks with the WSRSF fist. Although, Meruem could learn to track the motions, & given that his range with nen -Presumably including photons, which can track shape- is "tens of kilometers" he could learn to recognize Garou's shape when he's using WSRSF. The fact that at their slowest, both parties are moving over 17 km per second means tens of KM range might be less relevant, too.
But yeah. Meruem's intelligence, versatility via nen & range, & lifting strength to restrain help. Especially if restraining lets him eat some of Garou. His fear manipulation also help, & his nen MIGHT be useful in defending against attempts to break out of his grasp.
(There's also whether Garou's adaptation is faster/better, considering Meruem adapted to Netero's, who's fighting style took 80 years to perfect, didn't it?)
Come to think of it, how DOES Garou's Fear Manipulation work? Being paralyzed in fear is a detriment to either side.
I THINK Meruem has the capability to win this. But I value a thorough debate.
Although, not entirely sure how WELL he can attack from range; His options are limited to Rage Blast, which might be taxing on his stamina, & I suppose chucking rocks. (Not sure.) It's unclear if his teleportation is combat applicable.
Also, Garou can reflect attacks with the WSRSF fist. Although, Meruem could learn to track the motions, & given that his range with nen -Presumably including photons, which can track shape- is "tens of kilometers" he could learn to recognize Garou's shape when he's using WSRSF. The fact that at their slowest, both parties are moving over 17 km per second means tens of KM range might be less relevant, too.
But yeah. Meruem's intelligence, versatility via nen & range, & lifting strength to restrain help. Especially if restraining lets him eat some of Garou. His fear manipulation also help, & his nen MIGHT be useful in defending against attempts to break out of his grasp.
(There's also whether Garou's adaptation is faster/better, considering Meruem adapted to Netero's, who's fighting style took 80 years to perfect, didn't it?)
Come to think of it, how DOES Garou's Fear Manipulation work? Being paralyzed in fear is a detriment to either side.
I THINK Meruem has the capability to win this. But I value a thorough debate.
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Was the feat already accepted?
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Switching to Meruem FRA
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So should I close this?
- Status
