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Garou Versus Arishem

TaiwaneseScaler

TaiwaneseScaler

371
111
Last edited:
To copy what I said in the Garou vs Celestials thread:
Copying his opponent stats is actually not his first move. Looking at all of his four fight/exchange of attacks:
  • in his first battle against Saitama he started fighting normally before actually copying him with "Mode: Saitama".
  • in his battle against Blast, he never actually copied his statistics. He copied the Gravity Knuckles, which is him copying a technique, not the statistics, which is his "Modes".
  • in the Serious Punch Squared scene, he copied Saitama's stats, but because that was specifically his objective after seeing his power, wanting to replicate it to defeat him.
  • in the battle on Io, he actually fought normally for a decent amount of time before going for the Mode: Saitama.
Modes, aka his copying stats ability, is not his to go move. His first thing is fighting normally to see the abilities of his opponent and to undestand if they are worth of copying or not, which means that he gets killed by superior AP, Range and LS before he can actually copy since he will first fight normally.
Against Arishem he have more chances of victory since he is not Galaxy sized, but Arishem's first move is to paralize with TK, which have Universal LS, and to use his Modes he apparently needs to move a bit (or at least he seems since he moves his hands near his face all the times he does it) so this might be a problem. Arishem can one shot, but if Garou copies him after realizing he can't deafet him normally he might have a shot at this (if he can use his modes without moving, of course), so I am neutral on this.
 
ThanatosX said:
in his first battle against Saitama he started fighting normally before actually copying him with "Mode: Saitama".
Click to expand...
This is Parallel Timeline key, not his base. He was still testing out his newfound powers at that point. That is not applicable hjere.

Furthermore, his entire plan in base was to get Saitama to become serious so he could copy him.
ThanatosX said:
in his battle against Blast, he never actually copied his statistics. He copied the Gravity Knuckles, which is him copying a technique, not the statistics, which is his "Modes".
Click to expand...
He had no need to copy Blast's statistics. He is stronger than Blast, what is your point? Why would he copy the strength of someone weaker than him?

Him copying Gravity Knuckle and Hyperspace Gates is proof that copying is a go-to move for him, however. It does not support your argument whatsoever.
ThanatosX said:
in the Serious Punch Squared scene, he copied Saitama's stats, but because that was specifically his objective after seeing his power, wanting to replicate it to defeat him.
Click to expand...
So we agree that Parallel Timeline Garou's objective is to copy the stats of people stronger than him.
ThanatosX said:
in the battle on Io, he actually fought normally for a decent amount of time before going for the Mode: Saitama.
Click to expand...
He had already copied Saitama's previous level of strength and thus did not need to copy him constantly. Saitama afterwards began growing exponentially which he why he switched to copying him again.

ThanatosX said:
Modes, aka his copying stats ability, is not his to go move. His first thing is fighting normally to see the abilities of his opponent and to undestand if they are worth of copying or not, which means that he gets killed by superior AP, Range and LS before he can actually copy since he will first fight normally.
Click to expand...
He has extrasensory perception based on perceiving energy. He can perceive the power levels of his opponent. That's why he didn't copy Blast, and why he immediately sought to copy a serious Saitama.

The moment Arishem attempts to use his AP, it's copied.


All in all, you are still very wrong about the tactics of Garou in his parallel (peak) form.
 
Phoenks said:
This is Parallel Timeline key, not his base. He was still testing out his newfound powers at that point. That is not applicable hjere.

Furthermore, his entire plan in base was to get Saitama to become serious so he could copy him.
Click to expand...
Exactly. His entire plan was to make Saitama use his full strenght because he saw how powerful he was and wanted to copy him. It's not like he wanted to copy him just because.

Phoenks said:
He had no need to copy Blast's statistics. He is stronger than Blast, what is your point? Why would he copy the strength of someone weaker than him?

Him copying Gravity Knuckle and Hyperspace Gates is proof that copying is a go-to move for him, however. It does not support your argument whatsoever.
Click to expand...
And how exactly would he know that Arishem is stronger than him, exactly? Why would he already know that there is a one-shot gap between them? Why would you assume that in this situation he would act like he did with Saitama, someone that he fought against for several minutes while he was still evolving, rather than how he acted with Blast, considering that just like with him he wouldn't know anything about him?

And copying Gravity Knuckles and Hyperspace Portals are an entire different thing. With those he is copying techniques, with Modes, which is what is being argued here, he copies statistics.

Phoenks said:
So we agree that Parallel Timeline Garou's objective is to copy the stats of people stronger than him.
Click to expand...
Yes... And how would he know how strong Arishem is, exactly?

Phoenks said:
He had already copied Saitama's previous level of strength and thus did not need to copy him constantly. Saitama afterwards began growing exponentially which he why he switched to copying him again.
Click to expand...
While using "Modes" he have the face of the person he is copying the statistics of. During the whole fight, he never had that. And at that point he still didn't understood that Saitama was evolving too, so why exactly would he copy his stats since, for him, his power didn't change since before?

Phoenks said:
He has extrasensory perception based on perceiving energy. He can perceive the power levels of his opponent. That's why he didn't copy Blast, and why he immediately sought to copy a serious Saitama.
Click to expand...
Where is it ever stated? Because this seems like an assumption and nothing more. He can perceive the energy flow of the Universe, not of his opponent, otherwise he would already know he didn't have any chance of fighting Saitama regularly during his battle on Io and would have gone for the Mode immediately.

Phoenks said:
The moment Arishem attempts to use his AP, it's copied.
Click to expand...
His first move is to paralyse the target with TK, which have Universal LS. And if Arishem uses his AP is any form, Garou is dead before he can even copy that.

Phoenks said:
All in all, you are still very wrong about the tactics of Garou in his parallel (peak) form.
Click to expand...
I am stating what happened. It's you who is making many assumptions.
But I already know that in a second there will be a FRA train in favor of Garou because he is more popular, completely ignoring any context regarding his Modes or anything. I am so tired of this shit. I am out.
 
ThanatosX said:
Exactly. His entire plan was to make Saitama use his full strenght because he saw how powerful he was and wanted to copy him. It's not like he wanted to copy him just because.
Click to expand...
So you agree that he wanted to copy Saitama due to his strength? The same thing he would do against an opponent stronger than him? You are agreeing with what I'm saying.
ThanatosX said:
And how exactly would he know that Arishem is stronger than him, exactly? Why would he already know that there is a one-shot gap between them? Why would you assume that in this situation he would act like he did with Saitama, someone that he fought against for several minutes while he was still evolving, rather than how he acted with Blast, considering that just like with him he wouldn't know anything about him?
Click to expand...
ESP.
ThanatosX said:
Yes... And how would he know how strong Arishem is, exactly?
Click to expand...
ESP.
ThanatosX said:
Where is it ever stated? Because this seems like an assumption and nothing more. He can perceive the energy flow of the Universe, not of his opponent, otherwise he would already know he didn't have any chance of fighting Saitama regularly during his battle on Io and would have gone for the Mode immediately.
Click to expand...
On his page. He can sense the flow of energies, which would allow him to sense the strength of his opponents.

otherwise he would already know he didn't have any chance of fighting Saitama regularly during his battle on Io and would have gone for the Mode immediately
Click to expand...

He went for Mode after Saitama showcased an even greater level of power than what he had previously copied.
 
Just something to know Arishems TK works like this (He needs to be able to see the target he can't just use it from like Uni distance lol).
So it isnt a stomp just yet. Hyperspace can be used if Arisehm uses TK since it doesnt require Garou to move.

Just something to know.
 
TaiwaneseScaler said:
Just something to know Arishems TK works like this (He needs to be able to see the target he can't just use it from like Uni distance lol).
So it isnt a stomp just yet. Hyperspace can be used if Arisehm uses TK since it doesnt require Garou to move.

Just something to know.
Click to expand...
Didn’t he use it on the eternals like from a galaxy away or something?
 
I don't see any valid reason to vote Arishem here, Garou will copy him instantly while the argument here is that he wouldn't which is false
 
MCU celestials are kinda weak sauce tbh.


Only chance this guy has is to nuke Garou before he can adapt and Garou's win cons are much more viable.
 
ThanatosX said:
And how exactly would he know that Arishem is stronger than him, exactly?
Click to expand...
Friendly reminder that Garou watched as all Saitama do, was about to sneeze right in front of him, and he still knew to immediately get out of the way because he knew said sneeze would kill him.
 
After Reviewing the only argument made for Arishem that I could possibly see him winning against Garou with (Immobilization with TK). I believe Garou wins this. Arisehsm Telekinesis can only be used with opponents that he can directly see and from the clip we can see that the Telekinesis has a Planetary-Large Planet level range max. Now don't get me wrong I'm certain that Arishem would immobilize Garou right at the start of the battle and attempt to just One shot. Though Garou has a weirdly convenient wincon here (Hyperspace Gates). He can summon these gates without movement (An energy sphere appears on his finger and a portal just summons. There are many scans where it seems like he can just summon them at his whim with a thought). If Arishem tried pulling Garou to him Garou would just summon a hyperspace gate and get out of his range of TK (He has Interplanetary range for Hyperspace Gates far exceeding the Planetary-Large Planet level range Arishem has with his TK). If he attempted it agian the same process would repeat itself. Eventually Arishem would just go in for an attack or use another technique which just gets copied and we all know what happens from there.

But yea this is just my take.

I believe Garou wins this.
 
Pretty sure all of his abilities have Universal range so I'm gonna disagree on that aspect of the argument. If it were only planetary range then it'd be noted on the profile.


Even with that, Garou FRA. Hyberspace Gates make a good counter to Paralysis Inducement and he can copy his stats and surpass them.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Arishem FRA
Click to expand...
Mr.Reaper Man I know you didn't just read this and say Arishem FRA.

My bro, Garou slaps this guy badly with his kit 😭 He can copy everything he has going for him and give it back ten-fold.
 
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