Garou vs Celestials

[Phoenks]

This actually seems like a pretty fair fight. Let's do it.

Garou - Absolute Evil

VS

Celestials - Creators of the Universe

Speed Equalized • 3-C Garou • SBA

Celestial AP: Far above baseline galaxy level.
Garou AP: Far above 6.9x baseline galaxy level.

 

[Robo432343]

we are using all 35 celestials

 

[Phoenks]

we are using all 35 celestials

I mean honestly... I don't know how they win against Garou.

I made this match to see if I'd be proven wrong.

Garou holds the AP advantage and can copy things like cosmic energy pretty effortlessly. He can also exponentially grow, and already scales multiple one-shot values above 7x baseline galaxy level.

Gonna wait for the opposition.

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah I can't see how Garou loses this. He's like a better Celestial lol.

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah I can't see how Garou loses this. He's like a better Celestial lol.

Literally yeah. He can just gain all of their abilities and become stronger than them.

 

[ThanatosX]

This match should be interesting.
So, first of all, let's get two of Garou's stuff out of the way. His passive radiations wont work on a Celestial considering that they already resists high level of radiations and, most importantly, they are too big to be affected by them since even assuming a Planet range for his radiations it would still be too little to affect something that is galaxy sized. The same applies for Garou's portals, since he have no feat of being able to create galaxy sized portals.
For AP, I am not sure were Garou scale since his calculation is in joules and I find the values written in tons to be of easier understanding, so I can't express myself on that. Unfortunately there is no proper calculation for where the Celestials scales, but they are Galaxy level because of simply their size, and with their power they were shown to be able to create galaxies or galaxy sized suns in seconds, so they technically should be a bit higher than baseline. But I will say that a calc for them would be helpful, honestly.
And the AP argument is also an interesting one since there is also the problem that Garou doesn't have the AoE/Range to fully affect their body. A punch, for example, in the arm of a Celestials would damage him because of the AP, but considering that, at best, the AoE would be planet size (aka a grain of sand compared to his full body) it wont be able to kill him in a single hit, at least imho obviously.
Now, for the power mimicry, that won't be huge advantage since the Celestials main powers come from their huge size and their Cosmic Energy powers. Assuming that he can copy the Cosmic Energy, that wouldn't make that much of a difference since, as said before, it's that alongside their size and their ridicoulous range that allows them a cosmic level manipulation, on it's own Cosmic Energy wont be of big help as seen with human sized characters that use it, which allows them to just create energy at best and little more.
And the main problem with Garou's skills being used here is, once again, the size of the opponent. As seen with Watchdog Man, he have problems to adapt to fighting style that aren't human-like. The Celestials' huge size will be problematic for Garou before he can eventually adapt to it during the course of the match.
For the Celestials, their main advantage is their huge size and the big Lifting Strenght. Their main wincons would be creating a galaxy-sized Sun, which have enough of a gravitation pull to create a galaxy in seconds, and if Garou gets caught in it he would be killed by both the gravity (since he doesn't have the LS necessary to survive) and the immense heat. They can also create Black Holes to suck him in and kill him with that, and their last main wincon is to just grab him with LS (and considering how big they are they can just close their hand in his general direction and they are more than likely to grab him).
Overall, the main advantage for each are that Garou have the AP necessary to kill them, a huge skill advantage and a powerful RE, but lack the range and AoE to fully affect them, while the Celestials have on their side the size, a big LS advantage and a general range since they can cover entire galaxies with their bodies. I would personally go with a Incon, since either Garou understand that he needs a good hit in the face to kill them or the Celestial create a Sun and kill him with that first, both of which are likely to happen. Though this is just my general opinion on this match, so anyone can disagree with me (and also i think this might be the only comment I make in this since I am not sure of how much time I have to discuss).

 

[Zabazab]

Garou has literally been inside a black hole so gravity/BHs aren't harming him. Additionally his range is intergalactic so harming the Celestials whole body isn't a challenge.

 

[BoastJr]

Garou could still escape using interdimensional portals (Both their LS and Massive Sun Creation stuff) and he does have a decent range although I am not quite sure how Big are the celestials since their profiles mention them dwarfing galaxies

 

[ThanatosX]

Garou has literally been inside a black hole so gravity/BHs aren't harming him. Additionally his range is intergalactic so harming the Celestials whole body isn't a challenge.

There is Black Hole and Black Hole. The gravitational pull of a human sized Black he like the one created by Garou, imho, shouldn't be comparable to the one of a Supermassive Black Hole or a galaxy sized Sun that have enough gravitational pull to create a galaxy in a instant.
Also, for the Intergalactic range, it should be put into a bit of prospective. The one that that his shockwaves reach such range was when Blast redirected the Energy produced by the Serious Punch Squared, when he fight he have never shown feats of being able to produce such big shockwaves casually. Sure, it's something that he might be able to do, but not something that he was shown to do with his normal attacks, but only when the attack of his energy is being redirected or, in general, when he is mimicking Saitama.
Lastly, I am unsure if he is able to create a portal if he doesn't have the space to do so (in the case he is grabbed, I mean) but he can use it to escape the gravitational pull of the Sun. However, he would still need to keep his distance since said gravity would still be there, and he should also be extremely aware of the huge mass of the Celestials and the gravitational pull that comes from said mass, considering they seems to have a mass so high that one had a Galaxy attached to his back.

 

[Dragonite007]

There is Black Hole and Black Hole. The gravitational pull of a human sized Black he like the one created by Garou, imho, shouldn't be comparable to the one of a Supermassive Black Hole or a galaxy sized Sun that have enough gravitational pull to create a galaxy in a instant.

The tidal forces at the event horizon of a stellar-mass black hole are much more violent than around a supermassive black hole. A human falling into a supermassive black hole wouldn't be spaghettified

 

[Robo432343]

isn't garou just getting outnumbered here?

 

[Epiccheev]

That Garou image looks raw.
Any kind of calc for these mfers will probably yield very high, but so far the AP disadvantage is real.
The real problem is their size. The Energy burst only got that far because Blast deflected it, otherwise it would be an omnidirectional explosion of unknown size, but far smaller than a galaxy.

 

[LordGinSama]

Uh why tf did I read this as Garou vs Celestial Dragon's???

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Uh why tf did I read this as Garou vs Celestial Dragon's???

the celestial dragons stomp. Whitebeard said the one piece is real, which under ultima's revisions, would make the one piece 1-A. However, the celestial dragons made everyone think the OP didnt exist or was fake, meaning the celestial dragons are 2 layers into ultimas new 1-A tier.

 

[Epiccheev]

Uh why tf did I read this as Garou vs Celestial Dragon's???

Bro dreams with Luffy every night

 

[Phoenks]

The tidal forces at the event horizon of a stellar-mass black hole are much more violent than around a supermassive black hole. A human falling into a supermassive black hole wouldn't be spaghettified

Yeah and the singularity is the exact same, which Garou has experienced before. He'd be completely fine.

Garou would also be fine inside of a star for the same reason. The pressure inside of that isn't going to kill him since it's just gravity which he had an infinite resistance to. He could also just blow up the star and it wouldn't really do anything either. And then there's the space gates. Like, he has plenty of ways to avoid these things.

Garou could create stars as well and most likely mimic the entirety of their creation abilities.

He also doesn't get outnumbered since going by their current stats Garou will quickly just one shot all of them with exponential growth and intergalactic shockwaves.

 

[Phoenks]

His heat resistence is not sufficient to make him survive the high temperatures of a Sun, so if he ends up inside the galaxy sized Suns he wouldn't survive.

He can survive nuclear fissions that reach 100 million degrees (hotter than the center of the sun) and be near a Gamma Ray Burst which is billions. You're being ridiculous.

Also, the Intergalactic shockwaves aren't exactly something that he can replicate when he wants, considering that he never did something like that during his fight with Saitama and the only time he did something like that was when his and Saitama attacks were redirected by Blast.

He wasn't trying to punch shockwaves out. And most of his fists were connecting with Saitama so all of the energy from transferring into him. And his punches are going to reverberate throughout the entire Celestial.

I stand by my previous opinion that this is an Incon since Garou lacks the AoE to actually affect them in a significant way despite the AP advantage, and with this I think I wont comment further to not stonewall the thread, since I already said my piece of mind.

He objectively has sufficient AoE range, the AP advantage, the copying advantage, and literally every advantage aside from lifting strength. All of your arguments are damn close to being nonsense, or willingly disingenuous. Like you really said Garou can't survive inside of a star without taking a second to look at his heat resistance.

 

[ThanatosX]

I don't agree with Garou resisting the Black Hole or the pressure of a Sun, but I don't want to discuss this too much since I like Garou so I will concede and move on.
Meanwhile, Garou's heat resistence is not high enough to make him survive the high temperatures of a Sun, so if he ends up inside one of the galaxy sized Suns he will die by heat, while the Celestials will not be affected by them if Garou used Power Mimicry to copy their abilities since they resist it.
Meanwhile, the intergalactic shockwaves aren't exactly something that he can replicate when he wants, during his fight with Saitama he never used something like that and the only time he did reach such range was when Blast redirected the Serious Punch Squared, which is a specific situation.
I stand by my previous opinion that this is a Incon since Garou lacks the AoE necessary to fully kill them despite the AP advantage, and with this I will probably not comment further since I don't want to stonewall by repeating the same arguments and I already gave my piece of mind.

 

[ThanatosX]

He can survive nuclear fissions that reach 100 million degrees (hotter than the center of the sun) and be near a Gamma Ray Burst which is billions. You're being ridiculous.



He wasn't trying to punch shockwaves out. And most of his fists were connecting with Saitama so all of the energy from transferring into him. And his punches are going to reverberate throughout the entire Celestial.



He objectively has sufficient AoE range, the AP advantage, the copying advantage, and literally every advantage aside from lifting strength. All of your arguments are damn close to being nonsense, or willingly disingenuous. Like you really said Garou can't survive inside of a star without taking a second to look at his heat resistance.

I deleted my comment seconds after posting it because I was unsure if I should have continued the debate or not and you still managed to reply to it? Damn it, now the discussion looks weird...
But just to reply to some of your stuff, they can replicate any kind of star, and considering the mass a galaxy sized star would have I am pretty sure being inside one would be extremely hotter than the Sun that we know.
The argument of the shockwaves is not convincing to me. Again, the only time that he used such shockwaves was when an attack of his was being redirected, he himself never shown to be able to replicare any of this by himself and assuming that he can is, to me, reach.
And as said before, him copying the Cosmic Energy wont make a difference if he doesn't have the size or range necessary. Other human sized characters had this kind of energy, like Peter Quill, and they are unable to perform such feat because of their lack of range.
As said in my first comment, all of this is just my opinion. You can disagree, there is no need to be aggressive over this or belittle my honest opinion on this match. I have seen or read the entirety of both the MCU and OPM, so I am speaking using what I know of both characters, if you disagree that's completely fine, my opinion wont change the course of the match if other agrees with you anyways.
And with this I wont actually reply any further since I don't to participate in discussion that becomes too aggressive This is why I am always scared of discusing versus threads.

 

[Dragonite007]

I

.

The MCU Celestials are clearly not just 3-C

As the title says, I have 0 idea on how the Celestials are just this tier. Celestials can dwarf galaxies in size, and they are able to create and displace[3] galaxy-sized suns[7] and black holes.[6] They are the progenitors of the universe as we know it, creating the buildings blocks of all of...

vsbattles.com

 

[Phoenks]

But just to reply to some of your stuff, they can replicate any kind of star, and considering the mass a galaxy sized star would have I am pretty sure being inside one would be extremely hotter than the Sun that we know.

Can you prove it that it would be above the two billion degrees of a Gamma Ray Burst or the hundreds of millions produced by fission explosions?

Because by assumption it'd just not be that hot. "Main sequence stars have a core temperature of 10 million Kelvins. Red giants have a core temperature of 100 million Kelvins."

I don't agree with Garou resisting the Black Hole or the pressure of a Sun

You would need to make a CRT.

The argument of the shockwaves is not convincing to me. Again, the only time that he used such shockwaves was when an attack of his was being redirected, he himself never shown to be able to replicare any of this by himself and assuming that he can is, to me, reach.

You might as well assume he can't even replicate his 3-C attacks then since not every attack is blowing a hole in the sky.

This happens in every series with cosmic level characters. The artists will showcase their feats a few times to allow the readers to gauge their strength. But they aren't going to be destroying every piece of the universe as they fight because it's unnecessary.

This is the same logic people always like to use to say shounen protagonists are building level because they don't constantly depict high showings of feats.

---


Anyway, Celestials should be upgraded. Making a galaxy-sized star or black hole is 3-B, if not 3-A. Not even close to 3-C.

 

[BoastJr]

so is this thread a Dud ? or do we still continue to treat this as a versus thread with the current statistics for the sake of the debate

 

[Phoenks]

It's a dud. With current stats Garou probably stomps in all honesty. The Celestials don't have a way to kill him. He is like Zab said, a Celestial but better.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Celestials are now 3-B with Universal LS

 

[Phoenks]

Celestials are now 3-B with Universal LS

Yeah, so the fight is a stomp now.

 

[Recon1511]

Not anymore, Garou can copy their AP and LS lol

 

[Robo432343]

bro he gets stomped before he can do that

 

[Recon1511]

bro he gets stomped before he can do that

Speed is equalized and the first thing he does against a superior enemy is copy

 

[ThanatosX]

Copying his opponent stats is actually not his first move. Looking at all of his four fight/exchange of attacks:

• in his first battle against Saitama he started fighting normally before actually copying him with "Mode: Saitama".
• in his battle against Blast, he never actually copied his statistics. He copied the Gravity Knuckles, which is him copying a technique, not the statistics, which is his "Modes".
• in the Serious Punch Squared scene, he copied Saitama's stats, but because that was specifically his objective after seeing his power, wanting to replicate it to defeat him.
• in the battle on Io, he actually fought normally for a decent amount of time before going for the Mode: Saitama.

Modes, aka his copying stats ability, is not his to go move. His first thing is fighting normally to see the abilities of his opponent and to undestand if they are worth of copying or not, which means that he gets killed by superior AP, Range and LS before he can actually copy since he will first fight normally.
To make things worst, for SBA the starting distance is 4 km... Against galaxy sized opponent. Earth will already be destroyed before the fight starts, and all the Celestials need to do is move slightly forward and Garou is dead. On top of this, can he even copy them considering that he can't fully see them? He would just see their torso or their feet, how can he copy something that he can't even fully see?
I don't know if this is a stomp or not, but it seems it still is. If not, I'm for voting the Celestials, but I already know Garou will win since the popular character always win.

 

[Phoenks]

Garou stomps match should be closed.

 

[Phoenks]

Thanatos you are wrong about Garou.

The entire time he was fighting Saitama his goal was to get him to use his full strength so he can copy him.

And in the parallel timeline at his peak, he was spamming mode:Saitama the whole time.

The moment Celestials showcase their power he copies it and just... Wins.

 

[ThanatosX]

Again, the moment they show their power he is already dead. With Saitama he fought for a long time during his evolution and saw how powerful he was, and as such he tried to copy him, and even then he did it after fighting him for a bit (I am talking about his first fight on Earth, to be precise). He knew how strong he was because he fought him for a long time and as such he attempted to copy him. Did he copy Blast? No. Why should he instantly copy something that he objectively doesn't know anything about, exactly? Even in the Parallel Timeline he started spamming Mode: Saitama the moment he understood he couldn't beat him with his own power, and even says it. Assuming that he instantly uses his Modes is just a way to justify a victory and nothing else, nothing implies even slightly that he usually instantly goes for the Modes.
Meanwhile, the Celestials literally just move slightly forward and Garou is dead. He can't portal away without a point of reference, as seen when he needed the Sun as a point of reference to portal away to Earth, so he can't even escape a Galactic Range attack that comes his way the moment the fight start (since again, for SBA the fight start at 4km of distance, the Celestial would be literally on him the moment the battle begins). And again, why exactly should it be assumed that he can use "Modes" of something he can't even fully see?

 

[Phoenks]

I really don't feel like going through this. Parallel Timeline Garou copies literally everything. He copied blasts' attacks immediately. He copied Saitama's serious punch immediately. The moment he senses the Celestials he's going to copy their level of power immediately.

It's a stomp once he does that as he can do literally everything they can but better.

The same reason he won last time.

 

[ThanatosX]

He copied blasts' attacks immediately

Copying a technique is not the same as copying the statistics. The second one is done with the Modes, the first is not.

He copied Saitama's serious punch immediately.

Context is key. He copied him because he specifically saw his power, he fought him for a long time when he was still evolving (Garou, I mean). He knew his power very well, and as such he wanted to copy him. He specifically says that he wanted to copy him because of his strenght, something that he saw first hand. And again, even then during the battle on Io he still fought him normally for a while before he started to use his Mode to copy his stats, and he did it only because he was getting overwhelmed. Mode is not something he does immediately. Is there anything that points towards him just copying as a first move against an opponent he know nothing about? No, there is not. And in fact, he never use Mode: Blast or anything while fighting him.

The moment he senses the Celestials he's going to copy their level of power immediately.

Him copying the power is based on him seeing the opponent use said power. He copied Blast's Gravity Knuckles and Hyperspace Portal only after seeing them, not because he sense him and instantly copied him.
And again, you are ignoring all other points. The moment the fight start the Celestial just needs to move forward and Garou is dead, and there is no evidence of Garou being able to copy something that he can't fully see.
If you think this is a stomp in favor of Garou it's fine, I think that it's a pretty clear cut win for the Celestials.

 

[Phoenks]

Copying a technique is not the same as copying the statistics.

That wasn't my point. My point was he copies - it's literally his entire thing. He didn't have a need to copy Blast statistics but he still copied his techniques, which is further proof of his standard move being to copy whatever he sees.

Context is key. He copied him because he specifically saw his power, he fought him for a long time when he was still evolving (Garou, I mean). He knew his power very well, and as such he wanted to copy him. He specifically says that he wanted to copy him because of his strenght, something that he saw first hand. And again, even then during the battle on Io he still fought him normally for a while before he started to use his Mode to copy his stats, and he did it only because he was getting overwhelmed. Mode is not something he does immediately. Is there anything that points towards him just copying as a first move against an opponent he know nothing about? No, there is not. And in fact, he never use Mode: Blast or anything while fighting him.

Garou was STRONGER than Blast. Why are you making this argument? He would NOT do Mode: Blast because he can sense power and he is stronger than him.

Everything else you said in this entire paragraph just supports my argument that Garou's objective is immediately going to be copying a power he senses is superior to himself.

Him copying the power is based on him seeing the opponent use said power. He copied Blast's Gravity Knuckles and Hyperspace Portal only after seeing them, not because he sense him and instantly copied him.

He would see the Celestial's power and copy it.

And again, you are ignoring all other points. The moment the fight start the Celestial just needs to move forward and Garou is dead, and there is no evidence of Garou being able to copy something that he can't fully see.

Speed is equalized. Garou can move back at the same speed a Celestial moves forwards.