Garou GRB Speed CRT

[Recon1511]

Hm, I'll get this rolled back later.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Agree with the OP. We don’t just cherrypick which parts of the GRB to keep and which parts to ignore

 

[Phoenks]

Strongly disagree with this, frankly petty, CRT.

Garou surpasses what he copies. He was fighting an opponent many times faster than him while he himself was many times faster than light. He also explicitly told Saitama that he couldn't dodge it, inferring that to an extent he did believe in its ability to hit Saitama from a distance, which would also infer he did believe in its speed. The AoE was big but not big enough to where Saitama wouldn't of been able to dodge it with his velocity. Garou was also blatantly trying to get Saitama to use his full power and speed so he could copy it, so it does not make sense to say he was dishing out an attack that he knew Saitama would be able to easily evade.

We accept this as being a GRB in every manner hence why he has its AP.

No, we actually don't. We accept it as being a GRB in potency only, since it was compared in potency specifically to a real GRB and that's what makes the most sense contextually. Hence why we don't consider its size when scaling it, when it is actually much smaller than a real GRB. It is your CRT that is attempting to change this.

Another thing. The source of Garou's "copying" is his own martial arts and inherent strength amplified by the power of God. When he becomes stronger, his attacks grow stronger alongside him. That's why he's able to create larger nuclear fission explosions after copying Saitama's strength. With that in mind, it does make a lot of sense to scale his attacks to himself in terms of statistics. And I do not see it the other way. Nothing will change my mind on that.

Even aside from all that, the entire idea of Garou launching a long-range projectile attack that's slower than himself physically is nothing short of ridiculous to me. Imagine pulling out a gun to shoot someone from hundreds of meters away just for the bullet to be multiple times slower than your running speed.

 

[Chariot190]

I’m saying that it doesn’t need to share the speed of the grb because we know he can copy the AP of one and surpass it
Garou can copy any technique and surpass it, he said it himself, and the nukes growing in speed and power just prove it

That, isn't true? That's like saying because he copied Saitama, if he replicated a 9-B sonicboom, that 9-B sonicboom is actually 3-C.
He can copy something ABOVE a GRB, that being Saitama, but when did it EVER say his GRB surpassed the best to exist irl? In fact, it evidently, and demonstrably, did not, given its way, way, smaller.

Stop extrapolating and making false equivalences.

the Black Hole appearing also proves that he copied the properties of an actual grb.

Glad you agree, hence it's Rel+.

On the contrary, all we know is that Garou can copy it and surpass it, we would have no reason to believe that the grb is weaker or slower than an actual one,

Not true. They never say his replication of energy leads to it always being better.

The GRB is weaker because, according to you, it isn't actually identical, and if it isn't identical we, just like EVERYTHING ELSE, would calc it as we see it, which makes it far, far lower, like tier 5. Because we literally did that before deciding it was identical to an actual one.

The reason would be it'd be lower because it's smaller, and ****, we don't even accept the shit you're going off on atm, that's why it's only "possibly 4-B", because we don't accept his replication will always be the best ever, but take away it being identical? And he wouldn't even have that lmao.

Now, of course, I'm fine with handwaving the size and saying it's identical to irl, bu by that same assumption, we gotta treat the speed the same.

while we very explicitly do have evidence that the properties of his copied techniques increase in potency
he can’t be slower or weaker than what he copies, but yes, he can get faster. It’s just that simple.

Actual cope argument. His Mode isn't the same as the replication of natural energies, you should know this, he was talking about Mode and copying Saitama's fisticuffs in that instance.
And, again, nothing argument. Where's the feats? Where's the statements? You're arguing out of your personal belief, Ziller, I quite frankly don't care what you THINK it should be, either it is, or it isn't.
It has no feats.
It has no scaling.
It's demonstrably smaller.
We accept it as being identical.

Either it's 1:1, or it's a featless wonder, your personal wishes do not change this.

Subrel is still rather impossible for a nuke to reach in my knowledge, so the point still stands that his techniques grow in speed.

It's a big ass explosion in a manga that has established that explosions can be whatever the **** speed they want a billion times over, but so?

We aren't talking about NF, we're talking about a very specific irl cosmic event that he replicated, that we treat as 1:1, and due to that, is why he has 4-C, 4-B to begin with.

Stop talking about NF, that shit derailing, and hell, if you want me to argue it should be rated too, I will.

Which is, of course, ignoring that we already know for a fact that his techniques grow in speed as he himself does, while you are arguing that gamma ray burst is restricted to being a realistic one

1. That isn't true, when did it EVER say that his replicated phenomena had enhanced speed? Rhetorical question, they never say that, you're extrapolating that because one technique has fast as **** explosions, that means everything he replicates must be magnitudes above, which is a hilarious extrapolation and honestly? Wank.
2. Yes actually, because that's the WHOLE reason he's 4-C to 4-B and why we accept the irl realistic rad properties and more. Either we treat it as a GRB, or we do not, you're cherry picking.

The fact is, we can say it’s the same one minute and then say it’s faster and stronger the next. Why? Because that’s literally what Garou’s is explicitly stated to do, as well as what we visually see him do.

Yeah, himself, physically

And even when I said that the power of his attacks grows as he does, that doesn’t mean that the grb being small means anything.

It actually does because that's how a GRB is calculated

We have a visible example that his DC isn’t the same as his AP, unless you want to argue that Garou literally threw out a tier 6 nuke at saitama immediately after a tier 4 to 3 clash.

And that nuke did literally nothing to Saitama each time so yeah sure why not

He can mimic something without mimicking its size, he can copy something 1:1 and then have magnified properties immediately after, and he can steal a technique and make it stronger and faster, because these are things he has all done, it’s really that simple.

Lol no? He can mimic something and make it smaller, that does not mean it's magically equal in strength, they never say that, we just assume it because it's implied to be an actual one and as such, we treat it 1:1 with irl. Take that away and bro we'd be going back to before we accepted that.
He can steal a technique and make it better, newsflash, a GRB isn't a technique and isn't apart of his "Modes" but of his ability to replicate and manipulate all energy flows
It's only that simple if you don't even know how Garou works my dude.

It’s a grb, and it can be a stronger and faster grb, it’s that simple.

It can be stronger (if it was way the **** bigger), quicker though? What next you're gonna tell me Garou could make sound 10x faster than sound?

Him copying watchdog man’s movements doesn’t mean he’s forever cursed to jump around at 250 miles per hour,

You are confusing physical shit done via Modes, with a COMPLETELY different ability. And again, this ain' a "technqiue", it's an actual irl phenomenon he's just making happen.

and him copying a grb doesn’t mean he’s cursed to have sol attack speed when using it.

It actually does? If Garu copied a beam of light to attack, that shit is going to be SoL, not ******* MFTL, think before you say this shit man.

Anyway you have no real arguments, all you did was conflate Modes with his energy manip (NOT the same ability), confuse actual techniques with irl phenomena, fail to understand how a GRB even functions, make false equivalences with a big ass explosion that has an actual feat with the featless GRB that is rated ENTIRELY on the assumption it's identical with irl and thus it's we do or don' with no-inbetween, saying he "perfects" stuff so it's better even though that's talking about Modes last I checked (and even then, that doesn't mean he's magically getting magnitudes better btw, just that it's at its peak, which would still be Rel+, because that's a GRB's peak). AND it doesn't even scale to him due to no real feats anyway so it'd be just "Unknown" which is even worse than being Rel+.

Ziller, you're coping man, it's no different than Joseph having stinky stand speed too, shit sucks but it be like it do.

Hm, I'll get this rolled back later.

Roll back his AP too then

 

[Planck69]

Agree with the OP. Can't have your cake and eat it. Either it's a 1:1 GRB and this goes for all its statistics or or it isn't and it's just another attack that scales to his speed.

 

[LordTracer]

I’m still retired from this verse but I agree with the OP, byeeeeeeee

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That, isn't true? That's like saying because he copied Saitama, if he replicated a 9-B sonicboom, that 9-B sonicboom is actually 3-C.
He can copy something ABOVE a GRB, that being Saitama, but when did it EVER say his GRB surpassed the best to exist irl? In fact, it evidently, and demonstrably, did not, given its way, way, smaller.

Stop extrapolating and making false equivalences.

Glad you agree, hence it's Rel+.

Not true. They never say his replication of energy leads to it always being better.

The GRB is weaker because, according to you, it isn't actually identical, and if it isn't identical we, just like EVERYTHING ELSE, would calc it as we see it, which makes it far, far lower, like tier 5. Because we literally did that before deciding it was identical to an actual one.

The reason would be it'd be lower because it's smaller, and ****, we don't even accept the shit you're going off on atm, that's why it's only "possibly 4-B", because we don't accept his replication will always be the best ever, but take away it being identical? And he wouldn't even have that lmao.

Now, of course, I'm fine with handwaving the size and saying it's identical to irl, bu by that same assumption, we gotta treat the speed the same.

Actual cope argument. His Mode isn't the same as the replication of natural energies, you should know this, he was talking about Mode and copying Saitama's fisticuffs in that instance.
And, again, nothing argument. Where's the feats? Where's the statements? You're arguing out of your personal belief, Ziller, I quite frankly don't care what you THINK it should be, either it is, or it isn't.
It has no feats.
It has no scaling.
It's demonstrably smaller.
We accept it as being identical.

Either it's 1:1, or it's a featless wonder, your personal wishes do not change this.

It's a big ass explosion in a manga that has established that explosions can be whatever the **** speed they want a billion times over, but so?

We aren't talking about NF, we're talking about a very specific irl cosmic event that he replicated, that we treat as 1:1, and due to that, is why he has 4-C, 4-B to begin with.

Stop talking about NF, that shit derailing, and hell, if you want me to argue it should be rated too, I will.

1. That isn't true, when did it EVER say that his replicated phenomena had enhanced speed? Rhetorical question, they never say that, you're extrapolating that because one technique has fast as **** explosions, that means everything he replicates must be magnitudes above, which is a hilarious extrapolation and honestly? Wank.
2. Yes actually, because that's the WHOLE reason he's 4-C to 4-B and why we accept the irl realistic rad properties and more. Either we treat it as a GRB, or we do not, you're cherry picking.

Yeah, himself, physically

It actually does because that's how a GRB is calculated

And that nuke did literally nothing to Saitama each time so yeah sure why not

Lol no? He can mimic something and make it smaller, that does not mean it's magically equal in strength, they never say that, we just assume it because it's implied to be an actual one and as such, we treat it 1:1 with irl. Take that away and bro we'd be going back to before we accepted that.
He can steal a technique and make it better, newsflash, a GRB isn't a technique and isn't apart of his "Modes" but of his ability to replicate and manipulate all energy flows
It's only that simple if you don't even know how Garou works my dude.

It can be stronger (if it was way the **** bigger), quicker though? What next you're gonna tell me Garou could make sound 10x faster than sound?

You are confusing physical shit done via Modes, with a COMPLETELY different ability. And again, this ain' a "technqiue", it's an actual irl phenomenon he's just making happen.

It actually does? If Garu copied a beam of light to attack, that shit is going to be SoL, not ******* MFTL, think before you say this shit man.

Anyway you have no real arguments, all you did was conflate Modes with his energy manip (NOT the same ability), confuse actual techniques with irl phenomena, fail to understand how a GRB even functions, make false equivalences with a big ass explosion that has an actual feat with the featless GRB that is rated ENTIRELY on the assumption it's identical with irl and thus it's we do or don' with no-inbetween, saying he "perfects" stuff so it's better even though that's talking about Modes last I checked (and even then, that doesn't mean he's magically getting magnitudes better btw, just that it's at its peak, which would still be Rel+, because that's a GRB's peak). AND it doesn't even scale to him due to no real feats anyway so it'd be just "Unknown" which is even worse than being Rel+.

Ziller, you're coping man, it's no different than Joseph having stinky stand speed too, shit sucks but it be like it do.

Roll back his AP too then

Seeing now that there’s way too many staff agreements already I might as well give up arguing this for now, but I am still wholly unconvinced by all of what I’m seeing and will get back once this threads gets a sequel

 

[Chariot190]

Strongly disagree with this, frankly petty, CRT.

"hey man that aint how GRBs work"
"make a crt about"
"ok ig"
"wow petty"
Uh huh ok

snip

Am I the only person who knows that Mode and him replicating an actual irl phenomenon is not the same thing???????
Like surely I'm not the only person here who actually read OPM.

No, we actually don't. We accept it as being a GRB in potency only, since it was compared in potency specifically to a real GRB and that's what makes the most sense contextually. Hence why we don't consider its size when scaling it, when it is actually much smaller than a real GRB. It is your CRT that is attempting to change this.

Yeah, based on the premise that his, and it, are the same thing. It was compared to an actual one, hence we assumed they were identical, hence the AP.
You're jumping through hoops just to loophole the very, very, obvious shit and what everyone agreed with in context.

Another thing. The source of Garou's "copying" is his own martial arts and inherent strength amplified by the power of God. When he becomes stronger, his attacks grow stronger alongside him. That's why he's able to create larger nuclear fission explosions after copying Saitama's strength. With that in mind, it does make a lot of sense to scale his attacks to himself in terms of statistics. And I do not see it the other way. Nothing will change my mind on that.

So you're admitting refusal to change your stance no matter what evidence or arguments are presented? Very professional.

Anyway, again, techniques =/= actual irl phenomena.
NF =/= the featless wonder that kinda hardlocks itself.

Even aside from all that, the entire idea of Garou launching a long-range projectile attack that's slower than himself physically is nothing short of ridiculous to me. Imagine pulling out a gun to shoot someone from hundreds of meters away just for the bullet to be multiple times slower than your running speed.

At the time, he wasn't MFTL yet actually, so yeah slower, but not a bunch which when coupled with its HUGE AOE, yeah no it's actually a viable attack. If anything him not using it again, despite spamming NF later, implies that yeah maybe once he got way quicker it DID become a tad obsolete.
Not that it matters, we don't rate shit like that? We need feats and concrete scaling "i think i should scale" means nothing.

Imagine pulling out a gun to shoot someone from hundreds of meters away just for the bullet to be multiple times slower than your running speed.

A gun the size of like a few hundred meters yeah.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

But in regards to that “his saitama mode isn’t the same technique as him mimicking natural phenomena” since that comes up in more threads than just a minor one like this I’ll say


Yes, yes it is. He just does the mode thing because it sounds cool, but both are the same thing.

 

[Dragonite007]

A gun the size of like a few hundred meters yeah.

"Few Hundred Meters"

 

[Chariot190]

But in regards to that “his saitama mode isn’t the same technique as him mimicking natural phenomena” since that comes up in more threads than just a minor one like this I’ll say


Yes, yes it is. He just does the mode thing because it sounds cool, but both are the same thing.

No it isn't? We had like ten threads about that shit when those Ch's dropped.

His mimicry, and his cosmic awareness that enables him to freely manipulate all energy within the universe in order to replicate phenomena like gravity manip, wormholes, nuclear fission and thread title, are, while quite similar, not the same thing.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

No it isn't? We had like ten threads about that shit when those Ch's dropped.

His mimicry, and his cosmic awareness that enables him to freely manipulate all energy within the universe in order to replicate phenomena like gravity manip, wormholes, nuclear fission and thread title, are, while quite similar, not the same thing.

proof?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I actually agree with the CRT, if my lil' help to it wasn't clear enough.

 

[Chariot190]

"Few Hundred Meters"

There are a few story chunk of building below it in panel 1.
Panel 2 we see it extend outwards.
Panel 3 takes up the entire panel.

Few hundred might be much ig, but nah that shit huge.

 

[Chariot190]

proof?

different names
different functions
one has absolutely **** all to do with universal energy and manipulating to replicate natural phenomena like wth even sort of question is that it's him copying stats and using his martial prowess to copy techniques

 

[ZillertheBucko]

different names
he literally just calls them modes because it sounds cool

The modes are literally just him utilizing a martial arts thing called shakkei and then giving it a name because it sounds cool. The only difference between him and snakebite snek is that he physically changes as a result, which is literally a result of his universal phenomena manipulating pseudo reality warping shit and has absolutely nothing to do with “mode” being anything special.

 

[Chariot190]

The modes are literally just him utilizing a martial arts thing called shakkei and then giving it a name because it sounds cool.

Yes, aka, NOT what he does to manipulate energy forms. Aka him, in DIRECT reference to his, in direct reference to perfecting a punch, isn't means to say shit like "yeah man, Garou would perfect sound manip so it's MFTL".

Hell perfecting just means its at its best, perfected light aint gonna be FTL for example, even if we went with this faulty comparison.

The only difference between him and snakebite snek is that he physically changes as a result,

Which is a pretty notable difference ngl, might be a red flag.

which is literally a result of his universal phenomena manipulating pseudo reality warping shit and has absolutely nothing to do with “mode” being anything special.

Which is precisely why that doesnt happen in any instance when he replicates energy phenomena

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Anyways can someone explain why a squad of like 5 staff jumping out of other verses as well as retirement jumped on for “gamma ray burst attack speed revision” while there are multiple starving threads including a verse wide mechanic crt and speed scaling affecting multiple characters

 

[CloverDragon03]

I comment on threads that interest me. If you’re trying to twist this into being some staff witch hunt against OPM, it’s not working

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I mean popular threads get more involvement. Just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyways can someone explain why a squad of like 5 staff jumping out of other verses as well as retirement jumped on for “gamma ray burst attack speed revision” while there are multiple starving threads including a verse wide mechanic crt and speed scaling affecting multiple characters

Upgrades lame, Downgrades cool.

It's something I learned the hard way.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I comment on threads that interest me. If you’re trying to twist this into being some staff witch hunt against OPM, it’s not working

Nobody said it was a witch hunt, because that’s implying I’m whining about mass downgraded or something, its just that a buncha people offsite noticed that one of the least relevant thread topics got an absolutely gargantuan amount of staff to vote in like the first hour when somewhat important revisions are just on hold for weeks to months

 

[Chariot190]

Idk man, I just made this because Emirp mentioned it, I went oh shit he right, and Phoenks was like nuh uh make CRT, there aint any colluding if that's what you think
I guess it's because it's a Garou CRT and like, kinda straightforward?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Man my sausage is straight forward in your mother fr
someone gas up my Melzargard Threads

 

[CloverDragon03]

…Can you like, not?

 

[Chariot190]

Man my sausage is straight forward in your mother fr

That's very offensive given some irl complications

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Agree FRA

 

[Worthless]

I don't understand the opposition argument that essentially denies the very concept of Garou ability. It's stated and shown multiple times that he copies the AP of stuff he replicated and then makes it stronger and better than the original. Ziller even gave an example that showcases this fact. What makes GRB exceptional in this regard?

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

My opinion is the same as my initial one. Agree. but I sill call bs on sub relavalistic+ speed added to Garou's actual stats rather than just in a description or note since GRB doesn't pertain him to a separate tier.

But staffs voted agree so I won't object further.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't understand the opposition argument that essentially denies the very concept of Garou ability. It's stated and shown multiple times that he copies the AP of stuff he replicated and then makes it stronger and better than the original. Ziller even gave an example that showcases this fact. What makes GRB exceptional in this regard?

The fact that isn't even true?
Modes =/= the energy shit. Which is what his scans were actually talking about, in fact, he's talking about having copied Saiama's punching technique
The nuclear fission has feats, they don't say "oh he makes it better fr", it just so happens to have feats of being huge. GRB, does not, it doesn't have any feats actually, if we treated it like the NF, it'd be lower than an actual GRB due to being absolutely minuscule, and in fact, is how he used to be rated.
The ONLY reason it's 4-C to 4-B is because we treat it as 1:1, we stop doing that and that shit would be hard downgraded without even getting MFTL as a trade-off because it doesn't even scale to him anyway because that shit don't got any feats.

So yeah, it doesn't actually have any statements his energy manip replication works like that, and if we stop treating it 1:1 and instead as we see it, it'd just be flat downgraded on all accounts.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't understand the opposition argument that essentially denies the very concept of Garou ability. It's stated and shown multiple times that he copies the AP of stuff he replicated and then makes it stronger and better than the original. Ziller even gave an example that showcases this fact. What makes GRB exceptional in this regard?

The Modes he uses (like Mode: Saitama) aren't the same thing as this. And given that this is legit meant to be a true Gamma Ray Burst in every aspect, that should apply to its speed too. You can't just cherrypick which aspects of a GRB you want to keep

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah I fully agree with this CRT, you don't get to say "this is X power because it should be taken as the real thing!" And then say "oh but not THAT part of it!"

If it ain't 1:1 with the IRL GRB then it's like 5-A or High 5-A but MFTL+.

Or it is 1:1 with the IRL GRB and its High 4-C possibly 4-B but Relativistic+.

Pick your poison OPM peeps, you went for tier 4 Garou, now deal with the side effects of your miniscule tomfoolery

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agree with the OP.

 

[LordGinSama]

If we accept it as a legitimate GRB then yeah, we'd also have to accept it's speed.

 

[Worthless]

Modes =/= the energy shit.

His mode and energy mimicry in Cosmic are the extension of his ability to copy and refine any skill he has replicated. But okay.

 

[Chariot190]

Uh, his cosmic stuff is actually a byproduct of God-given power and gifted cosmic awareness that enables him to manipulate all naturally occurring energy and thus replicate any phenomena, while Mode is just shakkei on crack as stated by himself, but sure whatever.

 

[Worthless]

The only things God has given Garou are the knowledge of the universe and comic energies that pushed his mimicry to the next level.

 

[Damage3245]

This is fine.

 

[Robo432343]

Is it time yet

 

[Emerald]

I agree this is peak