Garou GRB Speed CRT

[Chariot190]

GRB's have a specific speed, that of near light. And as an indexing wiki, if a notable attack or technique has differing speed values, we list it as well, most commonly seen with the likes of weapon users like guns, dudes who uses lightspeed attacks, and more, such as Stands.

As such, I propose, to accurately convey his speed with this specific scientific irl event, to list his speed as

• "Massively FTL (Exchanged strikes[2] with Saitama, who had previously created a constellation around Io with his speed[4]), Varies with Power Mimicry, higher with Reactive Evolution, Relativistic+ with Gamma Ray Burst ([link to whatever science article that says as much, there's a lot but idk which sites trustworthy to link so....])
• (1, 2) Here's two courtesy of Strym.

(Alternatively put it right before Power Mimicry, whatever ends up looking better).

And before anyone says "why would he use an attack that is slower than him?", because it is an actual irl thing so we don't get to use that excuse, and, to be fair, at the time he used it he wasn't MFTL yet, just upscaling very high above FTL which coupled with its AOE, would still make it a decent attack option.

We accept this as being a GRB in every manner hence why he has its AP, we don't suddenly get to ignore its speed for the **** of it, that's blatant cherry-picking.
Not to mention, so? Nothing even says or confirms it being MFTL like him, he became Cosmic Fear, and tested his cosmic powers out by replicating a GRB.

That's it, it wasn't meant to be some fast attack, but rather a display of his manipulation over cosmic forces (and ig being huge as all hell), couple that with Saitama, actually reacting to it and putting his hands up to block it or the fact Saitama was just trying to make sure it didn't hit the Earth... Yeah nah it can't be a realistic GRB and also have a completely unrealistic speed thousands of times above what it should have.

Agree: Me , Kin201, Emirp sumitpo
Disagree:

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

Bro actually did it

 

[StrymULTRA]

Speed of Light with Gamma Ray Burst ([link to whatever science article that says as much, there's a lot but idk which sites trustworthy to link so....])

It shouldn't even be Light Speed, but Relativistic+, as GRBs are barely above 99.9% lightspeed (1, 2)

 

[Chariot190]

It is what it is I suppose.

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

I agree. But it doesn't need to be specified in the profile for example we don't scale his NF explosion speed there it doesn't need to be specified here as well. We could just add a note saying that the Cosmic Phenomena he emulates scale to the real thing or smth. Though its already there for GRB

Guess the new strat for Garou is to use GRB then Hyperspace his opponent to the AOE or smth.

 

[Chariot190]

I mean, it's a named attack, with its own potency and stats.
He even has AP for it. If it's listed as AP, it needs to be listed accordingly.

 

[Kin201]

I agree.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

I mean, it's a named attack, with its own potency and stats.
He even has AP for it. If it's listed as AP, it needs to be listed accordingly.

It was scaled as AP because it brought an entire higher tier for Garou. If the speed is Sub relavistic+ and the feat doesn't grant a higher tier for Garou then it doesn't need to be added to the profile, i.e then we would need to add Subsonic for Nuclear Fission and other arbitrary feats that don't even scale Garou to a separate tier.

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

Im fine with a bunch of Notes or even a revision on the GRB description but adding it to the speed category is just opting.

 

[Robo432343]

Im fine with a bunch of Notes or even a revision on the GRB description but adding it to the speed category is just opting.

no it needs to be in the speed category so new members or members in general cant argue about GRB being MFTL or some shit in vs threads
a lot of people don't notice that type of stuff in the notes section

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

no it needs to be in the speed category so new members or members in general cant argue about GRB being MFTL or some shit in vs threads

Exactly thats why it should be added in notes. Conditions for Time Travel for Vs threads were also put in notes. This isn't an exception. Specifically, things for vs threads should be put in notes or specified in the attack description.

 

[Chariot190]

It was scaled as AP because it brought an entire higher tier for Garou. If the speed is Sub relavistic+ and the feat doesn't grant a higher tier for Garou then it doesn't need to be added to the profile, i.e then we would need to add Subsonic for Nuclear Fission and other arbitrary feats that don't even scale Garou to a separate tier.

Same here, it brings a whole different speed, it just happens to be lower. We list things if they're a different tier, not just higher.
We index shit, not just big numbers, hell we even have a whole rating for rating things lower, just as we have "Higher", we have "Lower".

As long as we lst GRB in his stats, it needs to be listed as a whole.

 

[Chariot190]

Exactly thats why it should be added in notes. Conditions for Time Travel for Vs threads were also put in notes. This isn't an exception. Specifically, things for vs threads should be put in notes or specified in the attack description.

That's ass too ngl but that's for another time.

Also details on how an ability works =/= attack speeds which we're actively meant to list.

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

Same here, it brings a whole different speed, it just happens to be lower. We list things if they're a different tier, not just higher.
We index shit, not just big numbers, hell we even have a whole rating for rating things lower, just as we have "Higher", we have "Lower".

As long as we lst GRB in his stats, it needs to be listed as a whole.

"Lower" is if it grants him an entirely lower tier perfect example for this would be Phoenix Man where he decreases, his overall stats the maximum speed and power he can go is decreased. It doesn't grant Garou into an entirely different tier though. e.g he is still far above FTL the exception being his Cosmic Phenomena emulation which don't grant him an entire lower tier. GRB, NF, and any attack that Garou has that have their own scaling would just be put in their notes or description. If GRB were to be scaled in Garous speed then it would need to alter Garous actual stats, Garou would only need to be scaled to Sub relavalistic+ if that was the maximum speed, he himself could go at the time but it doesn't change his speed Just grants higher tier AP for Garou. If Garous GRB speed were to be scaled together it would need to be. Just like Anos and Venuzdonoa they are scaled together because it puts Anos into an entirely diffrent Ball Park of Power actually altering his stats and his tier.

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

That's ass too ngl but that's for another time.

Also details on how an ability works =/= attack speeds which we're actively meant to list.

We just add the attack speeds for the Phenomena in the notes and description as they don't scale Garou himself and put him in a separate tier. Just have their own scaling and functions.

 

[Chariot190]

snip

We list lower values for speed my dude, you're less arguing it's wrong, and more you just don't want to list it at all.
Unfortunately, it qualifies to be listed, so we have to. It's no different than how Joseph is MFTL, but his dogshit Stand is like 200x lower than his own combat speed.

We just add the attack speeds for the Phenomena in the notes and description as they don't scale Garou himself and put him in a separate tier. Just have their own scaling and functions.

Or, we list it because it's a highly notable named attack with a bunch of unique properties, in character, and has stats of its own. it'd be like not bothering to list a dude who can manipulate lightning or light as "MHS+/SOL with [thing]".

Like idk what to tell you here, it's just something we as the wiki do and it's better to actually list that shit where it belongs.

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

We list lower values for speed my dude, you're less arguing it's wrong, and more you just don't want to list it at all.
Unfortunately, it qualifies to be listed, so we have to. It's no different than how Joseph is MFTL, but his dogshit Stand is like 200x lower than his own combat speed.

Or, we list it because it's a highly notable named attack with a bunch of unique properties, in character, and has stats of its own. it'd be like not bothering to list a dude who can manipulate lightning or light as "MHS+/SOL with [thing]".

Like idk what to tell you here, it's just something we as the wiki do and it's better to actually list that shit where it belongs.

Well then. If the staff approve it, then I won’t object. I just have a different opinion on where it should go.

Or, we list it because it's a highly notable named attack with a bunch of unique properties, in character, and has stats of its own. it'd be like not bothering to list a dude who can manipulate lightning or light as "MHS+/SOL with [thing]".

Also, that's not what I'm implying here.

 

[Recon1511]

I guess we should make his Nuclear Fission punches 7-B at best following this logic

Disagree

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

We list lower values for speed my dude, you're less arguing it's wrong, and more you just don't want to list it at all.
Unfortunately, it qualifies to be listed, so we have to. It's no different than how Joseph is MFTL, but his dogshit Stand is like 200x lower than his own combat speed.

Additionally. My argument is not that it shouldn't be listed just put in a different place like the attack's description and notes,
but I already stated my arguments.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I guess we should make his Nuclear Fission punches 7-B at best following this logic

Disagree

Garou is only High 4-C because his GRB based on a realistic GRB. You can't just cherrypick in this case.

 

[Chariot190]

I guess we should make his Nuclear Fission punches 7-B at best following this logic

Disagree

His NF was calced at like High 6-A or some shit. And very, very, bad example given his ******* TIER comes from treating the GRB as being exactly like irl. So like, in the case of the GRB, we LITERALLY do that.

 

[Recon1511]

His NF was calced at like High 6-A or some shit. And very, very, bad example given his ******* TIER comes from treating the GRB as being exactly like irl. So like, in the case of the GRB, we LITERALLY do that.

So you are saying that despite copying natural phenomena he can make it produce effects of a far higher degree? Hell Garou's NF detonations should be completely statued in comparison to the two MFTL fighters but that isn't the case.

So if we know that he can produce nuclear explosions of planetary range with MFTL detonations then whats so odd about a MFTL GRB?

 

[Chariot190]

So if we know that he can produce nuclear explosions of planetary range with MFTL detonations then whats so odd about a MFTL GRB?

The fact one has feats and one uh, doesn't, at all? And the fact we EXPLICITLY treat it as identical, hence the same rating (otherwise if we took it as we see it, it's a few magnitudes lower btw than what he's rated).

Stop cherrypickng, you want it MFTL (it wouldnt be, it doesnt have feats), he'd be inversely losing the AP.

 

[WyattR612]

Agree with OP

 

[ZillertheBucko]

alright chariot stop cooking old man
We know some things about garou’s copying
1. He can copy the AP of things like a 3-C serious punch
2. The things he copies does not have to match in every aspect, as shown when he creates a clearly ftl nuke that’s over a 1/10th the volume of io, but that doesn’t mean we’re gonna say some stupid ******* thing like “there’s no proof that the nukes he makes actually emit radiation”
3. We see that the AP of his nukes likely increase proportionally to his power, given that he goes from making town at best sized nukes on earth to the io nuke then to casually making another even larger one below:

Which, by the way proves that the speed of his explosions scales up as he grew from copying saitama and Blast

So if the argument is “well if we’re assuming that Garou’s gamma ray burst actually had the AP of a real GRB and we treat it like a real GRB then it can’t be faster than a real grb” when that’s literally now how Cosmic Garou’s mimicry has ever worked in the slightest?
This ain’t it.

 

[Chariot190]

alright chariot stop cooking old man
We know some things about garou’s copying
1. He

I mean you aren't wrong.
Also **** you I ain't THAT old yet

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I mean you aren't wrong.
Also **** you I ain't THAT old yet

I don’t know why that sent early but smh I’m disappointed in you
See edited

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I completely agree. Fiction needs to be treated with a basic amount of sense. It needs to be applied here.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I completely agree. Fiction needs to be treated with a basic amount of sense. It needs to be applied here.

We are going to continue ignoring the fact that Garou can make ftl nukes the the size of Russia fly out of his very much non Russia sized hands and continue spewing the “apply realism” here and say that his grb can’t be ftl either

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

We are going to continue ignoring the fact that Garou can make ftl nukes the the size of Russia fly out of his very much non Russia sized hands and continue spewing the “apply realism” here and say that his grb can’t be ftl either

Maybe he scared the photons to go faster? Considering he was stated to emulate the laws of nature and not surpass or change them then yeah that thing has irl speed. Just because author's are idiots with no further knowledge beyond "oh cool beams go brr" most of the time doesn't mean we should do the same. We should both do "oh cool beams go brr" and but yeah that thing exists in real life and has a given speed. Since nothing differentiating it has been stated the speed and general properties should remain the same.

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

changed my opinion I disagree.

 

[Chariot190]

1. He can copy the AP of things like a 3-C serious punch

And? You know we aren't talking about that right?

2. The things he copies does not have to match in every aspect, as shown when he creates a clearly ftl nuke that’s over a 1/10th the volume of io, but that doesn’t mean we’re gonna say some stupid ******* thing like “there’s no proof that the nukes he makes actually emit radiation”

They don't, unfortunately, in this case, that's how we treat it, hence the AP (A GRB at the size he made it, isn't 4-C btw, if you're arguing they don't need to be 1:1, then his ass is getting a downgrade, you can't have your cake and eat it too).

Also no, it's nuclear fission, which consequently has rads due to the process? We know what it is, and we see it have similar effects like black rain? Your example is awful.

That nuke isn't FTL anyway, probably rel, but so? That's an explosion, whatever, totally different than a GRB.

3. We see that the AP of his nukes likely increase proportionally to his power, given that he goes from making town at best sized nukes on earth to the io nuke then to casually

Stop talking about AP, we're talking about speed. Arguing that the GRB burst is secretly MFTL (it isnt lmao, it doesnt even have scaling to him in the first place beyond "i think it should", which isn't good enough, never will be), is like arguing light should be MFTL.

Your arguments dog Ziller, they're just bringing up a totally different attack with actual feats and going "well his stuff doesn't NEED to be the same", completely ignoring that's the only reason he has that AP otherwise it'd be way lower given his GRB is tiny as ****, and speed? It wouldn't be MFTL even if you completely disregarded it because that shit don't got no feats.

And hell if it's so magically diferent, why do we even assume the AP and rads to begin with? Either it's a GRB, or it isn't. Pick.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Maybe he scared the photons to go faster?

And I guess that explains why grb is ftl
Gg

 

[Chariot190]

We are going to continue ignoring the fact that Garou can make ftl nukes the the size of Russia fly out of his very much non Russia sized hands and continue spewing the “apply realism” here and say that his grb can’t be ftl either

Ok then why do we treat it as 4-C based on it being identical to an actual one? Downgrade it.
No rads too, it doesn't actually have feats of emitting rads, we just assume it does because it's identical to a GRB (not according to you thou).

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

actually, I'll decide my opinion after this debate.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And? You know we aren't talking about that right?

I’m saying that it doesn’t need to share the speed of the grb because we know he can copy the AP of one and surpass it
Garou can copy any technique and surpass it, he said it himself, and the nukes growing in speed and power just prove it
the Black Hole appearing also proves that he copied the properties of an actual grb.

They don't, unfortunately, in this case, that's how we treat it, hence the AP (A GRB at the size he made it, isn't 4-C btw, if you're arguing they don't need to be 1:1, then his ass is getting a downgrade, you can't have your cake and eat it too).

On the contrary, all we know is that Garou can copy it and surpass it, we would have no reason to believe that the grb is weaker or slower than an actual one, while we very explicitly do have evidence that the properties of his copied techniques increase in potency
he can’t be slower or weaker than what he copies, but yes, he can get faster. It’s just that simple.

Also no, it's nuclear fission, which consequently has rads due to the process? We know what it is, and we see it have similar effects like black rain? Your example is awful.

That nuke isn't FTL anyway, probably rel, but so? That's an explosion, whatever, totally different than a GRB.

Subrel is still rather impossible for a nuke to reach in my knowledge, so the point still stands that his techniques grow in speed.

Stop talking about AP, we're talking about speed. Arguing that the GRB burst is secretly MFTL (it isnt lmao, it doesnt even have scaling to him in the first place beyond "i think it should", which isn't good enough, never will be), is like arguing light should be MFTL.

Which is, of course, ignoring that we already know for a fact that his techniques grow in speed as he himself does, while you are arguing that gamma ray burst is restricted to being a realistic one
The fact is, we can say it’s the same one minute and then say it’s faster and stronger the next. Why? Because that’s literally what Garou’s is explicitly stated to do, as well as what we visually see him do.

Your arguments dog Ziller, they're just bringing up a totally different attack with actual feats and going "well his stuff doesn't NEED to be the same", completely ignoring that's the only reason he has that AP otherwise it'd be way lower given his GRB is tiny as ****, and speed? It wouldn't be MFTL even if you completely disregarded it because that shit don't got no feats.

And even when I said that the power of his attacks grows as he does, that doesn’t mean that the grb being small means anything. We have a visible example that his DC isn’t the same as his AP, unless you want to argue that Garou literally threw out a tier 6 nuke at saitama immediately after a tier 4 to 3 clash. He can mimic something without mimicking its size, he can copy something 1:1 and then have magnified properties immediately after, and he can steal a technique and make it stronger and faster, because these are things he has all done, it’s really that simple.

And hell if it's so magically diferent, why do we even assume the AP and rads t begin with? Either it's a GRB, or it isn't. Pick.

It’s a grb, and it can be a stronger and faster grb, it’s that simple. Him copying watchdog man’s movements doesn’t mean he’s forever cursed to jump around at 250 miles per hour, and him copying a grb doesn’t mean he’s cursed to have sol attack speed when using it.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

We got 1 staff vote. Need 1 more for this to be applied considering it's a minor crt for a single technique.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It's very simple, I agree

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Done and dusted.

@Chariot190 this can be applied once 48 hours have passed.