FU vs Avengers Alliance haxed units showdown (stage4 Frogman vs Loki) [STOMP]

[Froggytron]

Story: Loki, as he always does with whoever he meets, tries to make a scheme on Frogman, yet he sees through it with his Sin Vision.

Rules

• Stage 4 (KEY 5) Laser Frogman is used with 2x Red Sabers
• Speed is equalized
• The fight takes place on a moon
• Starting distance is 40 meters
• Anything above High 6-A is restricted
• SBA for anything else

Voting
Haxed Frogman:
(~800 petatons)

Haxed Loki:
(scales above 375.522 Petatons)

Inconclusive:

 

[Froggytron]

Stage4 Frogman will likely start with advanced fear manipulation (sent through lightspeed waves by screaming dragon heads at his saber blades) to give chills to Loki, then sends 4 clones running at him (slightly weaker in stats) with full damage transferal activated, equipped with blades at arm ends.

As Loki is fearsome (Sin Vision shows his danger level), Frogman will also set 8 backup clones behind his back, ordering them to get some distance from the fight.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Loki resists fear manipulation.

Seeing as he's facing clones himself, he'd probably use his own duplication to keep them busy while he sits back and analyses the fight on how to the opponent's true self, using his clone duplicates to see what powers they have, and exploiting any weaknesses.

While Loki does have a few of his abilities resisted, he has some attacks that attack the soul directly, able to prevent harmful effect statuses being applied to himself. His most tricky ability is that he's able to curse people so that things that do damage and heal are flipped, so in order to do damage to Loki, you'd have to heal him to death.

 

[Froggytron]

His most tricky ability is that he's able to curse people so that things that do damage and heal are flipped, so in order to do damage to Loki, you'd have to heal him to death.

From the stage2, Frogman unlocks curse resistance, which grows stronger with development, to near immunity at stage4. Frogman also has Curse Manipulation tablets, which break any curse inflicted directly.

Since the clones still have AP advantage and 2 tiers higher regen (High-Mid), they should be winning against Loki duplicates rather quickly. Main Frogman won't waste time and sends two gigantic dragon heads at main Loki to bite him and tear him apart (each dragon tooth does a 'Decay burning' effect listed in stage3 notable attacks).

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Missed the curse resistance, however Loki has his own decently powerful arsenal of abilities:

• Stat amping techniques to close the AP/Durability gap. Also has forcefields as well
• Increasing his speed to dodge attacks, as well as teleportation. Keeps with Frogs similar abilities
• Multiple attacks that attack the soul directly
• Power null that prevents harmful effects to himself and positive effects to Frogman.
• His daggers bypass illusions, enhanced senses, intangibility and similar avoidance effects
• Can completely drain his opponents stamina.

 

[Froggytron]

• Stat amping techniques to close the AP/Durability gap. Also has forcefields as well
• Increasing his speed to dodge attacks, as well as teleportation. Keeps with Frogs similar abilities

Frogman has own stat amps on most of things (with red laser effects, stronger if he activates his horn between eyes), and can consume some of his clones (from the 200 limit) to raise his stats even higher, to stay in the advantage

+'Decay burning' effect will just burn forcefields away once Red Saber blade or it'd dragon heads touches it

• Multiple attacks that attack the soul directly

Stage3+ has resistance to Death Manipulation and Soul Manipulation by refusal, the attack will do just regular dmg

• Power null that prevents harmful effects to himself and positive effects to Frogman.

This could complicate Frogman's AP boosts and limit 'Decay burning' on Loki's body, fair point

• His daggers bypass illusions, enhanced senses, intangibility and similar avoidance effects
• Can completely drain his opponents stamina.

Frogman mostly doesn't use avoidance effects, since he can dodge with TP, regen almost instantly by low-High regen, or rewind 2 seconds of time on himself to recover great damage dealt

Frogman has a quantum of dragon-laser energy flowing in his veins (stamina drain will take longer) and he can crush moon's surface repeatedly to eat the matter destroyed through the red laser attacks, mostly recovering his stamina and raising his EXP level (making his slow recreative evolution progress faster)

 

[Froggytron]

In the end, Frogman can still do massive damage on Loki by homing controllable dragon heads (even if they can't inflict full 'Decay burning', their dmg per second is insane), and 'W.I.S.H Nuke cast' reality vibration waves sent into every side (by Frogman clapping) will do great damage too (they can concentrate all their High 6-A damage output firstly at Loki's organs and then at his other weak parts right away, so Low-Mid regen won't save him)

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

• Raising his stats by consuming clones is a temporary boost though, Loki's is permanent. Power null would also prevent him from stat amping anyway.
• The Decay Burning is from his Red Saber which listed under optional equipment, so he doesn't have this
• What is "Refusal"? There's no clarification on how this works or what it is...
• The dagger attacks have a 100% chance to hit with probability manipulation, unless there's counter probability manipulation, they will hit.
• Stamina drain is instantaneous, but yes, regathering stamina is possible of course
• I'm not sure how many of these there are, but it sounds a bit difficult to pick out the real Loki when there are duplicates of him around. Loki has resistance to status effect inducement, so he won't be slowed/stunned by the attacks however
• This works, although it looks like it again requires him to find the real Loki

 

[Froggytron]

Stage4 is at most High 6-B by default. Accepting fight with his 6-A/High 6-A versions allows Red Sabers, since it's the thing boosting Frogman into these tiers (holding 2x Red Sabers makes him reach High 6-A). The boost is pre-fight however, Loki can block only further stat amps during the fight.

'Decay Burning' is an unquenchable magic fire burning away being into nothingness (from the hit with R.Saber), canceling regeneration and burning up even things like forcefields. It could have some impact even with effects nullified on Loki, at least the wounds not recovering.

Refusal forces the physical body to taunt the soul, taking the dmg instead.

Unless daggers beats low-High regen, Frogman is safe + he has many more options (like backup clones I mentioned at the start)

Finding real Loki is like finding a lightbulb in the dark, since Frogman has Sin Vision. He senses crimes-made by Loki, in Loki, meanwhile the duplicates haven't done any crimes yet, since they were created just now.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

My bad then It just says it's optional equipment, so I just assumed that they weren't being used here. I'm confused by the stat ratings too it just looks like only the sabers, the Dragon heads and sort of mech suit?

Power null prevents harmful effects,

What is it exactly though?

They don't.

That's not how it works, they are all Loki

His only other abilities are is BFR with multiversal range, impersonating Laser Frogs with his power mimicry and transformation, using Frogs' own abilities against him, or freezing them to death/incapacitating them.

 

[Froggytron]

Holding the Red Sabers boosts their other attack to that level though, "mech suit" doesn't help much here
-
Let's compare it to a lightning rod, able to transfer soul damage back into body damage, making their soul point useless
-
When all are Loki, spamming 'W.I.S.H Nuke cast' could be effective here, since it sends AoE damage into all sides, and can use its energy only at damaging Lokis, not wasting it on terrain and else. 'BFR bomb' could also be effective here, Frogman could hide its presence, let it detonate after 10 seconds, and send all Lokies in the Large Country area into a completely different universe (main Frogman can TP in time or can revert himself with time manipulation back into the original universe the fight took place in)

How does Loki's BFR work? Laser Frogman can defeat Laser Frogman due to 'Decay Burning' canceling regen. Frogman can heat himself with red laser heat, and if he still freezes (due to using stamina drain before it), main Frogman's soul transfers into any of his backup clones, which gains main Frogman consciousness and abilities.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

It’s getting into the nitty gritty

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I see, thanks for clearing that up.

I see. I'm curious to know how it works with their soul being on fire. I assume they'd just take damage from the fire overtime, but they wouldn't be able to put the fire out since it's the soul that's on fire? Or would that not work at all?

I see. Via portal creation

 

[Froggytron]

Well, it should work as you described, Frogman shouldn't have methods to stop soul-burning, so his body will burn 24/7, giving Loki more power to outweigh his insane regen (although Frogman's body has weaker fire resistance). As for Loki's BFR, portals can be more easily avoided than direct teleportation, but even if Frogman makes a mistake and gets BFR'd, he can revert this happening with his 2-second time rewind, able to revert events which only Frogman wants, like him being BFR'd.

Given the countless Frogman's defense measures and ability to spam AoE attacks (stage4 is a heavy nuker), I think Frogman will come as a winner eventually, heavily mentally exhausted. But damn, this fight was intense, Loki's hacks are powerful!

 

[Froggytron]

Bump

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bump

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I'm not seeing any win cons for Loki here

 

[Froggytron]

Since I mentioned 2x AoE win coins to deal with Loki-army, I will vote Frogman FRA

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

If Loki has no win cons, this is a stomp.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Frog fra

 

[Froggytron]

If Loki has no win cons, this is a stomp.

With all of his insane haxs, Loki definitely has a lot, likely much more than the Frogman. If Loki targets the backup clones first and spends time destroying them (the limit of their creation is 200, and they have lower regen), then the main Frogman is kinda screwed, having his soul setting him afire 24/7 combined with all duplicates attacking him with undodgeable attacks, his regen would be beaten.

Main Frogman's best option is to carefully spam his AoE attack to damage all Loki's at once and with the help of clones and BFR bombs, finish them all at once, since Frogman's backups are limited, while Loki's aren't.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

You already said that he resists soul manipulation, and Loki can't bypass that level of regeneration.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

You already said that he resists soul manipulation, and Loki can't bypass that level of regeneration.

He just takes the soul attacks as physical ones I think, they still damage him

 

[Froggytron]

You already said that he resists soul manipulation, and Loki can't bypass that level of regeneration.

But I never said a freezing attack won't work. If limited backup clones are not accessible and Loki drains Frogman's stamina before the freeze attack, Frogman loses. That's why Frogman is pressured to finish Loki before that happens, which is hard with the unlimited duplication.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Freezing someone is not a win-con, especially when he has not chance of getting close to him to do it, and can undo the attack anyway by going seconds into the past.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Freezing someone is not a win-con, especially when he has not chance of getting close to him to do it, and can undo the attack anyway by going seconds into the past.

He can still do enough damage following a stamina drain. Also did you ever say how Loki’s BFR works? Is that a wincon or no

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Can't get passed that level of regen. Portals, not really, he can just go back two seconds and they have dimensional travel as well

 

[Froggytron]

Freezing someone is not a win-con, especially when he has not chance of getting close to him to do it, and can undo the attack anyway by going seconds into the past.

Can't Loki just drain the stamina, then teleport to Frogman and freeze him? If fully feezed (at soul level), Frogman can't revert the 2 seconds with no consciousness using it (frozen). The 2-second rewind also has cooldown, if Loki sees through and repeats this combination, the 2-second rewind will become useless.

• now I think about it, 2-second rewind is one of the Frogman's most stamina-consuming spells, it can be hardly used directly after the stamina drain
• I also never described how Frogman regen works, it primarily uses his energy (in the body parts expected to merge and regen) to do so... Now the stamina drain seems almost unbalanced

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Loki will not be able to get close enough to do anything.

 

[ExSENNA]

stomp apparently

 

[Froggytron]

Loki will not be able to get close enough to do anything.

Why? How does his teleportation work?

 

[Froggytron]

+ As I said, It's Loki who has more deadly haxes, he can massively lower Frogman's regen by spamming stamina draining, then his attacks with 100% hit rate and soul burning could beat the lowered regen, furthermore, if there are tons of Lokis.

While Frogman's only option is to spam AoE attacks, its almost the Frogman having to try harder... how can this be a stomp guys

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

He can teleport freely enough, but portal creation as you said wouldn't really work.

All Loki's haxes don't work as you've expressed yourself, and Loki can't do anything against such higher levels of regen, nor does he have the range to do so without being killed. Loki can create as many clones as he wants, he still won't be able to do anything to actually win in any way as he has no method of putting Frogman down.

 

[Froggytron]

Loki can't do anything against such higher levels of regen

I will repeat it for 3rd time, Frogman regen falls categories down if his stamina gets depleted constantly. The regen needs the energy god damnit.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

You said yourself that he can easily replenish it. The starting range and location also puts Loki at a disadvantage, and even if he started at close quarters and the battle took place at an ideal layout (which would be his best chance), his usual strategy won't work and he'd no chance to go through his options before he quickly gets overwhelmed and is easily destroyed.

You're putting a literal army of soldiers with insane regen and aoe abilities against a trickster whose main focus is stealth and trickery, neither of which is useful here.

 

[Froggytron]

You mentioned no limits to Loki's duplication, combined with his AP upscaling, canceling stat boosting etc, it's almost impossible for Frogman to have some wincoins either. AoE attacks won't one-shot and if Loki won't run out of stamina (which he has godly) due to stamina drain, he can just create new Lokis non-stop, which won't be one-shotted and will generate new ones. Now I that realized the stamina drain will even affect the regeneration, it's closer to Incon than Stomp....

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

It's not his usual strategy, AP increases takes time, and he's a fair way behind to start off with, requires him to get in closer range which he'll be dead by then, Loki literally has no cover to protect himself from attacks, stamina doesn't matter if he's dead, kinda hard to duplicate yourself if you're being shot at by 200 supersoldiers spamming attacks at you, again, Loki won't be able to get in range, and he doesn't lead with this attack anyway.

 

[Froggytron]

Frogmen don't send 200 clones at first glance, they start with a few to test the enemy, and they spam more once they are in big danger. +The clones are AP weaker, having lower stats and regen. Don't get me wrong Colonel, but you seem to bring any argument you possibly can to mark this as a stomp, despite starting the fight with Loki seeming 10x more haxed than stage4 Frogman is...

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I don't believe this is a fair match imho, and I'm just repeating myself at this point. I don't agree with that, it says in their profile "Standard Tactics: Defeating the enemy in the most efficient way possible, using energy & weaponry at hand to its utmost potential, eliminating injustice in harsh ways,"

Even his clones are unkillable because their regen is far above Loki can handle.

 

[ExSENNA]

Yeah this seem very onesided to be honest

Also no offense but formating of Laser Frogs' page is kind of weird imo