An FU General fights a Crestseal reincarnated spirit (Stage 3 Frogman vs Basvara vyna Sratek) [Stomp]

[ExSENNA]

Worth mentioning Frogman even wouldn't go with such large attacks till late game, Matveil growing is what makes him use final attacks right away. If she teleported nearby, Frogman would try to snipe her first by beams sent into places he would analyze she is more likely to teleport at.

But it doesn't change the fact she can teleport into different Tumults to get Matveil OP before she reveals him, it seems like a valid wincoin.

This isn't relevant at all. We know how this battle goes, Age-stuff prompts Basvara to construct Matveil which prompts FU to charge that attack

I already said this is not relevant. Look, even if she teleported to a different Tumult right at the beginning of the battle and got Matveil stronger, that does nothing, because it doesn't help her survive FU's charge attack. She has to return at some point, and FU will be pressed to use that attack which Basvara has no way of avoiding. It does not matter what she does as she cannot avoid that attack

 

[Froggytron]

She has to return at some point, and FU will be pressed to use that attack which Basvara has no way of avoiding. It does not matter what she does as she cannot avoid that attack

I would disagree with this, given that she has an arsenal able to tank it with stat-grown Matveil. She has many feats of solving and analyzing methods of opponents, if she in time deduces what is coming when returns with stronger Matveil, she can construct stronger Matveil around her body tightly (as you mentioned). The whole point of casting so many attacks in one place is to one-shot him, an opponent with decent 6-C durability above Frogman Gang. With Matveil grown further and an ability to reconstruct him (when he reaches metaphorically 1 % HP), one-shooting him in the small moment he gets thrown into the spam of attacks may no longer be an option, and then Basvara can teleport with him out (as an armor) and reconstruct him again to full health, able to survive even next 2-second-rewinds sending her into swarms of attacks. This gives her great time to beat Frogman before he comes up with something even more creative to get around this, as well opportunity to grow Matveil's adaptation stronger and stronger, thus why I see it as a valid Wincoin.

 

[ExSENNA]

I would disagree with this, given that she has an arsenal able to tank it with stat-grown Matveil. She has many feats of solving and analyzing methods of opponents, if she in time deduces what is coming when returns with stronger Matveil, she can construct stronger Matveil around her body tightly (as you mentioned). The whole point of casting so many attacks in one place is to one-shot him, an opponent with decent 6-C durability above Frogman Gang. With Matveil grown further and an ability to reconstruct him (when he reaches metaphorically 1 % HP), one-shooting him in the small moment he gets thrown into the spam of attacks may no longer be an option, and then Basvara can teleport with him out (as an armor) and reconstruct him again to full health, able to survive even next 2-second-rewinds sending her into swarms of attacks. This gives her great time to beat Frogman before he comes up with something even more creative to get around this, as well opportunity to grow Matveil's adaptation stronger and stronger, thus why I see it as a valid Wincoin.

I disagree with your disagreement

You're basically saying she gotta immediately leave to a different Tumult, get Matveil stronger to have it tank an attack she doesn't even know coming. No, she doesn't have any analysis stuff to know it before it is too late. The possibility of her getting all of those things right is astronomically small even if she had prior knowlegde and borderline impossible without it, as she needs to do something so specific to avoid this attack she doesn't even know while FU have precog to always reorganize and replan their moves before Matveil would adjust to that.

Also she cannot freely deconstruct and reconstruct Lights regardless of damage. It takes significanfly more Vita to reconstruct them if they took a lot of damage, and damage beyond what High-Mid can cover makes them register as "destroyed", so she cannot reconstruct Matveil as if nothing happened after he is down to "1% HP"

This is a stomp

 

[Froggytron]

I disagree with your disagreement

You're basically saying she gotta immediately leave to a different Tumult, get Matveil stronger to have it tank an attack she doesn't even know coming. No, she doesn't have any analysis stuff to know it before it is too late. The possibility of her getting all of those things right is astronomically small even if she had prior knowlegde and borderline impossible without it, as she needs to do something so specific to avoid this attack she doesn't even know while FU have precog to always reorganize and replan their moves before Matveil would adjust to that.

Also she cannot freely deconstruct and reconstruct Lights regardless of damage. It takes significanfly more Vita to reconstruct them if they took a lot of damage, and damage beyond what High-Mid can cover makes them register as "destroyed", so she cannot reconstruct Matveil as if nothing happened after he is down to "1% HP"

This is a stomp

But then it appears the window between a stomp and inconclusive is extremely tight, given that how else can Frogman get past the seemingly instantinous Interdimensional teleport range with Area Ant combined with the cautious mind? Directly blocking teleportation is something very few characters can do, and all she has to do is to visit the place in a few days, resulting in an Incon against most FC/OC characters (when overlooking Matveil's potential to grow elsewhere). And when a character has a single last resort used just in specific circumstances to get past this, it becomes a stomp in your eyes...

 

[ExSENNA]

But then it appears the window between a stomp and inconclusive is extremely tight, given that how else can Frogman get past the seemingly instantinous Interdimensional teleport range with Area Ant combined with the cautious mind? Directly blocking teleportation is something very few characters can do, and all she has to do is to visit the place in a few days, resulting in an Incon against most FC/OC characters (when overlooking Matveil's potential to grow elsewhere). And when a character has a single last resort used just in specific circumstances to get past this, it becomes a stomp in your eyes...

What are you saying again? She doesn't even abuse Area Ant teleportation in combat, only using it to teleport short distances to evade attacks. This is likely because the more the distance is, the less spammable it becomes. So jumping to another Tumult is something she can only do once or twice here.

How does her going to a different Tumult forces an incon? She cannot fight while she's elsewhere, she has to return at some point, and still gets hit by that charge attack
Bro you're talking about specific circumstances but you're ignoring that she could never avoid this attack at all. It is she who needs to do a series of specific unconventional things such as immediately going into a Tumult and using Matveil like a shield to protect herself from this huge AOE insta-kill attack aided by time-rewind that will position her to get one-shotted, as if she knows all of this

Like I wouldn't even say this is incon because I don't see a way for her to avoid that attack at all

 

[Froggytron]

Agree it sounds way less op with these points. Kinda shameful she gets forced to summon her nuke right away to start adapting to aging, which triggers Frogman to stomp her soonest as possible, not giving Matveil chance for an equal fight

It is she who needs to do a series of specific unconventional things such as immediately going into a Tumult and using Matveil like a shield to protect herself from this huge AOE insta-kill attack aided by time-rewind that will position her to get one-shotted

Sounds like Frogmen

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Agree it sounds way less op with these points. Kinda shameful she gets forced to summon her nuke right away to start adapting to aging, which triggers Frogman to stomp her soonest as possible, not giving Matveil chance for an equal fight

Sounds like Frogmen

Is there no way to restrict the rewind ability? What would happen if frogman didn’t have it?

 

[Froggytron]

Is there no way to restrict the rewind ability? What would happen if frogman didn’t have it?

Frogman would eventuelly try to use as much AoE possible to tire down her teleportation, if that is possible

 

[Froggytron]

Is there no way to restrict the rewind ability? What would happen if frogman didn’t have it?

Frogman would eventually try to use as much planetary range AoE as possible to tire down her teleportation, if that is possible

 

[ExSENNA]

Basvara's third key resists it but then she becomes too strong (6-C/6-B) for FU to kill I think

 

[Froggytron]

Basvara's third key resists it but then she becomes too strong (6-C/6-B) for FU to kill I think

Well, then there is the Stage 4 Frogman scaling to these lengths as well

 

[ExSENNA]

Well, then there is the Stage 4 Frogman scaling to these lengths as well

Ah yes, forgot this is stage 3 and there is stage 4

 

[ExSENNA]

So what do we do? Stage 4 Frogman vs third key Basvara?

 

[Froggytron]

So what do we do? Stage 4 Frogman vs third key Basvara?

Im highly busy with college rn, so we will postpone it. And Gunnix needs an update, given that Stage 4 seems to be able to summon them after all like his own epic royal guards, in very limited numbers, however. It's mostly Spagmatrons that Frogmen can spam, given there was even a Spagamtron factory drawn 12 years ago in FU, artificially manufacturing them straight to level 3 When I looked through the 12-year-old arts, Spagmatrons seem to be frequent almost like upgraded tanks, being drawn in most of the bases

 

[ExSENNA]

Im highly busy with college rn, so we will postpone it. And Gunnix needs an update, given that Stage 4 seems to be able to summon them after all like his own epic royal guards, in very limited numbers, however. It's mostly Spagmatrons that Frogmen can spam, given there was even a Spagamtron factory drawn 12 years ago in FU, artificially manufacturing them straight to level 3 When I looked through the 12-year-old arts, Spagmatrons seem to be frequent almost like upgraded tanks, being drawn in most of the bases

I am busy as well, we can do stuff next month or even later

 

[Froggytron]

I am busy as well, we can do stuff next month or even later

Sounds good