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People can disagree.
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Frieza and Android 17 upgrade (Staff Only)
- Thread starter Aeyu
- Start date
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- Tags
- android 17 dragon ball frieza
- Status
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I agree, it's also consistent with Limit Breaks being a Low 2-C power up from SSB levels of power
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i disagree entirely on this. Not only is it a gigantic outlier, but also based on Cherry picking.
Also, nice job making this staff only to silence the majority who was disagreeing with you previously. This is a very bad tactic.
Everyime 17 and Frieza fought people who are either Low 2-C or even high level 3-A they got rekt. The jiren they fought was wounded and exhausted. It doesn't scale.
No upgrade is happening. People need to stop giving DBS special treatment.
Also, nice job making this staff only to silence the majority who was disagreeing with you previously. This is a very bad tactic.
Everyime 17 and Frieza fought people who are either Low 2-C or even high level 3-A they got rekt. The jiren they fought was wounded and exhausted. It doesn't scale.
No upgrade is happening. People need to stop giving DBS special treatment.
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@Aeyu
I have given you reasons for my disagreement, so that's why it's drawn out.
You should also not have made this staff-only.
I have given you reasons for my disagreement, so that's why it's drawn out.
You should also not have made this staff-only.
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- Thread starter
- #46
@Matt
Was not my move, Ant suggested I should do so.
I adamantly disagree that "the majority" didn't like it. There was plenty of support for it and remains so in this thread, minus you and Kep.
The Jiren they fought may have been wounded, but he did regain at least a sizable portion of his former strength.
Was not my move, Ant suggested I should do so.
I adamantly disagree that "the majority" didn't like it. There was plenty of support for it and remains so in this thread, minus you and Kep.
The Jiren they fought may have been wounded, but he did regain at least a sizable portion of his former strength.
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Thus making the entire fight utterly unquantifiable, which is why you tried to hide the outlier by making it High 3-A. When the rating was shown to be baseless, instead of admtting that it is an outlier you double down.
Again, why give DBS special treatment and act like outliers. Don't exist for it?
Again, why give DBS special treatment and act like outliers. Don't exist for it?
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The majority in this thread are staff members. Quite a bit of people disagreed with you in the previous thread. People whose opinions are not any lower than a staff member's.
Also, High 3-A is unfounded and you agreed with Low 2-C being an outlier. Why are you backtracking? And why are you acting like there are "10 outliers" when there are only 2?
Also, High 3-A is unfounded and you agreed with Low 2-C being an outlier. Why are you backtracking? And why are you acting like there are "10 outliers" when there are only 2?
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The previous upgrade was shot down and literally everyone agreed with it being an outlier. Nothing changed here other than 17 surviving via obvious PIS.
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- Thread starter
- #51
@Kep
You LOVE to ignore things that I've said, don't you? Just like you ignored that the thread wasn't even MY idea. Just like you talked down to me in a previous comment before editing it to make it sound more appropriate. There were also a number of people who agreed with said viewpoint, as well. But that in and of itself is not the issue. You're literally using the EXACT SAME argument as the previous 17/Anilaza/Kefla downgrade, which was motivated largely out of spite.
You LOVE to ignore things that I've said, don't you? Just like you ignored that the thread wasn't even MY idea. Just like you talked down to me in a previous comment before editing it to make it sound more appropriate. There were also a number of people who agreed with said viewpoint, as well. But that in and of itself is not the issue. You're literally using the EXACT SAME argument as the previous 17/Anilaza/Kefla downgrade, which was motivated largely out of spite.
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It changes nothing, Aeyu. The former thread was closed and you made a new one, heavily suggesting the upgrade on the OP and highlighting it, so people that hadn't bothered to read 300+ replies would instantly agree. And since this is Staff Only, the previous people against would be silenced.
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Because it is. They have exactly one feat that can be interpreted as Low 2-C, and the rest of the Tournament they are portrayed as Super Saiyan Blue level at best. And by that I mean Pre Limit-Breaking Super Saiyan Blue.Aeyu said:
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"the previous 17/Anilaza/Kefla downgrade"
They were downgraded because primarily you seem unable to accept that if a Tier 2 character is suppressed / weakened, and fights 3D characters, they won't instantly become High 3-A.
Stop focusing so much on the dimensional difference and focus on the fact: A character isn't using their full power for one reason or another. Thus, no upgrade can be had.
You wouldn't suggest if a 5-B character fought a suppressed 3-B that they became "At least 4-A" or "At most 3-B", wouldn't you? Hopefully not, as the suppression makes the 3-B feats that the character has null for that specific fight.
They were downgraded because primarily you seem unable to accept that if a Tier 2 character is suppressed / weakened, and fights 3D characters, they won't instantly become High 3-A.
Stop focusing so much on the dimensional difference and focus on the fact: A character isn't using their full power for one reason or another. Thus, no upgrade can be had.
You wouldn't suggest if a 5-B character fought a suppressed 3-B that they became "At least 4-A" or "At most 3-B", wouldn't you? Hopefully not, as the suppression makes the 3-B feats that the character has null for that specific fight.
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Because the middle ground doesn't exist. That's the Golden Mean Fallacy. The scaling is either right or it is wrong. Sticking it at the middle has no logical basis and is just there to appease people and end the discussion.Aeyu said:
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@Aeyu
Stop trying to start a shitstorm and accuse me. Thanks.
Anilaza was downgraded because the reasoning was debunked. Not out of spite. I'd appreciate if you were more reasonable and stopped throwing endless accusations at Matt and I. Thank you.
Stop trying to start a shitstorm and accuse me. Thanks.
Anilaza was downgraded because the reasoning was debunked. Not out of spite. I'd appreciate if you were more reasonable and stopped throwing endless accusations at Matt and I. Thank you.
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It is a feat
An outlier it shall not be if it occured more than once.
Guys, this makes no sense.
>First UI Goku fights an extremely restricted Jiren.
>Upgraded to Low 2-C
>Frieza and 17 keep up with an powered up Jiren as shown by his flame aura like Rice mentioned + Goku saying they all broke their limits.
>Outlier.
Come on now...
Also, please, stop accusing Aeyu of trying to "hide" outliers. You guys keep saying that and that's not even what she's trying to do or even doing. She isn't accusing you of downplaying now is she?
An outlier it shall not be if it occured more than once.
Guys, this makes no sense.
>First UI Goku fights an extremely restricted Jiren.
>Upgraded to Low 2-C
>Frieza and 17 keep up with an powered up Jiren as shown by his flame aura like Rice mentioned + Goku saying they all broke their limits.
>Outlier.
Come on now...
Also, please, stop accusing Aeyu of trying to "hide" outliers. You guys keep saying that and that's not even what she's trying to do or even doing. She isn't accusing you of downplaying now is she?
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- Thread starter
- #61
Then I heavily support a straight Low 2-C by means of it being stated and shown that they had broken their limits and hold to that, period.
The fact is that Jiren powered up to a level strong enough to impress the bleachers again, and had been stated to "Put his previous issues away". Apples and oranges, and you're not going to change my mind, sorry.
The fact is that Jiren powered up to a level strong enough to impress the bleachers again, and had been stated to "Put his previous issues away". Apples and oranges, and you're not going to change my mind, sorry.
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"An outlier it shall not be if it occured more than once."
Let's upgrade Superman then because he has more Tier 2 feats than all of DBS combined has 3-A to 2-C feats.
"First UI Goku fights an extremely restricted Jiren. Upgraded to Low 2-C"
Because it is in that fight that they have the Low 2-C feat in the first place.
"Frieza and 17 keep up with an powered up Jiren as shown by his flame aura like Rice mentioned + Goku saying they all broke their limits"
This powered up Jiren was extremely tired and wounded, and thus had to push himself and use all of his remaining power, which as stated was nothing like what he previously had, as evidenced by Frieza and 17 taking him o.
Finally, Breaking Limits means nothing. Cabba reaching Super Saiyan 2 is described as Limit-Breaking. Low 2-C for him now?
Let's upgrade Superman then because he has more Tier 2 feats than all of DBS combined has 3-A to 2-C feats.
"First UI Goku fights an extremely restricted Jiren. Upgraded to Low 2-C"
Because it is in that fight that they have the Low 2-C feat in the first place.
"Frieza and 17 keep up with an powered up Jiren as shown by his flame aura like Rice mentioned + Goku saying they all broke their limits"
This powered up Jiren was extremely tired and wounded, and thus had to push himself and use all of his remaining power, which as stated was nothing like what he previously had, as evidenced by Frieza and 17 taking him o.
Finally, Breaking Limits means nothing. Cabba reaching Super Saiyan 2 is described as Limit-Breaking. Low 2-C for him now?
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Nobody is denying that. People are saying that they becoming Low 2-C is false. The Jiren they fought isn't Low 2-C.PaChi2 said:
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>Upgraded to Low 2-C
UIO Goku vs. Jiren is literally the reason why they are both Low 2-C.
UIO Goku vs. Jiren is literally the reason why they are both Low 2-C.
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While i am no longer staff and its been over a year since i was involved in such heated discussions over controversial topics, i like to add that we, as a community and especially as staff always came to the best and most reasonable solutions when we tried to leave emotional bias behind. It prevented from namecalling and allowed for an objective reasoning, finally yielding the results we all agree on, without anyone feeling left out or ignored out of spite.
As such i can only repeat Kaltias words - taking a deep breath and calming down will lead us to the most objective assessment of tiers and feats here. Together, not against each other.
As such i can only repeat Kaltias words - taking a deep breath and calming down will lead us to the most objective assessment of tiers and feats here. Together, not against each other.
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Except comics are still an example no matter how bad the scaling is.
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You are now entirely ignoring why they are Low 2-C in the first place.Sera Loveheart said:
And no, but you implied that that allows an upgrade to Low 2-C to not be an outlier.
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As a fan of comics... No, absolutely not. Scaling in DBS is just as bad as Mainstream Comics.Sera Loveheart said:
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@Pachi
Except 17 and Freeza got literally no power-ups other than a vague "limits are broken" hero-talk.
Except 17 and Freeza got literally no power-ups other than a vague "limits are broken" hero-talk.
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I mean, it's quite ridiculous from a writing standpoint, but I'm not going to dismiss it as an outlier when Vegeta got upgraded prior to fighting Toppo for the same damn reaso.
Apparently, in DBS, only Saiyans get upgraded. When it's anyone else? No dice
Apparently, in DBS, only Saiyans get upgraded. When it's anyone else? No dice
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And can you explain what allowed for this humongous power increase?
They didn't reveal themselves to be suppressed throughout the past fight, and there's plenty of evidence that they weren't.
They weren't at full power themselves either. Frieza gave a chunk of his energy to Goku to heal him and 17 nearly died.
They didn't get new forms. They aren't Saiyans so no Zenkai.
Jiren wasn't at full power either.
It doesn't scale.
They didn't reveal themselves to be suppressed throughout the past fight, and there's plenty of evidence that they weren't.
They weren't at full power themselves either. Frieza gave a chunk of his energy to Goku to heal him and 17 nearly died.
They didn't get new forms. They aren't Saiyans so no Zenkai.
Jiren wasn't at full power either.
It doesn't scale.
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