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Has Luis fought anyone as strong as Franklin physically? Or will one or both of them just get distance from each other to use their weapons?When it comes to experience they should be Equal. Skill? Frank takes out Merryweather, Military, Government Agents easily so despite being inexperienced as Mike claims. So I'd say he's better as a gunman. Luis Might be better in H2H Tho. The AP advantage is real, not sure if it's one shot worthy tho.
I'm leaning towards Franklin due to skill, regen & AP advantage, what is the strongest thing Luis has fought canonically & does he have any notable info that would suggest he can fight & beat anyone stronger & more durable than him?No. But yeah, Their weapons should be on par. And distance is allowed
"Can survive high-speed crashes and being shot out of the windshield into walls at high speeds" is the very first feat listed on Niko's durability section and that is very easily in the hundreds of kilojoules at least. Check the references for common feats page.
He can't. Or rather, he's never done this. The most anyone in GTA has done is kicking open a locked door and that was Trevor, who no one scales to. Niko's done the same thing like, thrice. Not that it matters, that is not a 9-B feat.& Franklin can shatter a door.
Franklin can regenerate from bullet wounds as long as he physically stands still and does not receive further damage. I really hope that I don't have to tell you how ridiculously useless that is here., does Luis have an advantage here? Advantage like experience, training, stats, tactics? Unlike him Franklin can regenerate from bullet wounds.
Most of the time when Franklin kills trained opponents he has help. I recall maybe five instances where he did it on his own and at least one was solely because he outranged them. Hell, going off of the mission's context he was most likely going to be overrun even with Lamar's help in the last mission when they faced some Merryweather folks, only managing to push them back when Michael and Trevor joined them.When it comes to experience they should be equal. Skill? Frank takes out Merryweather, Military, Government Agents easily so despite being inexperienced as Mike claims. So I'd say he's better as a gunman.
Yeah, Luis is definitely much better in H2H skill-wise. As you yourself have mentioned, he has cage fighting experience while Franklin lacks anything of the sorts.Luis Might be better in H2H Tho. The AP advantage is real, not sure if it's one shot worthy tho.
As covered before, he is not more skilled, regen is meaningless because it's not like Luis is just going to shoot him once and be done with it and the AP advantage is easily negated by the piercing damage of Luis' bullets.I'm leaning towards Franklin due to skill, regen & AP advantage,
Please actually educate yourself on the feats of the character you are arguing against before making such claims.but he mostly just Kills gangsters and such.
But Frank has Killed better. Far better. He's Killed FIB agents, Merryweather Mercs who have combat experience in several wars across the world, and US Soldiers.
Feats Prove otherwise, kid.You can't be serious. Claiming Franklin to be more skilled than Luis is one of the most outrageous claims when it comes to GTA scaling.
They all scale to each other LMFAO, yeah Trevor is the strongest ofc, but they all perform similar feats in gameHe can't. Or rather, he's never done this. The most anyone in GTA has done is kicking open a locked door and that was Trevor, who no one scales to. Niko's done the same thing like, thrice. Not that it matters, that is not a 9-B feat
Yeah Frank Sniping Noose Choppers in "Threes company" as well. "Help" don't take that away. You have to be a skilled gunman to run with Michael and Trevor. Why do you think it matters so much who you pick for these heists? "Help" didn't save the guy with Lowest stats during the paleto job did it? No. In fact, Franklin took on the Army by himself in a bulldozer for a while, while everyone else was on the other side of town. In fact he shot down Merryweather Choppers by himself during the Merryweather heist while Mike was flying. What "Help"?Luis, on the other hand? He did most of the shit he did by himself. On his own, he solo'd armies of NOOSE units several times. NOOSE is based on the United States Department of Homeland Security. On many of these occasions they also had attack helicopters on their side, with Luis only sporting his normal weaponry. He also had to do so once while on top of a train, having had to fight his way along the train and disconnect the front carriage so that a buisness associate of his could steal it. He didn't have any real
And Franklin didn't clear a whole construction site full of Mobsters? And Franklin doesn't kill scores of Ballas with Stretch and Lamar (inb4 "hELp" they aren't nearly as competent a gunman as Frank is) and shot down a Police chopper?He has also cleared out a plethora of Lost MC members. Two unnamed Lost MC members are able to fend off multiple armored police officers for a prolonged amount of time in The Lost and Damned's final mission.
Yes I remember this, now. I'll admit this is a good look for Luis.He also took down the Bulgarin Bratva, including Timur, Bulgarin's right hand man, and Bulgarin himself. This is extremely impressive because of many factors, the most notable one being that Bulgarin's connections were so great within Europe that Niko preferred joining the merchant navy in order to escape Bulgarin's influence as opposed to just killing him. Admittedly, Bulgarin's influence was not yet as strong in America, it still stands to reason that a mafia boss with such strong connections has henchman that are extraordinarily skilled themselves
True.With the current state of the profiles Franklin would indeed one-shot in a physical confrontation. But that is absolutely meaningless because this is just going to be a gunfight.
I seem to be educated enough cuz my mind ain't changedPlease actually educate yourself on the feats of the character you are arguing against before making such claims.
Except that they don't in this case and you have not raised a single valid point that proves Franklin to be more skilled than Luis, kid.Feats Prove otherwise, kid.
No one scales to Trevor's physical feats "LMFAO" he is literally stronger than Michael and Franklin put together what the **** are you sayingThey all scale to each other LMFAO, yeah Trevor is the strongest ofc, but they all perform similar feats in game
Yeah Frank Sniping Noose Choppers in "Threes company" as well. "Help" don't take that away. You have to be a skilled gunman to run with Michael and Trevor. Why do you think it matters so much who you pick for these heists? "Help" didn't save the guy with Lowest stats during the paleto job did it? No. In fact, Franklin took on the Army by himself in a bulldozer for a while, while everyone else was on the other side of town. In fact he shot down Merryweather Choppers by himself during the Merryweather heist while Mike was flying. What "Help"?
Most of the time when Franklin kills trained opponents he has help.
Also the crew members that can die in the paleto job literally only die because a car rammed into them and trapped them lmao that has nothing to do with skillMost of the time
If you genuinely think that killing a bunch of noose units in a tunnel where you have several means of taking cover is just as impressive as killing five times as many as well as taking out like three attack helicopters while on a slow-moving train with no means of taking cover then this is not worth my time and I am calling this debate quits this instance.In Fact Franklin Killed scores of Noose by himself during the big score in the tunnel, when he tells the other guy to get the gold, so dats nothing, bruh.
No, that's a fairly good feat, but unlike even basic Lost Mc members, those mobsters have no feats to their name. Also Franklin had a bit of help from them but he obviously did most of the work, but killing some normal street thugs isn't that great when compared to Luis.And Franklin didn't clear a whole construction site full of Mobsters? And Franklin doesn't kill scores of Ballas with Stretch and Lamar (inb4 "hELp" they aren't nearly as competent a gunman as Frank is) and shot down a Police chopper?
By that logic literally NOTHING in GTA is a great feat dude because pretty much every protagonist can do the same things in gameplay. That's just dumbAlso taking down scores of SWAT officers is not that big a feat In any GTA, as all characters can do that during regular gameplay
Sorry for being a secondary, as much as I'm interested in the verses themselves, I'm just going off of knowledgeable members's claims & my limited interpretation of the profiles. So if anyone can state where in the canon they get this info I'll happily side with such info. I also have the summer off so maybe I can see a full game play of the thing.Please actually educate yourself on the feats of the character you are arguing against before making such claims.
I showed you a clip of them all knocking each other out. Trevor is stronger than both of them, but not put together. Stop making shit up (Not trying to be rude) They have the same moveset, and perform the same thing in game. Trevor's ability is what helps him out the most.No one scales to Trevor's physical feats "LMFAO" he is literally stronger than Michael and Franklin put together what the **** are you saying
Yes it does. It has everything to do with Skill. Lester will flat tell you when you pick someone who sucks ass. Why do you think Packie never dies during any heist? They only die because they have low stats.Also the crew members that can die in the paleto job literally only die because a car rammed into them and trapped them lmao that has nothing to do with skill
Yes. No. Certain things, yes. Taking down a bunch of SWAT choppers on Train? Impressive. But is it wrong to say that literally every protagonist can do that? No. While some characters have better feats than others like CJ Single handedly sneaking through Area 69 and killing several soldiers.By that logic literally NOTHING in GTA is a great feat dude because pretty much every protagonist can do the same things in gameplay. That's just dumb
For example I could quite literally go on like every GTA game in regular gameplay and mimic this feat. And Honestly Frank took out Merryweather Choppers despite being have no means of cover as well. And while hanging off the cargobob's bay with the Door wide open.killing a bunch of noose units in a tunnel where you have several means of taking cover is just as impressive as killing five times as many as well as taking out like three attack helicopters while on a slow-moving train with no means of taking cover then this is not worth my time and I am calling this debate quits this instance.
Fair enough on the Mobsters, But Lost MC Members are regularly Killed By Franklin during the Car Scrapyard Missions.No, that's a fairly good feat, but unlike even basic Lost Mc members, those mobsters have no feats to their name. Also Franklin had a bit of help from them but he obviously did most of the work, but killing some normal street thugs isn't that great when compared to Luis.
Sometimes I wonder how it feels to say "stop making shit up" and immediately being corrected afterwards...I showed you a clip of them all knocking each other out. Trevor is stronger than both of them, but not put together. Stop making shit up (Not trying to be rude) They have the same moveset, and perform the same thing in game. Trevor's ability is what helps him out the most.
Damn bro I bet Norm Richards wishes that he was skilled enough to not get randomly crushed by a carYes it does. It has everything to do with Skill. Lester will flat tell you when you pick someone who sucks ass. Why do you think Packie never dies during any heist? They only die because they have low stats.
Yeah sure every GTA protag has killed cops at some point I'm not even trying to discredit that but it's incredibly stupid to go on and use stuff you can do in freeroam gameplay to justify that feat not being far more impressive than anything Franklin did. Hell, with the logic you use I could easily go on to say that Franklin's feats could easily be done by any other protagonist as well.Yes. No. Certain things, yes. Taking down a bunch of SWAT choppers on Train? Impressive. But is it wrong to say that literally every protagonist can do that? No. While some characters have better feats than others like CJ Single handedly sneaking through Area 69 and killing several soldiers.
But killing cops is one of the principles of GTA.
Dismissing this as dumb, is just, well dumb.
For example I could quite literally go on like every GTA game in regular gameplay and mimic this feat. And Honestly Frank took out Merryweather Choppers despite being have no means of cover as well. And while hanging off the cargobob's bay with the Door wide open.
The Lost Mc isn't what it used to be by the time GTA V takes place but that's still a pretty good feat. I'd say Luis' feat is a tad more impressive because he did it while the Lost Mc was at a better state however.Fair enough on the Mobsters, But Lost MC Members are regularly Killed By Franklin during the Car Scrapyard Missions.
You haven't corrected me.Sometimes I wonder how it feels to say "stop making shit up" and immediately being corrected afterwards...
This all refers to the start of the game. The more you play, the better you become. When you start as Franklin he's the best driver, Michael the best Shooter, and Trevor's the strongest and the best pilot.Regardless, no, Trevor is indeed a bit stronger than Michael and Franklin put together. See here.
21% of Michael's strength stat is maxed out and 49% of Franklin's. Together, they'd reach 70%.
Meanwhile, 79% of Trevor's strength stat is maxed out. He is stronger than the other two put together.
I bet he does.Damn bro I bet Norm Richards wishes that he was skilled enough to not get randomly crushed by a car
Then What's the point of you bringing that feat up in the first place? What you do in freeroam is okay to use because it's an accurate representation of what these characters are capable of.Yeah sure every GTA protag has killed cops at some point I'm not even trying to discredit that but it's incredibly stupid to go on and use stuff you can do in freeroam gameplay to justify that feat not being far more impressive than anything Franklin did
Yes and no. Killing a bunch cops? (Which is what you're giving to Luis) That can be attributed to everyone in series. It's what makes GTA GTA. Taking on a Private Military Company? That has to be Proven.Hell, with the logic you use I could easily go on to say that Franklin's feats could easily be done by any other protagonist as well.
Really hard disagree. Most of the feats they have to rate them comes from freeroam.You should really only consider stuff characters do in missions. Doing otherwise is nonsense.
The Lost MC might be a shell of it's former self, so I say that's fair enough. But I have to ask, So Luis taking out the lost is impressive, because they can fight off cops, even though we just came to the conclusion that each and every protagonist does this?The Lost Mc isn't what it used to be by the time GTA V takes place but that's still a pretty good feat. I'd say Luis' feat is a tad more impressive because he did it while the Lost Mc was at a better state however
Regardless, no, Trevor is indeed a bit stronger than Michael and Franklin put together. See here.
21% of Michael's strength stat is maxed out and 49% of Franklin's. Together, they'd reach 70%.
Meanwhile, 79% of Trevor's strength stat is maxed out. He is stronger than the other two put together.
You should really only consider stuff characters do in missions. Doing otherwise is nonsense
These two, for example. So Luis killing the Lost is impressive because they fought off cops in the final mission? Even though Johnny was there? And did most of the work?Most of the time when Franklin kills trained opponents he has help.
Except that they absolutely can? I suppose I should've phrased my initial statement differently, but there's no reason to disregard the statistics because that's straight up just information about the characters given to us by the game.Also, come on Dawg, lol.
U kno Deez 2 statements can't exist at the same time lmao.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, you seem to be contradicting yourself a lot.
Are you slow? I was only referring to the random bikers that keep further reinforcements from the police from entering the prison while Johnny shoots it up.These two, for example. So Luis killing the Lost is impressive because they fought off cops in the final mission? Even though Johnny was there? And did most of the work?
But Franklin Killing Merryweather, Military, IAA and FIB Agents isn't as impressive because Michael and Trevor were there with him?
Come on, bro.
Thanks captain obvious.This all refers to the start of the game. The more you play, the better you become. When you start as Franklin he's the best driver, Michael the best Shooter, and Trevor's the strongest and the best pilot.
"Stats are maintained for each individual protagonist"
It literally says that for the article you linked.
You can't be ******* serious.I bet he does.
Again, Luis did not just "kill a bunch of cops." He took down a plethora of armored noose units, including like three attack helicopters while on a slow-moving train. That is infinitely more impressive than killing a bunch of cops and attributing that to every protagonist because you can somewhat replicate that feat in freeroam is crazy.Yes and no. Killing a bunch cops? (Which is what you're giving to Luis) That can be attributed to everyone in series. It's what makes GTA GTA. Taking on a Private Military Company? That has to be Proven.
No. Every character has plenty of feats without freeroam and stuff the player can do in freeroam does not indicate the character they play as to be canonically able to do so.Really hard disagree. Most of the feats they have to rate them comes from freeroam.
Gameplay matters just as much.
I mean, Luis is >>> Lost Mc bikers while the Lost Mc was in its prime while Franklin is >>> Lost Mc bikers while the Lost Mc is a shadow of its former self.The Lost MC might be a shell of it's former self, so I say that's fair enough. But I have to ask, So Luis taking out the lost is impressive, because they can fight off cops, even though we just came to the conclusion that each and every protagonist does this?
The Vagos have been hitting the Lost pretty hard, Frank destroys them. The Ballas were fighting off some cops if I remember correctly in Hood Safari and Frank destroys them.
Sure Luis killed a bunch of the Lost MC when in they were in Their prime, but Franklin sniped a bunch of Mercenaries, who were directly compared to the Army in the same mission, all while they were shooting directly at him, and even brought down their chopper.
Except that they absolutely can? I suppose I should've phrased my initial statement differently, but there's no reason to disregard the statistics because that's straight up just information about the characters given to us by the game.
Also, please, learn to type in normal coherent english. "U kno deez" does not make you seem cooler.
Bingo. This is what I'm trying to tell you. LolExcept that they absolutely can? I suppose I should've phrased my initial statement differently, but there's no reason to disregard the statistics because that's straight up just information about the characters given to us by the game.
I hate when people do this. You clearly understand I'm saying anyway, I'm not typing like that to seem cooler lol. Come on, dude. I know you ain't 80 years old behind that screen.Also, please, learn to type in normal coherent english. "U kno deez" does not make you seem cooler.
Don't be meanAre you slow?
I know what you're talking about. But? I was only referring to the random bikers that keep further reinforcements from the police from entering the prison while Johnny shoots it up
Y wood u bring it up only to say it's less impressive for 1 character who took on more impressive opponents just cuz he wasn't the only 1 there? Despite the fact that he held off some soldiers on his own to get 2 Michael and Trevor.Franklin has some pretty good feats and I'll definitely admit that I missed a few things but some stuff is certainly slightly less impressive because he had help. That's just logical.
What's da gap with max stats. Cuz I know damn well it's not Trevor stronger than both of them 2gether.The strength stat generally doesn't change too drastically as long as you purely play through all the missions - the gap is still there.
Fax. I hate when people do that. You damn well know what I'm saying. Lol. Trying to seem smarter.I mean there's online dictionaries & Grammarly. You usually don't need any of these if you're an english native like me.
Then y is dat same dude able to die in a shootout in da FIB raid and da big score?Sure, the game punishes you for using a shitty gunman, but literally NOTHING about the situation was about the skill of the gunman. He just got crushed by a car, anybody could have had that happen to them.
Nah. It really ain't. Every game in the series has SWAT units. Every game has u killing a fuckton of them. It's nothing special. I'll Die on dat hill.Again, Luis did not just "kill a bunch of cops." He took down a plethora of armored noose units, including like three attack helicopters while on a slow-moving train. That is infinitely more impressive than killing a bunch of cops and attributing that to every protagonist because you can somewhat replicate that feat in freeroam is crazy.
That logic usually applies to characters who are so powerful that it's difficult 2 show. Like say, Kratos' or Dante.;No. Every character has plenty of feats without freeroam and stuff the player can do in freeroam does not indicate the character they play as to be canonically able to do so.
Johnny wuz there, bruh.Also the impressive part is that just two Lost Mc bikers can fend off armored police officers while significantly outnumbered, not just that they killed some cops.
No. The odds weren't stacked in his favor enough. He wasn't far away enough, as Merryweather were still lighting his ass up (perhaps a skill feat right there)Nice feat, but Franklin was wielding a sniper rifle while he was on a vantage point. The odds were a bit stacked in his favor. I'm definitely not calling the feat unimpressive though but I think it's certainly less impressive than Luis' train feat as well as him taking down the Bulgarin Bratva.
I mean, my understanding of your language is mid to mid-highFax. I hate when people do that. You damn well know what I'm saying. Lol. Trying to seem smarter.
I am not talking about the two (Terry and Clay) that went with Johnny. Right as those three enter the prison Johnny orders two random unnamed bikers to stay at the gate and keep anyone from leaving or entering the prison.U can't jus (I'll type like this more seeing as it annoys you lol) attribute that Lost feat to all of them, especially when those 2 lost dudes had help, from Johnny who did virtually all da work.
Johnny wuz there, bruh
I admitted that my initial statement was poorly worded, but you very much can have both. Again, the statistics are 100% usable - they are quite literally uncontradicted information about the characters.Bingo. This is what I'm trying to tell you. Lol
But no. U can't have both.
You're right about this and I'd like to apologize for my attitude.I hate when people do this. You clearly understand I'm saying anyway, I'm not typing like that to seem cooler lol. Come on, dude. I know you ain't 80 years old behind that screen.
Don't be mean
I meant to say that some feats where he had others assisting him are less impressive than they would have been if he did them entirely on his own. My bad.Y wood u bring it up only to say it's less impressive for 1 character who took on more impressive opponents just cuz he wasn't the only 1 there? Despite the fact that he held off some soldiers on his own to get 2 Michael and Trevor.
U can't jus (I'll type like this more seeing as it annoys you lol) attribute that Lost feat to all of them, especially when those 2 lost dudes had help, from Johnny who did virtually all da work.
And then go on 2 to say Frank's is less impressive.
Well, of course every protag is equal to each other in every way with max stats but that's clearly not canon lolWhat's da gap with max stats. Cuz I know damn well it's not Trevor stronger than both of them 2gether.
Don't the cheap gunmen only die from an explosion in the FIB raid, not in an shootout? Genuinely asking because I might be misremembering.Then y is dat same dude able to die in a shootout in da FIB raid and da big score?
He's the worst Gunman in the game and there's consequences for picking him.
None of that happens to anyone else, because they're skilled.
Like Packie for example, who proved himself numerous times in GTA 4
That is just ridiculously untrue and I don't feel like elaborating yet again.Nah. It really ain't. Every game in the series has SWAT units. Every game has u killing a fuckton of them. It's nothing special. I'll Die on dat hill.
Free roam is perfectly fine to use.
No, that logic applies to absolutely every character, not just absurdly powerful ones.That logic usually applies to characters who are so powerful that it's difficult 2 show. Like say, Kratos' or Dante.;
Not for a game more grounded in reality.
I have not once stated that him taking them all out is not a skill feat, it's just not quite as great as you are suggesting.No. The odds weren't stacked in his favor enough. He wasn't far away enough, as Merryweather were still lighting his ass up (perhaps a skill feat right there)
And the buzzard was right in his ******* face, Michael didn't think Frank could do it, Frank didn't think Frank could do it, lol he thought he was going to die.
Also this feat is honestly more impressive to me, Luis has an explosive AA12 to take out the NOOSE chopper. Franklin had a sniper rifle, and to take out the pilot. All while being shot at with missiles and such
That's pretty nice of you, but I was really just being a dick above - it's fine.I mean, my understanding of your language is mid to mid-highLOL. Though If members don't understand you enough you can follow my advice or...
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Anyways I just passed by & I am currently following the debates both of you are doingyum yum popcorn!. Someone's going to have to list the feats both characters did & when they did it in their respective canons on both debates.
Alright thenI'm not going to go back and forth on this. Most of the stuff you said isn't even worth a response, but I think I'm still going for one final response.
Yes Terry and Clay. I remember them now.am not talking about the two (Terry and Clay) that went with Johnny. Right as those three enter the prison Johnny orders two random unnamed bikers to stay at the gate and keep anyone from leaving or entering the prison.
Not really.I admitted that my initial statement was poorly worded, but you very much can have both. Again, the statistics are 100% usable - they are quite literally uncontradicted information about the characters
You're good no big dealYou're right about this and I'd like to apologize for my attitude.
How not? How's that not canon? Unlike certain stats like Mike being the best shot, Frank being the best Driver, and Trevor being the best pilot, everything is up to you. Strength and stealth and stamina and such have no indication of being non canonicalWell, of course every protag is equal to each other in every way with max stats but that's clearly not canon lol
Yes, but it's also entirely possible for them to die in a shootout.Don't the cheap gunmen only die from an explosion in the FIB raid, not in an shootout? Genuinely asking because I might be misremembering.
Irregardless? Irregardless isn't even a word (American Dad reference lol) But yeah, you can say that. The game states their accuracy and weapon choice level. And their's are piss poor.Irregardless, to a degree that could be attributed to the fact that the cheaper gunmen tend to have pretty abysmal health when compared to the more expensive ones. Though of course the more expensive ones like Gustavo, Packie and Chef are heaps and bounds above them in terms of skill.
No just absurdly powerful ones because you'd break the immersion of the game showing how powerful they truly are.No, that logic applies to absolutely every character, not just absurdly powerful ones
That's cuz the player killed him immediately. Skip to 10:25.He wasn't even being shot at in the video you sent, the pilot really just flew in front of him and did nothing lol.
Full of Mercs skilled enough to still tag him plenty of times while being quite far away.Frank's feat is certainly not more impressive because he really just had to take down a car full of Merryweather mercs at a time.
I was mostly just dicking around. I do speak like that and type like that IRL, but it was heavily exaggerated in this case lolI mean, my understanding of your language is mid to mid-highLOL. Though If members don't understand you enough you can follow my advice or...
Yes, it was two of them. I acknowledged that from the very start.Yes Terry and Clay. I remember them now.
They were killed by Trevor, rite?
And Honestly, it was still 2 of em lol.
It would be a bit more impressive if it was one guy. (See what I'm doing here?)
Why are you getting worked up over my initial wording, I already admitted it to be poor. You haven't really responded to my point itself.Not really.
You said only missons should be considered.
Why should the stats be considered if gameplay is invalid?
Nothing in the missons shows Trevor being stronger than Mike and Frank together.
Not that I disagree with the stats ofc.
Literally what indicates all three protagonists to have every statistics bar completely filled out when they are nowhere close at the start?How not? How's that not canon? Unlike certain stats like Mike being the best shot, Frank being the best Driver, and Trevor being the best pilot, everything is up to you. Strength and stealth and stamina and such have no indication of being non canonical
Really? I actually didn't know that. Thought you just mission fail if they die.Yes, but it's also entirely possible for them to die in a shootout.
Never really watched it hahaIrregardless? Irregardless isn't even a word (American Dad reference lol)
For starters, protagonists are genuinely threatened by a handgun during story sequences - you won't see them tanking a truck crashing into them anytime soon. And you also wouldn't see Franklin, someone repeatedly stated to be inexperienced taking out literal armies of soldiers on his own during a mission.No just absurdly powerful ones because you'd break the immersion of the game showing how powerful they truly are.
Not the case with tier 9 characters.
That pilot literally took a good bit to do something and then still missed every shot lmaoThat's cuz the player killed him immediately. Skip to 10:25.
Tagging him there isn't really that impressive because he didn't have any way to take cover.Full of Mercs skilled enough to still tag him plenty of times while being quite far away.
Honestly you should stop bringing it up. You keep trying to prop them up, while putting Frank down.Yes, it was two of them. I acknowledged that from the very start.
No you didn't word anything wrong, lolWhy are you getting worked up over my initial wording, I already admitted it to be poor. You haven't really responded to my point itself.
I think I'll go your route and say everyone Trevor one shots is weak and Featless.And, if you really wanna go that route you have Trevor one-shotting human beings multiple times as well as kicking a door open while Michael has overpowering an athletic dude with one arm and Franklin has nothing. Trevor's feats are far more impressive.
Huh? That's not what I'm arguing lolLiterally what indicates all three protagonists to have every statistics bar completely filled out when they are nowhere close at the start?
Combination of both. You can their stats when u select thenI'd still say that their super low health plays a huge role there, though it's definitely got a good bit to do with their skill.
Bruh I get killed with a handgun all the time when playing this game. I started a fight on Grove Street and got killed by one guy after he got the strap (pistol lol) That's not out of the ordinary.For starters, protagonists are genuinely threatened by a handgun during story sequences - you won't see them tanking a truck crashing into them anytime soon. And you also wouldn't see Franklin, someone repeatedly stated to be inexperienced taking out literal armies of soldiers on his own during a mission.
That's just this video, cuz I replayed this Misson for this debate and He shot me plenty of timesThat pilot literally took a good bit to do something and then still missed every shot lmao
He was still pretty far away. AlsoTagging him there isn't really that impressive because he didn't have any way to take cover.
U see this?impressive as killing five times as many as well as taking out like three attack helicopters while on a slow-moving train with no means of taking cover then this is not worth my time and I am calling this debate quits this instance.
I'm not even trying to imply that Lost Mc bikers are more skilled than Franklin.Honestly you should stop bringing it up. You keep trying to prop them up, while putting Frank down.
Despite them being virtually identical scenarios.
Even better, Like I've said before, Frank holds off the military on his own, on his way to me Mike and Trevor.
I meant to say that some feats where he had others assisting him are less impressive than they would have been if he did them entirely on his own. My bad.
Buzz off. I've corrected that statement already.No you didn't word anything wrong, lol
You straight up contradicted yourself.
Trevor also one-shot an athlete in his Mary-Ann mission-I think I'll go your route and say everyone Trevor one shots is weak and Featless.
Johnny? A washed up Junkie.
That one guy in that mission where you have save Michael? Featless.
Why Bring up Mike overpowering that swole dude on the boat if you're arguing in favor of the stats just to say it's more impressive than anything Frank's done?
Despite the fact that the stats say he's stronger from the start.
If you wanna go down that route and disregard the statistic which makes Franklin over twice as strong as Michael then Frank has no physical strength feats."Nothing in the missons shows Trevor being stronger than Mike and Frank together."
Huh? That's not what I'm arguing lol
What's da gap with max stats. Cuz I know damn well it's not Trevor stronger than both of them 2gether.
Well, of course every protag is equal to each other in every way with max stats but that's clearly not canon lol
How not? How's that not canon? Unlike certain stats like Mike being the best shot, Frank being the best Driver, and Trevor being the best pilot, everything is up to you. Strength and stealth and stamina and such have no indication of being non canonical
Yes and I've agreed with you on this.Combination of both. You can their stats when u select then
Well you probably didn't 1v1 that dude, right? Personally I find it pretty easy to take down pistol wielding when they are alone lolBruh I get killed with a handgun all the time when playing this game. I started a fight on Grove Street and got killed by one guy after he got the strap (pistol lol) That's not out of the ordinary.
Franklin's Skill and potential are frequently mentioned.
You would in GTA.
Nah I just found that stupidly funny lol. I also had a bit more trouble with that chopper back when I played that mission the first few timesThat's just this video, cuz I replayed this Misson for this debate and He shot me plenty of times
Lol dude, you're trying really hard to downplay
I'm not downplaying Franklin's feat. I'm just saying that it's not much of an accomplishment for the Merryweather mercs to be able to tag him if he can't take cover.He was still pretty far away. Also
U see this?
So do you agree it's strange for you downplay this?
So Frank had no means of cover. Luis had no means of cover. How is it more impressive for Luis? He shot Down choppers shooting at with a AA12. Franklin shot down a chopper shooting at him by killing the pilot with a sniper rifle.
Yeah, I know, I'm not saying you didI'm not even trying to imply that Lost Mc bikers are more skilled than Franklin.
I just feel like you're using this to brush off his feats.Of course the Lost Mc feat would be more impressive if it was just one biker fending them off, but the feat itself is still pretty good. Just like Franklin has plenty of good feats even if he had assistance a few times.
"Corrected" lol okay I'll leave you alone on thisBuzz off. I've corrected that statement already.
ActuallyYou've stated the following in an attempt to disregard the specifics of the strength
I'm not disregarding anything. I was using your logic against u. You kept saying thingsThen WHAT are you arguing?
Sometimes I whoop too much ass and I get jumped with pistols instead. Sometimes just 1 dude whips it out fast and blasts meWell you probably didn't 1v1 that dude, right? Personally I find it pretty easy to take down pistol wielding when they are alone lol
The very first time I played it, it ******* killed me. I tried to use deadeye. Only I forgot I wasn't playing Red dead lolNah I just found that stupidly funny lol. I also had a bit more trouble with that chopper back when I played that mission the first few times
This is true. He's not outright called unskilled, as Michael constantly tells him "you did good" but he does say in the madrazo mission where's Mike's wife got Piped, and his men come after you, he tells him his aim is all over the place, so you might have a small point.His inexperience has been mentioned a few times as well. At the beginning of the game he was also regarded as mostly unskilled by Michael if I recall correctly (though please note that I am not calling him unskilled by the end of the game).
Alright so I've got you convinced that it's a better feat than you originally thought.I actually think Franklin taking them down in spite of that makes the feat a good bit better
He was closer. But if you think about it, isn't it easier at close range to kill them? Especially with the spread of a shotgun that has explosive shells. Is it not more difficult to deal with highly trained soldiers directly shooting at you from a distance, all while being additionally shot at by a ******* chopper?Luis was closer to the noose units during his feat, that alone makes it more impressive to me, but Frank's feat is of course nothing to scoff at.
I'll admit that I can definitely see how it came across that way, especially at the start of the debate and I see how that was wrong.I just feel like you're using this to brush off his feats.
Those statistics aren't really contradicted by anything, though, which is why I think they are good to be used. More ridiculous stuff that's not supported by anything should not be used in my opinion.Actually
I'm not disregarding anything. I was using your logic against u. You kept saying things
such as "only missons should be used" and "gameplay is irrelevant" just to randomly go against that to post in game statistics.
I support the stats
Make your mind up, dog.
Off-topic but in both GTA IV and GTA V I love just getting in fistfights while in friend activities. Shame that Michael/Trevor/Franklin will immediately start blasting those that attack you lolSometimes I whoop too much ass and I get jumped with pistols instead. Sometimes just 1 dude whips it out fast and blasts me
Okay, that's relatable lmao. Still gotta play Read Dead soonThe very first time I played it, it ******* killed me. I tried to use deadeye. Only I forgot I wasn't playing Red dead lol
Yes, you have.Alright so I've got you convinced that it's a better feat than you originally thought.
I think it's kinda 50/50 on that. Like, it's obviously easier for Luis to hit them but they also have an easier time with hitting him.He was closer. But if you think about it, isn't it easier at close range to kill them? Especially with the spread of a shotgun that has explosive shells. Is it not more difficult to deal with highly trained soldiers directly shooting at you from a distance, all while being additionally shot at by a ******* chopper?
Luis' feat was impressive, sure, but dude had an AA12 with explosive shells, and close range. Franklin had a sniper rifle to take out buzzards and Mercs directly shooting at him
I think his feat is more impressive. Luis' feat is like something you'd see in of those 80's action movies which is badass and honestly why I think you think it's more impressive.
It's a bit more cinematic.
Alright, good to hear.I'll admit that I can definitely see how it came across that way, especially at the start of the debate and I see how that was wrong.
What else in gameplay is contradicted by someone? The cop rampages? How?Those statistics aren't really contradicted by anything, though, which is why I think they are good to be used. More ridiculous stuff that's not supported by anything should not be used in my opinion.
I honestly the think fistfights are more realistic to how the average guy fights in GTA which is something I like, and the knockouts are satisfying. But I like 4 more cuz it had more mechanics, block and disarm and shit like that. It's very difficult to disarm a knife in real life, and an NPC with a knife is very dangerous, and can be an insta Kill in V, so that's very realistic, while IV is more action hero like.Off-topic but in both GTA IV and GTA V I love just getting in fistfights while in friend activities. Shame that Michael/Trevor/Franklin will immediately start blasting those that attack you lol
You really should. Both of them.Okay, that's relatable lmao. Still gotta play Read Dead soon
I'm sure it's easier for him to hit them than vice versa. He had a Full auto explosive shotgun. The weapon significantly helped.I think it's kinda 50/50 on that. Like, it's obviously easier for Luis to hit them but they also have an easier time with hitting him.
Not sure. I honestly think Luis just has more instances of him doing shit on his own, which is why u think this. Which makes sense, cuz he's the sole protagonist in his game, unlike GTA V which has 3 playable protagonists.I feel like Luis taking down the Bulgarin Bratva, which should allow him to somewhat scale to Niko's skill feats definitely gives him a leg up when it comes to skill regardless.
It definitely isn't useless. All he has to do is take cover and like I said earlier he has hometurf, and could just shoot him self some space with a minigun. Or Fire at him with his rifles and throw bombs at the same, given he has 60 rounds mags and 100 round drum mags, That gives him more than enough time to take cover and healFranklin can regenerate from bullet wounds as long as he physically stands still and does not receive further damage. I really hope that I don't have to tell you how ridiculously useless that is here.
What else in gameplay is contradicted by someone? The cop rampages? How?
Does the game not have you escape, and mow them down numerous times during the story?
I'm not referring to being able to kill groups of cops, I explicitly talked about more ridiculous stuff that they didn't come close to doing in missions.More ridiculous stuff that's not supported by anything should not be used in my opinion.
Yee, I agree. I've had a lot of fun with fistfights in both games.I honestly the think fistfights are more realistic to how the average guy fights in GTA which is something I like, and the knockouts are satisfying. But I like 4 more cuz it had more mechanics, block and disarm and shit like that. It's very difficult to disarm a knife in real life, and an NPC with a knife is very dangerous, and can be an insta Kill in V, so that's very realistic, while IV is more action hero like.
I assume you are referring to the events in the chicken factory in the paleto score? If so, then I think this is one example where Michael and Trevor did do most of the work (although Franklin certainly didn't just do nothing). Y'know, Michael told him to stay behind him and all, they were playing it safe so that Franklin wouldn't die.Franklin even holding off the Military temporarily, is more impressive than anything Luis does. Or the numerous occasions of him taking out Merryweather. Or the time he killed a bunch of government agents in a burning building. Him singlehandedly saving Michael from the Triads Is just like that time Luis killed a bunch of them when Billy set them up (is that what happened? Haven't played TBOGT in a long time)
Luis definitely far outclasses Franklin in hand to hand combat, there's no maybe about that in my mind, but that is meaningless - both have several shotguns and other close-ranged weapons. H2H is irrelevant here.Him being more skilled I highly disagree with. Maybe in H2H (which does have a high chance of happening in this fight cuz it takes place at close range in Frank's house) but as a gunman no sir. I think Luis just has more individual fights because he's the only playable character, and Franklin less cuz he's not.
But during these he fights more dangerous people.
In fact he has more than one example of bringing down buzzards with a sniper. LikeHere @ 9:24. In which he's praised by Trevor. The video I showed you earlier. And the other approach. Well that one uses an LMG but still.
Franklin's got the quantity advantage by far but that can be just as much of a blessing as a curse. What's to say that he goes for the absolute best choice right away? Not sure about the short trips stuff, I really just recall Lamar and him initially only wielding a pistol.Frank's arsenal is much larger. And that's just single player. I believe he also has access to some of the online weapons as well when you play as him In the short trips, but I'm not entirely sure, but regardless, more weapons, and are modifiable like, scopes, grips, extended mags, drum mags, etc.
He's got home court advantage so it would be easier for him to rig the place with sticky bombs and proximity mines, as while as spam them while firing at Luis.
Meaningless, this is going to be a gunfight.So in short
*Physical AP advantage
At long range, yes. But honestly, the explosive shotgun is definitely better than Frank's shotguns and I feel like the golden smg can definitely hang with Franklin's best close-ranged firearms.*Better weapons
Valid advantage, no arguments there.*Hometurf
As covered earlier, I don't believe this to be true.*Fought more dangerous people
He is not going to regen from being blasted apart by the explosive shotgun. It's still anything but useful.Also Frank has Regen.
It definitely isn't useless. All he has to do is take cover and like I said earlier he has hometurf, and could just shoot him self some space with a minigun. Or Fire at him with his rifles and throw bombs at the same, given he has 60 rounds mags and 100 round drum mags, That gives him more than enough time to take cover and heal
He's a better fighter, generally has more solid feats and his best weapons are comparable if not superior to Frank's.Only thing Luis has going is that he's a better fighter.