Fortnite Continuity

[AyOgUyS]

- Yeah right because Marvel themselves have absolutely no idea what their Continuity is or how it works and all the statements they make apparently mean nothing and can just be ignored.

That's not what I said.

- And of course, Jim Lee (DC's CCO and Publisher) himself and Scott Snyder are so clueless on their own characters and their own Continuity to point where they can't even determine what is or isn't Canon to it.

That's not what I said.

- I'm telling you, if there were no author statements, you would be asking for them because they're the ones who wrote the material. But now you have the companies, creative team and writers telling you the same thing yet you are still not satisfied.

This isn't an argument. Even if its objectively true that my arguments are horrible and egregiously flawed, that doesn't suddenly indicate anything about Fortnite's canon.

- What is the point of Canon Crossovers if you cannot accept them as Canon despite the Authoritative figures telling us that it is Canon and takes place within the main Conitnuity?

This is meaningless.

 

[AyOgUyS]

I'm going to make one last post before I hop off for the time being.

The vast majority of scans in the OP are just promotional advertisements or statements from a few Marvel/DC writers that are not indicative of official canon.

I'm also 99% sure the Batman and Thor comic runs that OP uses as evidence to say Fortnite is canon to the mainline comics are one-off Elseworld stories that are not connected to the main narrative though admittedly I could be wrong about that.

Additionally if we treat the crossovers as canon we would HAVE to say that the Zero Point, Presence, and Divine Creator are the SAME being which is extremely nonsensical and explicitly violates our rules on Tier 0.

 

[PurposeDevine00]

No, what you listed was mostly just a bunch of meaningless promotional hype. Donny Cates isn't an absolute authority on Marvel Comics either.

I won't comment on Invincible and LEGO stuff, I'm not all that knowledgeable on them though I still highly doubt they are canon.

Not an indication that the crossover is canon or that DC and Fortnite share a cosmology.

How does this mean the crossover is canon, let alone that Fortnite and DC share a cosmology.

This is literally all meaningless promotional hype.

Isolated statements of a few writers for DC that consider the crossover to be canon are absolutely not an indication of a shared cosmology. Even taking these statements at face value doesn't indicate the crossover is canon on both sides and trying to cross scale the cosmologies or any characters is even more egregious.

Again, just meaningless promotional hype. It doesn't matter how much the crossover is advertised, that does not mean it is canon.

These do not indicate canonicity at all. Every crossover ever can be considered a combination of two worlds.

The story of Creation in Fortnite is that everything was made from the Zero Point. In DC, it's different. Simple as that.

There is no shared continuity.

The Zero Point being mysterious doesn't prove anything.

Batman has stated that many things are "outside of reality", "beyond the multiverse", and similar statements before. This doesn't prove anything.

No, this has not been agreed upon.

You should really do that now so that we can be sure you are not trying to scale Fortnite characters to egregiously high tiers like High 1-A.

No, what you listed was mostly just a bunch of meaningless promotional hype. Donny Cates isn't an absolute authority on Marvel Comics either.

I won't comment on Invincible and LEGO stuff, I'm not all that knowledgeable on them though I still highly doubt they are canon.

- You are proving my point. If only the author says its Canon, its a problem because he apparently doesn't have authority over his work or its impact (even though that is not how the comic book industry works at all).

- But if the Company itself says it, its apparently only promotional material and cannot be true at all. Because apparently everything they say is just for hype. because apparently statements cant be both promotional and true at the same time. Because apparently Companies are supposed to just stay silent and not say anything during an event that is special because it is driven by the fact it is canon because apparently anything they say during that is just hype and promo and not valid at all. And apparently everything is a promo window despite that not being how promo works.

- And even if the SVP, the EIC and the CCO involved all agree and state it is an authentic and Canon event, it doesn't matter because their word apparently means nothing at all despite being the highest authority in Creative Directory and Story. Righ right, it all makes sense.

- And I don't know if this is just me but, when I see something I am not knowledgeable in, I usually tell the other person that and not just assume they're wrong with no basis. Maybe its just me...

Not an indication that the crossover is canon or that DC and Fortnite share a cosmology.

- That is a introduction dude.

How does this mean the crossover is canon, let alone that Fortnite and DC share a cosmology.

- If you look at the format of the post, I introduce the material first then go over how its Canon. That is an introduction to the material involved.

This is literally all meaningless promotional hype.

- Right because you have absolute authority above Jim Lee and other DC creative team members to the point where you can just dismiss their statements about their own Continuity as just meaningless promotional hype.

Very nice argument dude.

Isolated statements of a few writers for DC that consider the crossover to be canon are absolutely not an indication of a shared cosmology. Even taking these statements at face value doesn't indicate the crossover is canon on both sides and trying to cross scale the cosmologies or any characters is even more egregious.

- Don't just gloss over them, adress them.

- And you realize this isn't just "a few DC writers", this is also by Jim Lee himself. he is the highest authority on DC dude.

- And again, "Even taking these statements at face value doesn't indicate the crossover is canon on both sides." Read their statements, they are telling its canon and takes place in the main Continuity.

Again, just meaningless promotional hype. It doesn't matter how much the crossover is advertised, that does not mean it is canon.

- Again, no reason given as to why that is the case and why both cannot be true at the same time. You're just throwing that word around and hoping it lands.

These do not indicate canonicity at all. Every crossover ever can be considered a combination of two worlds.

- I would agree except for the fact it is stated by Jim Lee himself and also because other crossovers are stated or shown to take place outside the main Continuity.

- Here, if you actually read the statements I posted you would know that the main driver for this Crossover was to tell an authentic Batman story in the main Continuity and have him use his detective skills in the World of Fortnite.

- They are literally yelling at your face that it is canon and takes place in the main Continuity.

The story of Creation in Fortnite is that everything was made from the Zero Point. In DC, it's different. Simple as that. There is no shared continuity.

- I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that Scott Snyder himself wrote The Zero Point to be source of everything and The Creator as well.

- That is the reason for this post; To find a solution that isn't just ignoring Authoritative figures regarding the two Cosmos.

The Zero Point being mysterious doesn't prove anything.

- No reason given as to why. If you're just going to keep sending messages with no reasoning then you are just taking spaces and getting nowhere. Provide reasoning.

- That was just a possible solution I came up with. My reasoning behind it is that since The Zero Point is a mystery, it would be excluded from the statements that would cause problems.

- This would allow for the two cosmos to co-exist with the bridger being the Tier 0.

Batman has stated that many things are "outside of reality", "beyond the multiverse", and similar statements before. This doesn't prove anything.

- Ok so what if he has before? what does that have to do with this? You're lack of providing reasoning is making it very hard to understand what you are trying to say.

- And yes, it does prove The Zero Point and its creation are outside the Multiverse, that much is clear so I don't know what you are talking about.

No, this has not been agreed upon.

- You might not agree but everyone else at DC fandom sure does.

- And this was another possible solution . It would be appreciated if you provided one (without ignoring authority for no reason).

You should really do that now so that we can be sure you are not trying to scale Fortnite characters to egregiously high tiers like High 1-A.

- I will later.

- What would even be the point to you? You've already made up your mind (no reason given) that they're not Canon so why does it even matter to you?

- Do you only care about gatekeeping the Tiers or do you actually care about Authenticity and what the actually creators and companies are saying is Canon to their storyline?

- If you actually care about being Authentic, we can continue. If you only care about the tiers while dismissing the truth about the Canon then I get it and we can drop this.

 

[PurposeDevine00]

If OP's proposals are to be accepted, we would have to say that the Zero Point, The Presence, and the Divine Creator are in actuality the same being or something similar which is obviously extremely illogical and would likely only make our scaling more egregiously nonsensical and inconsistent alongside causing canon and timeline issues. I firmly disagree with any attempt to scale Fortnite based off other verse's feats rather than their own feats within the game.

- There won't be two Tier 0s. The Divine Creator is distinct from The One Above All of Marvel's main continuity.

- This would only involve TOAA and Marvel's main Continuity as stated already.

- The Zero Point isn't Tier 0. The Presence is.

- "... causing canon and timeline issues." Like what? The events of Nexus War are literally explained in the comics themselves that way there is no Timeline or Canon issue.

- Its the same with the Batman comics with DC and Invincible and LEGO. I literally went over this in great details in the post.

- The only issue that was present was with the the Tier 0 but now that has seemingly been resolved. The Tier 0 would remain as it is and everything else would be its creation.

 

[PurposeDevine00]

Here's the thing

Mish mashing lore to force something to work with headcannon isn't the safest way to do things

And no, I'd fully be on board with your thing if Forknife never said Goku was the strongest. ***** goku, man.

Also going through so much effort to try to reconcile the conflicting lore of The Greater Omniverse being the same as Fortnites one being the same as well as trying to fit in the Zero Point without DC establishing it first

Is sort of like a total stranger whom you met a few times coming in your house, eating your food and sleeping in your bed without it putting the work at all because it's personality is completely different and it's stature is completely different too despite the interactions

Like an acquaintance overstaying their welcome, kind of


I know I may sound mean but I'm sorry but uh

goku bad
Conflicting scales
Conflicting lore
Headcanon welding
Conflicting with the verses Tier 0

Is all a massive no no in terms of scaling.

Here's the thing

Mish mashing lore to force something to work with headcannon isn't the safest way to do things

And no, I'd fully be on board with your thing if Forknife never said Goku was the strongest. ***** goku, man.

- Goku isn't the strongest man. we went over this.

Also going through so much effort to try to reconcile the conflicting lore of The Greater Omniverse being the same as Fortnites one being the same as well as trying to fit in the Zero Point without DC establishing it first

Is sort of like a total stranger whom you met a few times coming in your house, eating your food and sleeping in your bed without it putting the work at all because it's personality is completely different and it's stature is completely different too despite the interactions

Like an acquaintance overstaying their welcome, kind of

I know I may sound mean but I'm sorry but uh

- The thing is DC is the one who established it. Specifically, Scott Synder and Donald Mustard.

- In the comic itself, you can clearly see this.

- I'm not just trying to mish mash out of nowhere. This is something DC established with Donald and it would be just wrong for us to overlook it.

- It is not overstaying a welcome at all. It is a consistent thing and they interact whenever the companies want.

- Don't worry, it isn't mean. We are just trying to find a suitable solution that considers all the factors involved.

goku bad

Conflicting scales

Conflicting lore

Headcanon welding

Conflicting with the verses Tier 0

Is all a massive no no in terms of scaling.

- There are no conflicting scales and the Lore issue has been seemingly resolved.

- There is no head canon. All of this is based on the information that the companies AND the creative team have given us.

- The Creator would remain Tier 0.

- I would agree if it was a throw away Crossover that doesn't matter at all and happens elsewhere.

- Here, it's explicitly stated by the company, the creative team including both of the companies CCO over and over again that these events matter and that they did happen in Canon, in the main Continuity.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I'm also 99% sure the Batman and Thor comic runs that OP uses as evidence to say Fortnite is canon to the mainline comics are one-off Elseworld stories that are not connected to the main narrative though admittedly I could be wrong about that.

It's technically canon to Fortnite canonicity

• Batman/Fortnite (Batman/Fortnite: Zero Point and Batman/Fortnite: Foundation): (It's around C2S6 and C2S8, 1 and 2)
• Fortnite X Marvel: Zero War (In official game event (Collision), we can see two people was thrown into Zero Point, these two people was shown to be the Imagined and Geno in comics, and it was officially shown to be canon in C7S1 when Amie stated what happened to the Imagined. And it's was shown somethings that only explained in "Batman/Fortnite" comics)
• Nexus War: Thor (It was able to read it in game itself explain event of the Devourer of Worlds.)

I'm not with OP about the idea of making scales using Marvel/DC canonicity, but these comics is officially canon to Fortnite canonicity.

Edit: This CRT actually looks like making DC Animated series be canon to DC comics because Superboy-Prime was blasted into Superman The Animated Series universe, which it's was bad idea in this wiki.

 

[AyOgUyS]

I'm not going to address any comment of yours that is just you repeating things I have already addressed. I believe I have already explained why the OP does not provide sufficient evidence that Marvel and DC are canon to Fortnite.

- But if the Company itself says it, its apparently only promotional material and cannot be true at all. Because apparently everything they say is just for hype. because apparently statements cant be both promotional and true at the same time. Because apparently Companies are supposed to just stay silent and not say anything during an event that is special because it is driven by the fact it is canon because apparently anything they say during that is just hype and promo and not valid at all. And apparently everything is a promo window despite that not being how promo works.

None of Marvel's twitter posts in the OP explicitly state the crossover is canon.

- Right because you have absolute authority above Jim Lee and other DC creative team members to the point where you can just dismiss their statements about their own Continuity as just meaningless promotional hype.

Not an argument. Stop trying to make me appear bad. Provide new, clear evidence.

- And you realize this isn't just "a few DC writers", this is also by Jim Lee himself. he is the highest authority on DC dude.

Send the scan again please.

- Here, if you actually read the statements I posted you would know that the main driver for this Crossover was to tell an authentic Batman story in the main Continuity and have him use his detective skills in the World of Fortnite.

Yes, writers usually care about authentic portrayal of characters in big crossovers like these. However that is not an indication of canonicity.

- You might not agree but everyone else at DC fandom sure does.

It doesn't matter what other DC fans think. What matters is whether your arguments are sufficient and well constructed enough to convince the Versus Battles community, especially the staff, that your proposals are valid.

- And this was another possible solution . It would be appreciated if you provided one (without ignoring authority for no reason).

I'm not obligated to provide alternative solutions.

- I will later.

Ok.

- What would even be the point to you? You've already made up your mind (no reason given) that they're not Canon so why does it even matter to you?

- Do you only care about gatekeeping the Tiers or do you actually care about Authenticity and what the actually creators and companies are saying is Canon to their storyline?

- If you actually care about being Authentic, we can continue. If you only care about the tiers while dismissing the truth about the Canon then I get it and we can drop this.

None of these are actual arguments. Stop making these accusations and stop trying to make me appear bad.

 

[AyOgUyS]

- The Zero Point isn't Tier 0. The Presence is.

Are you not proposing that DC, Marvel, and Fortnite exist all within the same cosmology? If so, you'd somehow have 3 omniverse creators and multiple omniverses, which doesn't make any sense. You're proposing that DC, Marvel, and Fortnite are all part of one giga-omniverse, no? And this would result in nonsense like the Presence only creating part of creation.

- Don't worry, it isn't mean. We are just trying to find a suitable solution that considers all the factors involved.

The best solution is to treat everything as separate and scale Fortnite only by its own feats rather than leeching off Marvel and DC.

- There are no conflicting scales and the Lore issue has been seemingly resolved.

How so?

It's technically canon to Fortnite canonicity

• Batman/Fortnite (Batman/Fortnite: Zero Point and Batman/Fortnite: Foundation): (It's around C2S6 and C2S8, 1 and 2)
• Fortnite X Marvel: Zero War (In official game event (Collision), we can see two people was thrown into Zero Point, these two people was shown to be the Imagined and Geno in comics, and it was officially shown to be canon in C7S1 when Amie stated what happened to the Imagined. And it's was shown somethings that only explained in "Batman/Fortnite" comics)
• Nexus War: Thor (It was able to read it in game itself explain event of the Devourer of Worlds.)

I'm not with OP about the idea of making scales using Marvel/DC canonicity, but these comics is officially canon to Fortnite canonicity.

These comic lines are isolated one-offs separate from the mainline story though, no?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Btw i disagree with what OP says btw

• In Thor (2020) #2, after Galactus consumed the first planet, Beta Ray Bill appeared, attacked Galactus, and attempted to warn Thor about him.
• In Nexus War, Thor and Galactus were on their way to the second planet when their journey was interrupted by the appearance of the Rift. As a result, Galactus abandoned his mission of consuming the remaining four planets and instead focused on the Zero Point, prompting Thor to oppose him and attempt to stop him alongside the Avengers.

So this big contradiction between these comics whoever, even in issue 3, event keeps on fighting between Thor and Beta Ray Bill without shown any event for "rift appeared".

And about "canon to DC", it's making no sense btw, since in Fortnite lore, Zero Point is source of everything which is contradiction with DC lore

These comic lines are isolated one-offs separate from the mainline story though, no?

It's canon (only for Fortnite lore) according to Donald Mustard, Fortnite, and who we seen it in Fortnite canonicity, but it's bad idea for making it canon to also Marvel/DC, because of rules says.

 

[AyOgUyS]

It's canon (only for Fortnite lore) according to Donald Mustard, Fortnite, and who we seen it in Fortnite canonicity, but it's bad idea for making it canon to also Marvel/DC, because of rules says.

I can see that. We should still be careful about cross-scaling though.

So this big contradiction between these comics whoever, even in issue 3, event keeps on fighting between Thor and Beta Ray Bill without shown any event for "rift appeared".

And about "canon to DC", it's making no sense btw, since in Fortnite lore, Zero Point is source of everything which is contradiction with DC lore

Agreed, treating the cosmologies as being under one greater omniverse only creates nonsense and egregious inconsistencies.

 

[PurposeDevine00]

I'm not going to address any comment of yours that is just you repeating things I have already addressed. I believe I have already explained why the OP does not provide sufficient evidence that Marvel and DC are canon to Fortnite.

None of Marvel's twitter posts in the OP explicitly state the crossover is canon.

Not an argument. Stop trying to make me appear bad. Provide new, clear evidence.

Send the scan again please.

Yes, writers usually care about authentic portrayal of characters in big crossovers like these. However that is not an indication of canonicity.


It doesn't matter what other DC fans think. What matters is whether your arguments are sufficient and well constructed enough to convince the Versus Battles community, especially the staff, that your proposals are valid.

I'm not obligated to provide alternative solutions.

Ok.

None of these are actual arguments. Stop making these accusations and stop trying to make me appear bad.

I'm not going to address any comment of yours that is just you repeating things I have already addressed. I believe I have already explained why the OP does not provide sufficient evidence that Marvel and DC are canon to Fortnite.

- I am not going to address any comment of yours that is repeating things with no explanation as to why that is the case.

- I've also asked you multiple follow up questions but you have yet to answer any of them.

None of Marvel's twitter posts in the OP explicitly state the crossover is canon.

- The wiki defines Canon as: Canon is a term used to designate works that are generally accepted as the genuine work that apply to the fictional verse. The generally agreed-upon definition is that the work by the original author and creator of the fictional setting is Canonical, unless the author or the copyright holder declares otherwise.

- Before I even say anything, the original author of Thor (2020 - 2023) and Fortnite X Marvel - Nexus War: Thor (2020) #1 is Donny Cates. Marvel is the comic book publisher and distributor. They also own 100% of the Marvel elements inside of the comic. The comic was also made in partnership with Epic Games (the head lead being CCO Donald Mustard) who also own 100% of the Fortnite elements inside of the comic.

- This will begin to sound lawful but bare with me.

- Now, I want you to answer this question: Did the original author (Donny Cates) or the copyright holders (Marvel and Epic Games) declare that Fortnite X Marvel - Nexus War: Thor (2020) #1 isn't Canonical to their Continuities?

When it comes to deciding if a Crossover comic is Canon, the answer comes directly from who Legally owns the fictional setting.

- In the case of Thor (2020 - 2023) and Fortnite X Marvel - Nexus War: Thor (2020) #1, the decision came down to Marvel but specifically, the Editorial Leaders that act in partnership with Epic Games.

- The writer by himself cannot unilaterally declare something Canon to the main Marvel Comic Universe Continuity (legally and literally speaking). If Marvel's Editorial Leadership states: "This is outside the main comic Continuity and is just a fun side story," the writer has to agree to that before they even start writing the comic.

- In this specific case, Marvel's editorial leadership wanted them to be Canon. They asked Donny Cates to write the Crossover so that it would perfectly fit between the two specific panels of his main ongoing Thor (2020 - 2023) #4 series.

- Because he had the green light from the editorial leadership of Marvel Comics, Donny Cates was able to openly confirm to fans on Twitter stating: "Yes, It's the proper 616 Thor and Galactus from @NicKlein and I's Thor run. But then they go through a Dimensional Rift and into the World of FORTNITE. So, yes. This all really happened. Comics are fun and weird, y'all."

- You wouldn't be seeing this statement today if Marvel Comic's editorial leadership didn't approve and give him the green light. You'd be seeing lawsuits and a bunch of other legal troubles.

- Marvel (the publisher and distributor of the comic and they hold the rights to the Marvel elements) holds The Highest Authority to the Marvel Universe and its Continuities (legally and literally speaking).

- Marvel's Editor In Chief, C.B. Cebulski and the Marvel Editorial Team (and the Marvel Games Team) have the Final Absolute Say on what is Canon to the main Earth-616 comic Continuity.

- Marvel chose to make Nexus War Official Canon. They posted a statement on their website (multiple times) explicitly stating: "Set in Marvel Comics Continuity, the events of NEXUS WAR take place between the panels of THOR (2020) #4." Because the company owns 100% of the Marvel elements, their editors have the Legal AND Creative Authority to integrate Fortnite and its story into the Official Continuity of the main comic Universe. That much is clear and undeniable.

- Mark Basso explained the reason why is because of their creative talk with Epic Games where they saw just how naturally their stories crossover and connect and given that Donny Cates was currently working on his Thor series, they decided to make it Official Canon.

- And its not just with Donny Cates and his Thor series; As I already showed, Marvel approved and integrated this into multiple of their series including Wolverine and X-Factor.

- Whether or not you think the statements are "promotional material" is irrelevant because it is a legal and creative binding regardless of whether is serves as promo or not. To add on, they literally go out of their way to show you (only you) that it is not "meaningless material" for promo and hype by literally integrating it into their comic series as well.

- This will be the last time I address this "promotional" thing with you as you refused to explain how that is their only purpose or why they cant be true simultaneously.

- Epic Games (developed the comic in partnership with Marvel and they hold the rights to the Fortnite elements) holds The Highest Authority to the Fortnite Universe and its Continuity (legally and literally speaking).

- Donald Mustard has Absolute Authority over what is Canon to Fortnite's Lore and Universe. Just as Marvel decided the comics were Canon to their main comic Continuity, Epic Games decided the comics were also Canon to the main Fortnite Continuity and story.

- This was a joint Editorial Decree by everyone involved. Canonicity in a cross company event Requires A Mutual Legal and Creative Agreement between The Executives and The Officers of both companies.

- Marvel and Epic Games sat down in creative discussions to ensure that the storylines of both Universes crossed over naturally as stated multiple times already.

- This decision was not made by a single person; Marvel Editorial decreed it was Official Earth-616 comic Canon and Epic Games CCO Donald Mustard decreed it was Official Fortnite Canon.

- Because both Marvel and Epic Games shook hands on it, Fortnite is Officially a Canonical part of the main Marvel Comics Universe Continuity.

- These events Legally and Narratively took place within both Continuities!

- Again, this is last time I am going over this simple concept in great detail and if you fail to provide reasoning to your statements and interpretations, we can disengage.
- According to our wiki: The generally agreed upon definition is that the work by the original author and creator of the fictional setting is Canonical, unless the author or the copyright holder declares otherwise.

- The work is by the original author Donny Cates and involves Marvel and Epic Games who are the original creators and the copyright right holders of their respective fictional settings/characters.

- By our wiki, we shouldn't even be having this discussion right now because this should be automatically assumed Canonical given it involves the original author and the creators/copyright holders.

- But since I want to go an extra step, I provided you the deep breakdown as to why it is Canon.

- So now we have to answer the question: Did the author or the copyright holders declare otherwise, that is to say this work isn't Canon?

- The answer is No.

- They did quite literally the opposite. They sat down, talked, stood up and shook hands and agreed that their fictional settings will be Canonical to each other.

- Had that not been the case, you would be seeing a history of court cases and legal battles to this day.

End of Story.

Not an argument. Stop trying to make me appear bad. Provide new, clear evidence.

- I am not making you appear that, I am showing you how you sound. The evidence is new and as clear as day given you have not addressed any of it.

Send the scan again please.

- I literally attached a vidoe for you and multiple statements from him? what are you asking?

Yes, writers usually care about authentic portrayal of characters in big crossovers like these. However that is not an indication of canonicity.

- Said no writer ever. Most Crossovers are never set in the main Continuity which gives the writers room to do anything with them even if it goes against their main Continuity version.

- In this one, the main factor is that it is going to be different, it is going to be Canon and set in the main Continuity.

- Read through the articles I provided. I will not repeat these things again.

I'm not obligated to provide alternative solutions.

- That's fine, just don't act like you're the absolute authority or that you care about Authenticity. I mean what kind of person talks about "sufficient arguments that are well constructed enough to convince the Versus Battles community," while also choosing to ignore the words of the Authoritative figures of these franchises?

- I mean why do you even care about "convince the Versus Battles community," if you're just going to pick and chose when or not Authoritative information matters?

- You're happy to take it when its about scaling or Tier 0 or whatever but when it comes to Canonicity, it doesn't matter?

- When Scott Snyder writes something about Tier X this character or "this is how the DC Cosmology works," its all good But when he writes about how it connects to another Verse or how they're in the main Continuity, his words suddenly isn't authoritative enough?

- Why are you just picking and choosing in your favor with absolutely no justification given at all?

None of these are actual arguments. Stop making these accusations and stop trying to make me appear bad.

- That is just how what you're saying is. And those are questions you needed to answer if we are going to move on.

- What would be the point of growing a tree in non fertile soil with none of the needed elements when you know its not going to result in anything?

 

[Antvasima]

No. Absolutely not. Scaling from crossovers is definitely NOT allowed. Characters are almost always rescaled to each other for narrative purposes during them, and entire cosmologies should only be scaled from what has been defined within each separate verse itself.

We should preferably close this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Can we have a rule that stops Fortnite from making any cross-scaling already? This is the secord or third time someone is trying that.

That seems like a good idea, yes. I strongly support that.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

That seems like a good idea, yes. I strongly support that.

Honestly, this is only thread that suggests making the entire DC and Marvel be part of Fortnite continuity

 

[Antvasima]

No, there have been at least another attempt to cross-scale cosmologies to Fortnite that I noticed.

 

[Mythic381]

Honestly, this is only thread that suggests making the entire DC and Marvel be part of Fortnite continuity

Pretty sure this one did it too.

Fortnite | The Strongest Verse of Today (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT /srs)

Hi, I've been talking about Fortnite revisions for a while, and if you've been paying attention I make light jokes here and there about Tier 1 or 0 Fortnite... Yeah, it's kind of not a joke anymore, this verse is insane. This CRT aims to accomplish a few things, Most important of which is a...

vsbattles.com

 

[PurposeDevine00]

- In big franchises like Marvel and DC, how exactly do we determine what work/comic is or isn't Canon?

- Is it whether or not it is published and distributed by the company? Is it whether or not it has the company's IP elements? Is it whether or not the Editor In Chief was involved? What factor(s) is used to determine this?

- Here is an example with Marvel: In Black Panther (1998) #8 written by Christopher Priest, Thor was knocked out and had his skin pierced by a shot from a regular rifle. This comic is considered Canon.

- In Chaos War (2010) #5 written by Greg Pak and Fred Van Lente, Thor and others were able to harm the Chaos King who is considered 1-A. This comic is considered Canon.

- So the issue regarding Canonicity doesn't seem to be with inconsistent showings of power. Both of these were obviously written by different authors and at different periods of time, edited by different editors but were still obviously published and distributed by Marvel.

- So as shown above and in other instances within these franchises, comics can be treated as canon despite clearly conflicting showings of power. These companies are obviously more interested in entertaining the readers through storytelling than in accurate showings of power but that is not the point here.


- In contrast, this situation with Fortnite doesn't have anything to do with inconsistent showings of power. Its explained in the comics that they are nerfed of their supernatural powers and level on the island hence why there is no trying to scale these other characters to the full extent of these Marvel and DC characters.

- The point I am trying to bring attention to is: whether we (the wiki) determine a work as Canon based on whether it is created by the same author(s), same copyright holder(s), published/distributed by the same company or whether it follows the wiki's purpose of accurately indexing the statistics of characters or by some other different factor(s) not listed.

- If it is because of the first three factors, then do the authors/copyright holders/publishing and distribution company have to state every time that "this work is Canon to this and they take place within the same Continuity" or is this something that can be automatically assumed to be the case (the wiki: the generally agreed upon definition is that the work by the original author and creator of the fictional setting is Canonical, unless the author or the copyright holder declares otherwise).

- Marvel, DC and the authors obviously don't state that every time they create and release a comic, so it would be very unrealistic to expect that of them unless of course they go out of their way to do so or if it is a special event they chose to. If that was a requirement, majority of the comics would affected because of the obvious lack of direct Canonicity statement.

- Outside of direct statements, what else can be used to determine whether a work is Canon or not and within the same Continuity? Assuming it is the same copyright holder and publishing/distribution company; If the work/comic itself by this author shows/mentions events from another comic by a different author, would the first comic be considered Canon to the second one and vice versa and be within the same Continuity?

- What if the author of both was the same person? Would that even be enough or would it not matter at all?

- The reason I mention this is because this is generally how comics in Marvel and DC are handled especially with the team runs like Justice League or Avengers. The team comic run would show/mention this event from this member's solo run and/or vice versa as a tie in or as a continuation of the story. This is also obviously assuming it's not directly stated by the figures I mentioned or within the comics themselves.

- I already went over this in my previous message but there is obviously Legality involved in this. The company/copyright holder owns 100% of the IP, its elements and the work. In the comic book industry, especially with Marvel and DC, majority, if not all of the writers are Work for Hire (which is a copyright law exception where the employer is legally considered the author and owner of the intellectual property).

- In application, this usually means a writer is hired or takes a job at these companies and 100% of the work that they produce/write belongs to the company. The company, here, the Editorial Leadership, gets to decide anything they want to do with the work and its application. They are the ones who determine the big picture and give the green light to the author and the rest of the creative team regarding the work and its status. The author still obviously has his own rights surrounding it (this is contract dependent) but the work and it's application belong to the company.

- The point I'm trying to bring attention to is that: this is as much of a Legal situation/agreement as it is a Creative one. This is treated very seriously in the comic book industry (or anywhere for that matter) and there have been lawsuits and legal battles regarding this.


- If we determine a work as Canon based on whether it is follows the wiki's purpose of accurately indexing the statistics of characters, then how do we view the other listed factors and their purpose?

- For example: If an author states that this work of his (x) is Canon to this other work of his [y] and that he wrote them to be within the same Continuity, but by wiki purposes, accepting them would fluctuate the statistics of this work (x) of his, would it or would it not be accepted?

- And if it is not accepted, how do we view the author's statement? Given the author's authority, do we say that their statement does not exist or do we say that it is invalid/meaningless/inapplicable just because it fluctuates one of his work's statistics?

- On top of that, if it was the copyright holder and publishing/distribution company behind the author's work that stated that this work (x) is Canon and within the same Continuity as the other work [y], would it or would it not still be accepted?

- And if it is not accepted, how do we view the copyright holder/publishing/distribution company's statement? Given their Editorial Authority which includes the fact that they Legally and Literally own 100% of the IPs and the elements involved, would we say that their statement does not exist or would we say that it is invalid/meaningless/inapplicable just because it fluctuates one of their own work's statistics?

- Where does the wiki rank the Legal and Creative Decrees in terms of importance and authority when it comes to it's purpose of accurately indexing the statistics of characters.

- Would ignoring/dismissing/invalidating those statements from the author and the copyright holder/publishing/distribution company count towards the purpose of Accurately indexing the statistics of characters or would it not go entirely against that principle?

- And under what system does the wiki determine that the statements by the author and the copyright holder/publishing/distribution company are completely meaningless/invalid?

- And what if there were no unproven/unexplained fluctuations in power? What if they were proven inside the works themselves? Or would that be as meaningless as what the author and the copyright holder themselves have to say about it?

- Lastly, does this system of measurement apply to all authors, all copyright holders and franchises within the wiki or does it only apply to specific ones?

 

[Xdsagecat]

No. Absolutely not. Scaling from crossovers is definitely NOT allowed. Characters are almost always rescaled to each other for narrative purposes during them, and entire cosmologies should only be scaled from what has been defined within each separate verse itself.

We should preferably close this thread.

I don't even 100% agree but If we ignore what the authors/writers say we might as well ignore the comics they write.

 

[Xdsagecat]

"I don't like x character/verse therefore any scaling of them is banned"

 

[Antvasima]

We should not allow cross-scaling between entirely different verses and cosmologies in general. It is not just a principle for Fortnite alone, and given how many different franchises it has crossed over with, we would locially have to scale all of them to each other as a consequence, and I would not look forward to tier 0 South Park and Simpsons, for example. No amount of wall of text word sallad is going to change that verdict. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now closed this thread. Do not reopen it or pester me or other staff members about it please.