Flash & Garou upgrade

[Ryukama]

Yes it would be. If Tatsumaki can't effortlessly kill someone who's confirmed to be weaker than a High 6-C or even harm him that significantly. Then there's no way is she restraining a High 6-A/5-B right after while arguably less powerful.

And if you say Tatsumaki didn't use full power against Ogon yet did with Garou, then how do Kuroi and Garou scale to each other?

You can't use "he overpowered TK that restrained Garou" as an argument when you also say the TK she used on Ogon isn't the same magnitude as what she used on Garou.

 

[Quangotjokes]

City level Golden sperm i guess...

 

[Ryukama]

Nah At least Mountain level. He is one of the strongest monsters and much stronger than Bang like you said.

I would like to see what others have to say about my suggestions as well though.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ok so Kuroi will be Downgraded to At least 7-A and Orochi will be Downgraded to At least 7-A likely Higher?

If that's all then this thread seems finished.

 

[Ryukama]

Those would be my suggestions. But again I don't want to make changes without other input as well.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Alright then.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Being completely honest, I'm not even sure why Kuroi Seishi is High 6-C. I've read the translation of ONE's statement. It's never said he'd give full power Tatsumaki difficulty. Rather that she'd just win.

You mean an alternate translation to the Raw? Because this

> ONE: Tatsumaki in her best shape could've defeated Golden Sperm. Golden Sperm is equally strong as ossan (main protagonist from makai no ossan). Tatsumaki > Normal Mob, if he gets serious, there's no answer.

Doesn't sound like she stomps him to me. If only because "could've" is a less restrictive word than "would've".

I guess it could've been translated wrong. Here's the raw

http://i.imgur.com/O9wGaPm.jpg

The line about Golden Sperm and Tornado should be under the 187 number for King's height. If anyone can read/translate Japanese.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I too would like if we could get an exact translation. Tatsumaki is clearly above Golden Sperm, but ONE's comment uses language that seems to suggest an actual fight when coupled with the fact Tatsumaki explicitly references GS among the only three people she couldn't bend (Saitama and Garou being the others).

 

[Ryukama]

It seems more like getting picky with semantics than anything. "Could've" can simply mean she has the capability of defeating him. If someone says "Saitama could beat Genos" are they implying Genos would actually put up a fight against him?

I know this example isn't that extreme or anything. However the point is still that ONE's statement does not actually indicate that Ogon can put up that good of a fight with full power Tatsumaki. Or at least there isn't direct evidence that it does. We really don't know how good of a fight he'd put against her at full power. But in such a case we wouldn't assume they scale without evidence.

How does Ogon resisting her one of her hax, which is explained to be done through sufficiently high will power, indicate that Ogon is as strong as her at full power?

 

[Ryukama]

It's whatever. But I don't like the idea of rating a guy who has never geniunely shown to be High 6-C as High 6-C simply because "ONE said a High 6-C could beat him" and we're going to assume the word could in that sentence means Kuroi would put up a good fight with said High 6-C despite nothing really suggesting such. It seems very shakey to me.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well, here's the full sentence in Japanese "Òé┐ÒâäÒâ×Òé¡Òüîõ©çÕà¿Òü¬ÒéëÚ╗äÚçæþ▓¥Õ¡ÉÒü½ÕïØÒüªÒéï" for translation purposes. Plus, we do rate Monster Garo(u) as 6A/5B based on the ONE statement about him and Boros having a good fight.

 

[Ryukama]

Plus, we do rate Monster Garo(u) as 6A/5B based on the ONE statement about him and Boros having a good fight.

That's because ONE directly says Garou and Boros would have a good fight. He doesn't say "Boros could defeat Garou" only for us to then extrapolate "could" into meaning "Garou would have a good fight with Boros."

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

How does Kuroi resisting her one of her hax, which is explained to be done through sufficiently high will power, indicate that Kuroi is as strong as her at full power?

Nothing indicates he's exactly as strong as her. I don't think anyone said that. What it does suggest though is that he's in a different league compared to most other Dragon level monsters. Tatsumaki is like the Hero Association's tactical nuke. They send her in when something needs to be dead, and we see her accidentally kill Dragon level threats. GS is among the only three things she's met so far that she couldn't bend.

Now yes, Fubuki says strength of will is directly connected to psychic resistance, but she does not say strength of will is the sole factor. Otherwise, someone like Mumen Rider could be immune to Tatsumaki's powers via sheer determination.

Basically, GS likely had some resistance due to force of will, but I don't think he'd have been of note to Tatsumaki if he was really that weak compared to her.

 

[Ryukama]

I agree Ogon is far superior to other Dragons. That only makes him At least 7-A unless we get actual feats of him being higher tiers.

So because you don't think it's likely Mumen Rider could resist the hax, that means that the hax now also needs a certain level of strength to negate? Despite the fact that the direct explanation given for resisting it is having high willpower and it isn't stated that you need to be of a certain level of strength to resist it. Why couldn't these guys also simply just have higher willpower than Mumen Rider?

Basically Ogon gets a High 6-C rating because "ONE said Tatsumaki could beat her. Let's assume the word could means that he'd put up a good fight" and "He resisted a hax ability that's directly stated to be negated through high willpower. But let's assume that resisting it is also a strength feat despite this not being stated or suggested."

I'm sorry but I do not like these reasonings personally.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"I agree Kuroi is far superior to other Dragons. That only makes him At least 7-A unless we get actual feats of him being higher tiers."

I agree with this. I never said he should get straight High 6-C. Just that him vs Tatsumaki should be acknowledged.

"Why couldn't these guys also simply have higher willpower than Mumen Rider?"

Saitama and Garou definitely could. Though I would be extremely skeptical about GS, especially considering we see him do things like go into hiding after losing most of his regens, or hanging around Saitama for fear of being found and killed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah it's a stretch and unlike Boros he doesn't do something explicitly better than Tornado (like causing more damage to the ship than her).

___

Well I tried to do a kanji by kanji translation

Òé┐ÒâäÒâ×Òé¡ = Tornado

Òüî = Possession

õ©çÕà¿ = Perfection/Flawless

Òü¬Òéë = "If" basically

Ú╗äÚçæþ▓¥Õ¡É = Golden Sperm

Òü½ = No idea in this context

ÕïØ = Win

ÒüªÒéï = Continuation of the previous action

So "If Tornado was flawless, Golden Sperm would win"? Sounds.... off. Is there anyone here that speaks/reads Japanese?

 

[Ryukama]

"I agree with this. I never said he should get straight High 6-C. Just that him vs Tatsumaki should be acknowledged."

So you're fine with him being rated as "At least 7-A"?

"Saitama and Garou definitely could. Though I would be extremely skeptical about GS, especially considering we see him do things like go into hiding after losing most of his regens, or hanging around Saitama for fear of being found and killed."

I agree that it seems odd. Though if strength of willpower is directly said to be what can negate the power. And Ogon can negate it. That indicates he indeed as a pretty high willpower. Regardless of not thinking Mumen Rider can negate it and thinking he has better willpower. Also Garou kinda lost all his willpower when he found out he can't beat Saitama and let others beat him up. It seems like your willpower doesn't need to be "infallible" to negate this.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So you're fine with him being rated as "At least 7-A"?

I think "At least 7-A, possibly higher" is most accurate due to how small 7-A is, but yeah.

 

[Ryukama]

Alright. I'll change his rating to that then.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I agree with that. Plus, who knows. Maybe he'll get a 6-C feat in the redraw.

 

[Ryukama]

I guess this is concluded then.