I couldn't sleep and I have a crippling soda addiction so I decided to knock this out at 1AM. I tried to keep this unbiased, though MG supporters are free to add more context if I missed any. That said, I excluded things which weren't really pertinent to the discussion at hand, so some previously posted scans will be missing.
Order as a Type 1 Concept
To begin, I accept that
Jerga's order - that of the hatred of demons - is type 1.
@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless explained it very well in
this post, so I won't contest it. However, the issue starts with attempting to scale all other instances of order to Jerga. Jerga's whole deal is very unique, considering he isn't like other gods in that he is/is the embodiment of order; Rather, he had to turn his own source into order, which is something no other character does. This makes scaling the orders of other gods to Jerga's order very questionable, since his order was created under special circumstances.
There are then two arguments that run counter to that. The first is this statement, which is that Jerga's order was
second only to that of the gods, implying gods' orders are superior in some way. There is also a statement that
Jerga had become a shard of the world's order, implying that his type 1 concept was only a fragment of a greater concept. The first statement is quite vague; We do not know how or why Jerga's order is inferior, so it's difficult to infer that this can be translated to "Jerga's order is type 1, and gods' orders are superior, so they have to be type 1 too". The second scan is odd, since it isn't saying that Jerga's order is a fragment of a greater order, just that Jerga's magic had become a fragment of the order of the world (which is Jerga's source).
In short, it is the OP's belief that the two statements comparing Jerga's order indicate all other order is superior to a type 1 concept, while I believe both statements should not be used in this way as they do not elaborate on the nature of the superiority. Thus, in my opinion it would be best to index each individual order separately, rather than attempting to generalize all of them.
Order as Fate
The OP originally proposed fate manipulation as an extension order because of
this, where order is equated with providence. The OP also said they'd remove this part from the original proposals, but they still haven't done that?
There is also the repeated idea that gods control the fates of those below them, as shown
here and
here. The scans speak for themselves, I think, so there's not much I can add here.
Finally, it is stated that when Abernyu died, the order of destruction fell alongside her. This
caused destruction itself to halt, preventing those who should have died from dying, and those who should've fallen to ruin survived. The idea here is that, because these people were destined to die, and that the alteration of order changed their fate, order should constitute fate manipulation.
My issues are as follows. First is that "providence" just refers to divine protection, not any sort of manipulation of fate.
Secondly, I'll start with the second batch of scans. These mostly state that the order of the gods is the absolute, unchangeable force. While that may support fate manipulation, they fit law manipulation equally well, so from my perspective it seems more like it's talking about the laws gods impose on the world. The first scan is definitely fate manipulation, but the big issue is that at no point does it say that order and fate are the same thing, just that gods control fate.
For the final part, it's a simple matter of the concept of destruction ceasing, thereby preventing things from being destroyed. This is not fate manipulation, it's more akin to someone dropping a plate and then "changing the future" by not being able to eat off the plate after the fact. If a concept doesn't exist, then the things relying on that concept will not work, extending into the future, though this is by no means controlling fate.
I'm also aware that Dereck has posted
scans debunking this point. However, these come from the web novel version of Maou Gakuin, and as the page currently indexed is exclusively for the light novel version, those scans should not be used.
Power Modification
This hasn't been discussed at all, so no defense from the OP has been made. In
this scan, Anos was able to make the order of destruction his own, by taking the power leaking from Abernyu and creating Venuzdonoa with it. The issue is, Abernyu is
dead, so this is more like taking an ambient magical phenomena and manipulating it, not modifying someone else's power.
Resisting Order via Resisting Time Stop
In
these scans, Anos is able to resist Ivis' time stop. The argument from the OP is that, since Ivis utilises the order of time, then Anos would have to be resisting the effects of order as well (granting resistance to CM1/2, fate hax, law hax, and so on). This is further supported by the statement that Ivis created a new world where time is frozen, implying the institution of a new reality with differing laws, and Anos was able to resist the laws being imposed on him.
My contentions are twofold. For the latter, it is a common turn of phrase to say a time stop creates a "world where time has frozen" (even
my own verse does this, for example). This is not intended as a way of saying a new reality with different laws was created, so it shouldn't really apply here. Of course, it isn't really a "world" at all, just
a bubble shaped AoE. The former is more complicated, since we don't typically give resistances to the mechanisms of a power source, rather, we give resistances based on the actual applications of the power source. For example, characters in Guilty Gear and Digimon use information manipulation as a basis for magic, but not every character who resists a magical attack also resists information manipulation. Or for another example, characters in Touhou
(please do not derail this thread talking about Touhou again, this is just an example) create attacks by giving concepts to them, but that doesn't mean every character who resists a regular attack would resist concept manipulation.
So this would only be resistance to time stop, and not resistance to order, since order is just a mechanism through which the time stop is used. By the way, as a side note, Anos currently has resistance to law manipulation and CM1 based on this:
Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1. Can resist abilities that stems purely from Order)
If the above logic is rejected, this would need to be removed from his profile.
